Rams Expecting A Little "Jack" To Stay In St. Louis
Reaction to Friday morning's news that the St. Louis Rams would be playing one of their home games in London in each of the next three seasons was mixed. For many, the news stoked fears about the possibility of the Rams packing up and moving after the 2014 season.
Fans in St. Louis wanted some assurance about the future of their team, more than they wanted games in the UK and even more than they wanted the team to hire Jeff Fisher. Unfortunately, there wasn't much in the way of assurance that Stan Kroenke or Kevin Demoff or anyone with the Rams could provide. As we pointed out yesterday, the franchise, the CVC, the city and others are involved in a fairly sensitive negotiation, a negotiation with hundreds of millions of dollars at stake.
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Lost in the noise of reaction and demands for meaningless guarantees, Kroenke and the Rams dropped a few breadcrumbs hinting at their position in the upcoming negotiations. What they said falls short of an assurance, but it did signal that they expect to engage the city of St. Louis and Missouri's other public entities in a serious dialog around the stadium issue. It also sounded like the Rams have some expectations for assistance from the public coffers.
"We are committed to try and find a way to get the lease situation fixed, and we're excited about what the city's going to propose in February and where we can go, then we'll start to move forward," Rams COO Kevin Demoff said on KNFS radio.
You can read into that whatever you want. As we've said before, there really isn't much the Rams or the city or the CVC can say as far as specifics. They are signaling an intention to negotiate in good faith. That's just my opinion, but it does match what the Rams have done in terms of reaching expanding their footprint in the community. In the last three years, the Rams have stepped up their presence in the charitable community. Stuck with a faulty on-field product, the franchise worked with corporate partners to buy up tickets, or bought remaining tickets themselves, to make sure games were not blacked out. And, you may have noticed they just agreed to a five-year, $35 million contract to hire the Jeff Fisher, an experienced, established head coach to turn around a team whose glory days have been replaced by a reputation as a glorified practice squad for the league's other 31 teams.
That's a pretty substantial effort to build goodwill with fans. Of course, it won't matter if the team keeps losing games, and they've acknowledged as much. From Demoff's KNFS interview:
The best way to expand our footprint in St. Louis is to win games, become a better organization and to solve the lease situation, that's the best way to expand our footprint in St. Louis. And, we need to figure out ways to continue to increase our revenue, increase our viability and things like this make us a greater player across the league.
Good faith aside, there's still a leverage game to be played around stadium negotiations. The London games are most certainly an attempt to strengthen the Rams' brand. It's hard to overlook the insinuation that it also gives the team a little bargaining power in those negotiations.
Upgrading the Dome to the vaguely defined "top tier" or building another facility in the area is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars. The CVC doesn't have that kind of money. The City of St. Louis doesn't have that kind of money. To get the kind of public money needed for a project like that, it's going to take those two entities as well as the state government.
Statements from Kroenke and Demoff make it pretty clear that the team envisions something more than just a football stadium, something that can bring other events into town and the economic benefits associated with those kind of events.
From the same interview:
Look, we talk for three years every time the lease questions come up; we need to find a great solution for St. Louis. People look at us as the ones driving the ship, but I look at this as a bigger issue for St. Louis. What happens to Mizzou-Illinois? We want to get Final Fours back, we want to get Frozen Fours back, we want to compete for FIFA soccer events during the World Cup, we want to be able to host a bowl game, we want to be able to do a lot of things in the Edward Jones Dome, and we want a building that works for St. Louis 365 days a year, not just the nine or ten times a year that we play at the Edward Jones Dome.
... we need to get a building that is competitive in the Midwest for events and that can put St. Louis on the map. When you see Kenny Chesney concerts going to Kansas City instead of St. Louis, when you see FIFA soccer going to Kansas City and Chicago, when you see a Super bowl in Indianapolis and when you see a Final Four in Indianapolis, all of those things, there is no reason that St. Louis shouldn't be as competitive with Kansas City and Indianapolis and some of those places. And that's how we view this, because that is what's best for St. Louis; it's not just about us.
The NFL makes money everywhere it goes thanks to a smart economic structure. Jacksonville, Green Bay ... St. Louis can all host profitable franchises. Stadiums, of course, make those franchises even more profitable for owners and shareholders. You can argue the relative economic benefits of a stadium, but consistently bringing in Super Bowls, concerts and other major year-round events do positively impact a city's economy.
And because of that, the Rams sure make it sound as though they expect the elected officials to play ball. Nobody understands that game as well as Kroenke. He's a pretty big political donor, and his model for suburban property development relies heavily on friendly political environments, e.g. tax breaks, abatements, public infrastructure, etc. It's a model that applies to building a Wal-Mart Super Center just as well as a stadium. Stadiums just require a little more concentrated contribution from the public.
They can likely get some contributions from the NFL's reconfigured stadium construction loan program as well to sweeten the pot for the politicians by holding it out as "matching" money.
Of course, the LA talk will remain. Having an open invitation to move to SoCal only helps the Rams in negotiations.
There's a big political debate to be had around using public resources for projects like this. I'm purposefully skirting that, for now, because it has nothing to do with my larger point here. The Rams aren't tipping their hand about negotiations, but it's clear that they do intended to negotiate rather than just entrench themselves for three years until they can beat feet for Los Angeles. They could easily do that given the "top tier" requirements that would allow them to flee.
Kroenke distilled it down to pretty simple terms in his remarks during Tuesday's press conference to introduce Jeff Fisher.
As I said earlier, I started in St. Louis, in one year from now, that will be 20 years, so I've been around here a long time. Contrary to a lot of reports, I haven't taken a lot of ‘jack' out of the market. I think that's what's reported. I have put a lot of ‘jack' into the market.
The Rams are likely to stick around St. Louis, but they'll be expecting some "jack" to do so.
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why do billionaire owners expect tax payers to help line their pockets?
(Honest question)
http://brotherspork.wordpress.com/
by Infemous on Jan 22, 2012 10:18 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I guess that is how they became billionaires.
Making everyone else spend the money while you get to make money off of them spending money.
by crashoveride01 on Jan 22, 2012 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
generally
I’d say you’re right.. But how is it acceptable for NFL owners specifically to ask govt. To pay or contribute to the stadium…
I just don’t get it.
http://brotherspork.wordpress.com/
by Infemous on Jan 22, 2012 10:32 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
A sound plan
St. Louis isn’t the only city struggling through this issue. I live in Suckramento and the Kings are struggling to build a new venue because the dumbass billionaires who inherited the franchise have zero business sense: Couldn’t finance a casino properly and they will lose the Palms and sold their Coors distribution company.
Anyways, some of the better business plans have a per fee seat for people who use the venue (Target Center in Minnesota). This per fee seat is set aside in a fund & invested for upgrades and potentially a new arena. This goes for all events held at the venue. The people who use the venue, are the ones that pay. Makes too much sense, huh?
The entire NBA sucks.
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
by Midasknight on Jan 22, 2012 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
Fuck you.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
Chris Mortensen: "You know it's the 'Show-Me' State right Sam?"
"Pshh, 'Show Me.' (smirking) Yeah, I've heard that."
-Sam Bradford
Because they have something we want, and want us to pay for it...
Paul Allen (one of the Microsoft founders), by far is the wealthiest NFL owner, even though the NFL lists him as having less money than Kroenke. Allen wouldn’t spend a dime on their stadium if he didn’t have too. Kroenke is a real estate guy too, so he’ll beat the crap out of any St. Louis bargaining group because that is what he does for a living.
Are the owners greedy? Sure, but when it comes right down to it, the fans don’t hold much ground when it comes to their ultimate decision making paradigm.
well said.
Find me on Twitter @RVB_SBN
by Ryan Van Bibber on Jan 22, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
The fans aren't organized or represented in these negotiations, though the owners claim they're in our corner
It’s just like the CBA negotiations. There is a 2 way negotiation, not a 3 way negotiation, including the fans. We’re on the outside, once again. At least it doesn’t hurt me too much in that I never had a geographical attachment to the Rams. Although I like St Louis to be their hometown, as long as they stay in the west and the NFC. I’m relatively unaffected.
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
The same reason governments do
Because they can.
I think their perception is they are bringing a lot of “jack” into the community and thus they should be given a sweetheart deal for it. It doesn’t just happen with proffessional sports either. Corporations are always shopping factories and stores pitting the communities competing against each other.
I’ve seen all kinds of studies showing how much sports francises benefit or don’t benefit the community. Generally the consensus is they are a poor investment of public money in terms of the return but they have an intangible aspect that contributes to the quality of aspect of the community.
I have a feeling Kronke’s motive is to leverage his position into an opportunity to own the facility outright and with the reality of what it would be worth if the Rams pull out I’d say he’ll get it at a bargain.
Studies?
More can be learned from a study…when one knows who bought it. Professional sports teams add a lot to a city: St Louis Cardinals for an example. The St Louis Rams brought much to St Louis…more when sucessful. What would the town of Green Bay be without the Packers. Life is competition. On the field of play…off the field of play. Los Angeles still weeps for a football team…why? Because one does not know how important something is until yah lose it.
Merely as a devil's advocate
Because it brings in tax revenue and jobs and all that shit.
Which is total bull, but yeah, that’d probably be the argument.
Ticket Sales
Tell me why would the fans want to buy tickets to see the Rams in 2012, 2013 when they would be moving the team out of the area in 2014! It’s not gonna happen!! Stan needs to come right out and tell everyone that if the deal falls through at the Dome that he will be building a New Stadium in the St Louis area!!!!
Since Stan wants to own his stadium
and public money is next to non exsisting, maybe he can pony up some “jack” for a percentage of ownership of the stadium.
You can pick your friends and
you can pick your butt.
But you can't pick your friends butt.
JohnnieWarthawgism
by johnniewarthawg on Jan 22, 2012 10:46 AM CST reply actions
Beating a dead horse
they’re playing poker.they won’t tip that hand anytime soon
by Ram_Redemption on Jan 22, 2012 10:56 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Stop making sense.
"Fac Fortia et Patere"
by FailureDrill on Jan 22, 2012 11:05 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
guarantees---wtf---
you all on this blog need to understand football is a business
and like a business—-thats what the owner is /and will treat it as
\guarentees don’t exist in football
remember when art modell moved the browns to baltimore
because of a sweeter package
and st. louis has no football history like cleveland
as a west coaster i would love to see the rams back
but all have to remember why teams move in the first place
$$$$$$$$$$$
Stan would make less money in LA
would have to sell share of team and wouldn’t be able to own stadium
and i'm not being a prick or sarcastic
because i will forever treasure our
super bowel win in ’99
Hahaha I know, the only thing he treasures
Is golden corral
Beating off the dog is never appropriate when we have company over...... I mean EVER!
by sergey606 on Jan 22, 2012 11:48 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
why would you hate me ----you just are too young to understand business---as you
become a bit older ….you will learn about businesses….and not about principal…..and yes i meant super bowl
i don't take your hatred personally...as you mature dante you will see that the
business can be a criel world and not as you believe it should be
You're kind of a ghoulish guy aren't you?
You also like to espouse cookie cutter wisdom in the hope someone – ANYONE – will respect you? Sergey, Dante, and DC have greater wisdom than you, and they show it by questioning your “cold cruel” (not criel – Try spell check someday). You are all about what’s wrong, and never about what’s right. I’ll take the minds of the three friends I mentioned over yours any day of the week. You are so very limited, not just in thought, but in how you look at life…
That's some poetic shit, Doug.
I like it.
"Fac Fortia et Patere"
by FailureDrill on Jan 22, 2012 2:07 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
serg you are probably younger to and filled with principles .....asi said to dante
you will understand that its a cold world and our owner will do whats best for him
and not the st. louis fans
his deducting 3 games from the sched already sshows us this
i will get to see them once a year in sf—-so no deduction for me
Wow you actually responded?! Maybe one of these days you can have a reasonable football discussion instead of popping in, vomiting some words and leaving
PS. Some of the “young guys” on here know more about football than you ever will.
Beating off the dog is never appropriate when we have company over...... I mean EVER!
by sergey606 on Jan 22, 2012 1:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
BTW
YOU WATCHING THIS HOCKEY GAME?!
Been losing sleep over Rams football since 1999.
Steven Jackson is a beast, a legend, a HoFer and should be treated as such.
by Joe Mazzi on Jan 22, 2012 1:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I want to go to nthat outdoor hockey game they play in a NFL stadium someday. It's in Philly or Pittsburgh, isn't it?
They switch it up every year.
But last year was at Heinz Field between Pens and Caps. It almost wasn’t cold enough and they basically played on slush.
Been losing sleep over Rams football since 1999.
Steven Jackson is a beast, a legend, a HoFer and should be treated as such.
Still got a period to go.
But it’s about time that both of our teams are starting to play how they should be again. I hate the Caps, but it’s just not hockey if them and the Pens aren’t squaring off.
Been losing sleep over Rams football since 1999.
Steven Jackson is a beast, a legend, a HoFer and should be treated as such.
Makin is due
Pretty ugly period by the Pens….needed to convert on that 5 in 3 and almost gave up a SH goal. Should be a good 20 mins, though
Fuckin' Ovechkin......
Been losing sleep over Rams football since 1999.
Steven Jackson is a beast, a legend, a HoFer and should be treated as such.
I didnt get to watch
Wanted to hit the gym before the games. Saw the final though…caps are struggling this year :(
Fun fact about a good team in the NHL: Brandon Dubinski’s brother plays on my hockey team
Beating off the dog is never appropriate when we have company over...... I mean EVER!
by sergey606 on Jan 22, 2012 3:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

2 men enter 1 man leaves. THOSE ARE THE RULES OF THUNDER DOME!
"I learned that Madonna will be singing at the Super Bowl. I thought this was football not the soundtrack to your menopause." ~ RAMpage28
by RAMpage28 on Jan 22, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
doubtfull my dear friend serg....the history of the rams did not begin in st. lou
but its always a pleasure having dialogue with you over a cup of joe…catch you later
Nor did it begin in LA
Been losing sleep over Rams football since 1999.
Steven Jackson is a beast, a legend, a HoFer and should be treated as such.
No kidding. They began as much in LA as the titans began in Tennessee
Beating off the dog is never appropriate when we have company over...... I mean EVER!
by sergey606 on Jan 22, 2012 3:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
st. louis should tell kroenke to go to hell or los angeles,
whichever offers up taxpayer money for a guaranteed money-loser of a stadium that will be “obsolete” in 20 years first.
You don't think a more modern and versitile stadium could be a good investment? Just asking, because I really don't know if it is or isn't.
That's just it, though.
The Ed meets that need of being versatile. I don’t blame the taxpayers if they choose not to pony up for a new football stadium that can’t serve as a venue for anything but football games and the occasional summer concert.
Not during this economic climate, anyways.
"Fac Fortia et Patere"
by FailureDrill on Jan 22, 2012 2:37 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
from what I've read publicly-funded stadiums almost never make money for the areas that help fund them
(imo) the market for sports stadiums is enormously distorted by all the public money flowing into it. there’s no functional reason for the EJD to be as outdated as it supposedly is less than 20 years after its construction, and in a market in which the people who wanted the stadiums were actually paying for them it wouldn’t be. but since it’s so easy to convince politicians to foot the bill, since they’re desperate for visible, beautiful, popular projects to attach their names to, stadiums are getting bigger, newer, and more ostentatious by the year.
But your only looking at revenue from the stadium itself, not from the local bars
and other establishments that draw in money due to the football team being there in a good area around a stadium. Also the fact that having a football team makes more people who want to live near your city. This is the type of stuff we do in Sports Management.
I prefer Blackmon over Kalil
Just tryin’ to get some football in this thread.
Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is where the Stanley Cup can be found.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Jan 22, 2012 3:55 PM CST reply actions
Much better.
Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is where the Stanley Cup can be found.
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on Jan 22, 2012 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
which means we aren't going to get blackmon at all
so how about staying for kalil?
by navybluenachos33 on Jan 22, 2012 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
I really like Blackmon
but I think if Kalil is on the board when it’s time to pick, you can’t pass him up.
I agree with...
what several others have said; SK will do what’s in his best interest; not what is best for the fans or the citizens of St. Louis. If in fact he decides to keep the team in St. Louis, it will still be because it is in HIS best interest to do so.
Here's a quick question...
Why is a stadium a big factor? Look at Green Bay and Lambeau Field… Chicago and Soldier Field… I mean, I guess I’m not uinderstanding what all the talk about the Rams upgrading a stadium that was built in what, 1994?
TurfShowTimes editor and don't forget to check out our Rams Breakdowns on YouTube
"Hell was Mark Levoir even in camp? Who is Mark Levoir? Who am I? Wtf is going on?"
- Bralidore
Simple
it’s a piece of shit. Horrible atmosphere. Nothing business wise around it. Not ideal location. Domes suck. Just a sub par NFL stadium and anyone who’s been there will tell you that.
Both of those stadiums have been upgraded at least once since 1994.
Soldier Field is pretty much a whole new stadium.

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