Musings about the last 3 years Draft Picks+
by RamChop on Sep 5, 2011 1:18 PM CDT
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Print[Note by VanRam, 09/05/11 2:15 PM EDT ] Front page'd by Van. This is a great read on the Rams' recent draft classes...and what a difference they've made.
It is a general relief to say that there are few leftovers from the Martz-Linehan regimes. Aside from a very few good players like SJax, Ron Bartell and Chris Long, the number of past draft failures is staggering. I get physically ill when I think about wastes like Alex Barron, Tye Hill, Adam Carriker, Brian Leonard, Joe Klop, Richie Incognito, et.al. The latest guy to go was Donnie Avery. There's another 2nd rounder gone, and nobody else wants him either. And aside from the draft failures, Martz, Linehan, Zygmunt, Shaw and company let a lot of good players get away going as far back as London Fletcher, Dre' Bly, Grant Wistrom to Brandon Chillar and Madison Hedgecock. The cumulative effect of these personnel mistakes led to the Rams being weak after 2003 to being a laughing stock from 2005-2009.
So now the question becomes how good of a job have Devaney/Spags done the last three years? Right off the bat it's obvious they have been much better than their predecessors. Of course they did have the luxury of picking 2nd and 1st overall their first two years. I guess Martz-Linehan gets credit for us picking at the top. Thanks alot guys.
IMHO, there's good and bad in the Devaney/Spags picks versus pretty much all bad for Martz-Linehan. I was NOT thrilled with BD/Spags very first pick; Jason Smith. This guy was chosen 2nd overall and is being paid $33M to be an average NFL right tackle. He also may be susceptible to concussions (that means we need a very good b/u not named Adam Goldbrick). My guess is Smith will either break out this year or forever be just a decent player with a much lower salary. 2nd pick of 2009, JL, was a touchdown. He reminds me of great old time guys like Ray Nitscke, Mike Curtis and Hacksaw Reynolds. He'll soon be getting Pro-Bowl invites and more $$$. #3 pick Brad Fletcher seems to be fully adequate. After that nobody's left from the 2009 draft but Darell Scott. And I figured he would've been cut by now. I'm not losing any sleep over having already cut our 5-7th rounds picks. They were laughers. These guys aren't the type players championship teams are made of.
Looking at the 2010 Draft we got two genuine stars and potential Pro-Bowlers in Brad and Saffold. Could not have asked for better with the 1st two picks. The only thing I hated was that the 1st pick had to be between Sam and Suh. Both guys should be multiple time Pro-Bowlers and HOF's. I didn't like Murphy picked 3rd, nor Gilyard at 4th. Murph is done for at least a year due to injury and Gilyard has been rightly jettisoned. That tough to have to cut a guy picked 99th overall. But I admire the FO for bucking up and taking the hit. After Gilyard, there's just not much value there. Hoom reminds me of an injury magnet ala Carriker and Avery. And I hope Sims and Josh Hull can be encased in glass with an ax handy to break them out only in case of dire emergency. Davis, Johnson and Onobun were laughers. Selvie was, and is, too small to to routinely play DE in this league. But I wish him good luck at Charlotte, if he sticks.
Now on to 2011. If you read any of my previous comments it's obvious I was against the Robert Quinn pick when it was 1st announced. I was waaay in the minority. All the talking heads and pundits loved him. BUT, at least 3 teams wouldn't even consider him because of previous serious health problems that are currently dormant. And God bless him, I pray they stay dormant. But, in all honesty, when you add in the existing health issues and the fact he missed his senior year of collegiate fb on an honors violation, I'd have passed on Quinn and taken Corey Liuget. We've brought in alot of guys in their 30's in an attempt to win now. We don't have 2-3 years for Quinn to shed the rust and contribute. Our D-Line guys like James Hall and Fred Robbins are getting old. I belly-ached about picking TE Kendricks with our 2nd pick, but I was apparently 100% wrong on that one. He's being lauded as our best TE and a lock starter. Good, we need him. Next we chose WR's Pettis and Salas with 3rd and 4th picks. These choices made my head hurt. WHY with a stable of #2 or #3 receivers onboard did we add two more? Especially two guys that are considered slow. It seems we have plenty of slow second rate receivers. Why not try to trade our 3rd and 4th picks for a second round pick to have a shot at getting someone with #1 WR potential? I can't get excited about Hines at 5th and two 7th picks have already been cut. Again, I'd like to see as few 6-7th rounders and UDFA's on the team as possible. The odds have gotta be 20-1 or worse of getting a credible player out of the 7th round. A classic example is the now cut David Vobora, who was a 3-year project that failed. I have nothing against Vobora except that he hurt our team every time he took the field to play. But he was not the only one.
We're very fortunate to have hit on a few stars in the past 3 drafts. And, we finally picked up some much needed NFL caliber players in the 2011 FA. We did very little good in FA during 2009 and 2010 aside from maybe Jason Brown and Mark Clayton. James Butler, Ni'all Diggs, Hollis Thomas, Hank Fraley, etc. weren't very good. But, this year we scored highly by acquiring Dahl, MSW, Mikell, Bannan, Caddy, Norwood, Poppy, Leber and maybe even this Wragge guy. I would not be surpised to still see Kehl, Feeler, Scott, King, Chamberlain and a few others dumped for better players that were castoff by other teams. Anyway, I'd feel better about our chances if they were replaced.
Below are lists of the players drafted over the last 3 years showing who's still standing and who's been toasted. Make up your own minds on how to rate the success. Because so many draftees have already been cut, my disappointment with Smith, my fear of Quinn, the fact some more guys are still likely to fall and they fact we drafted high, i.e. 2nd, 1st and 14th overall, the very best I could rate our 3-year draft succes is a B- -. But that sure beats the F- I'd give Martz-Linehan.
2009 Draft
1.Round One (2)- Jason Smith OT
2.Round Two (35)- James Laurinaitis LB
3.Round Three (66)- Bradley Fletcher CB
4.Round Four (103)- Darell Scott DT5.Round Five (160)- Brooks Foster WR
6.Round Six (196)- Keith Null QB
7.Round Seven (217)- Chris Ogbonnaya RB
2010 Draft
First round, pick 1: Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma
Second round, pick 1 (33): Rodger Saffold, OT, Indiana
Third round, pick 1 (65), Jerome Murphy, CB, South Florida
Fourth round, pick 1 (99), Mardy Gilyard, WR, Cincinnati
Fifth round, pick 1 (132), Michael Hoomanawanui, TE, Illinois
Fifth round, pick 18 (149), Hall Davis, DE, Louisiana-Lafayette
Sixth round, pick 1 (170), Fendi Onobun, TE, Houston
Sixth round, pick 20 (189), Eugene Sims, DE, West Texas A&M
Seventh round, pick 4 (211), Marquis Johnson, DB, Alabama
Seventh round, pick 19 (226), George Selvie, DE, South Florida
Seventh round, pick 47 (compensatory, 254), Josh Hull, ILB, Penn State
2011 Draft
1st Round: Robert Quinn
2nd Round: Lance Kendricks
3rd Round: Austin Pettis
4th Round: Greg Salas
5th Round: Jermale Hines
7th Round: Mikail Baker
Jabara WilliamsJonathon Nelson
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Comments
It's about time! Good post!
Whether anyone agrees with you or not, no one can say you don’t put thought behind your observations.
I’ve always thought of the Draft as a crap shoot at best when you get outside of the first and second round. I think rounds 3 to 7 are about stats or gut feelings, neither of which are anything you can bet the bank on. Some teams have a knack for “late round picks”. We have a history of “Coin flip” picks. Fun to root for, but not suprised if they don’tmake it…
Hope to see more posts out of you VERY soon!
Educational Post
No Offense Ramchop, but as I remember it, you weren’t happy with picking Bradford first. Your belly-aching on the #1 WR sounds like a broken record. There just wasn’t one realistically available at #14. 4-7 picks most likely aren’t going to make it just on a statistical basis. Rebuilding a team takes time, the ’99 Rams spoiled us into thinking a turn-around can happen quickly. Although, I appreciate your skeptical views, they do a good job balancing out the optimists.
I'll admit I was on the fence. I couldn't decide on which would be better Bradford or Suh. I changed my mind daily...
I’m glad we took Sam. I am also impressed by Billy D and Spags taking the leap of faith on his shoulder. They could tell it wouldn’t be a problem. I’d love to have that kind of prescience in my own life.
Yeah it was a pretty weak
WR draft for top tier talent. It’ll be much better this year.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
Yeah. It's no secret that my "covert" plan would've been to dump Bulger, get Mike Vick and draft Suh.
But, I have been impressed by Brad. He’s big, strong, intelligent, seems to be driven to lead/win and he can flick a ball 60 yards. He’s the Anti-Bulger. I just wish Sam had an elite speedster with great hands to catch some bombs for us. I think it’s gonna be tough to complete very many 30 yard (in-the-air) passes with our current crew of receivers.
The only WRs I thought were impressive and #1s this year were Jones and Green
Once neither of them dropped to us in the first round, there was no one else I would have taken with the 14th overall pick. Who was considered the 3rd best receiver in that draft class anyways? Baldwin? Look how that’s worked out so far. I’m hoping we can grab a solid #1 in this next draft. I also hope our 1st round pick is closer to 32nd overall next year.
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
i would agree with that opinion
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
nice post chop
what do you think about our scouts? I know some of them have been with stl pre-devaney. Maybe a slight overhaul would be beneficial. I’m being optimistic on quinn, although one cant argue that it was a risky pick, health issues aside, he was out of football for a year. Hoping to see that natural edge rushing ability sooner than later.
My two favorite teams, the St. Louis Rams and whoever's playing the winers.
agreed on the scouts
Our drafts could be better.
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
by dbcouver on Sep 5, 2011 3:56 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
RamChop your being way too nice today and I dont think I like it hahaha
and after a 0-4 start wow you got me thnking right now lol
Good god, you're much more reasonable when you post than when you comment
And yes, the highest I could give their drafting is a B right now. And I honestly think Jason Smith’s line is going to be thin if he doesn’t stand out this year. His contract hits double digits for the 2012 season, and that’s a ton of money to pay for a tackle who isn’t one of the best in the conference. Where he was picked aside, he has to perform and stay healthy this year.
Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan
2009 draft was straight weak for everyone
Just take a look at the 1st round picks. You could maybe make a case for drafting Eugene Monroe instead of Jason Smith. But it was just a crappy year
by FlimtotheFlam on Sep 5, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, it was poor
and the dagger was turned in my heart when Hakeem Nicks didn’t fall to us in the second
Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan
by 3k on Sep 5, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I wanted Michael Oher
I live in Memphis so I got to see him at Ole Miss a fair amount. He was/is the real deal.
Great post Chop-but I'm eatin breakfast, so will reply later-
In the cool still quiet hours of night, you can hear Eagles players softly uttering love words to themselves while kissing their hands and arms. "I am the Dream team-I am the Dream team"
Knoxfan-
In the cool still quiet hours of night, you can hear Eagles players softly uttering love words to themselves while kissing their hands and arms. “I am the Dream team-I am the Dream team”
That has got to be one of the funniest things I have ever read, and its so true! Maybe we can wake um up come Sunday. Thanks for the laugh
Wel'cm and thx-
In the cool still quiet hours of night, you can hear Eagles players softly uttering love words to themselves while kissing their hands and arms. "I am the Dream team-I am the Dream team"
Excellent post
even a B grade is miles above where those older draft classes were. still, strive for As.
certainly
Gotta get more hits after round 2, especially now that we’re not picking at the top of the round.
Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan
by 3k on Sep 5, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Need more Bradley Fletcher's!
I’m still freaking high on Pettis. I can’t wait to see that guy develop.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
NBCAOPF Eyes Check Soon
Pettis And Salas are bad picks. Never should have been drafted. Salas catches this preseason was mostly in the forth quarter against the bottom of the barrel players covering him. They made the team because they did not want to pay the money. Pettis had one catch for 6 yards and looked even slower then Salas. To bad you do not know football.
Judging rookie WR by what they ve done in preseason sounds like someone that dosnt know football, these where picks made because of need. If any of are starters get injured these guys could be very important this year. i ll agree neither did anything spectacular but i did nt see anything to call them bust yet either. Lets see what they do with Sam throwing them the ball with some other threats on the field.
Hands are good.
They can catch the ball and that is true. 10 catches for 75 or 80 yards is all we will get out of them. No run after the catch.
And in what world
is that a bad stat line? I bet half of those catches will be for first downs anyway, like Amendola. Pettis caught 22 touchdown catches in the redzone in the last two years of college, more than his entire team combined and the most in the nation. I don’t care how hard the transition is to the NFL is, no one on our roster has that kind of redzone ability. Like I said, I can’t wait to see that guy DEVELOP.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
Yup,
the guy willing to write off rookies after a shortened offseason/preseason is telling me I don’t know football. Thanks, but I got a 15/20 eyesight, I’m fine there.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
I actually like this post
It’s less crying and you actually give the fo credit but at the same time saying where they could have done better. Do you think Quinn makes a major impact this year?
Sam Bradford to Austin Pettis
Kinda has a ring to it
by RG31 on Sep 5, 2011 1:33 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
4-5 sacks.
The preseason showed that he can very well beat his guy. He needs to learn some technique to finish. Still, he was known for being raw, and it shows on his preseason film along with tremendous athletic ability.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
Yea he does need to learn how to finish
I counted several times he could have had multiple sacks and just couldn’t finish. He’s great off the line…
Sam Bradford to Austin Pettis
Kinda has a ring to it
by RG31 on Sep 5, 2011 4:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
pretty much what all the scouts were saying about him when we drafted him
best pure pass rusher in his class, but needs to develop. Hall should be able to last us long enough for Quinn to develop and give us one of the scariest DE combo’s in the league.
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
While I didn't favor the pick, I was hoping Quinn would kick-in like a rocket sled.
But that year off musta got him quite rusty. I watched about 2/3’s of the pre-season action. Quinn looked good to me only against the Chiefs. He didn’t appear near as fast off the ball as expected and for some reason he kept ending up on the ground (where you can’t do much). And Quinn was largely playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers. I was hoping for instant success so he could maybe take some blockers off Long. Maybe if Long can get freed up some, he can turn alot of those QB pressures into hits and sacks.
Yea i noticed that
Same goes for Quinn too if he could have turn some of the almost into sacks or tackles for last he would be golden, didn’t you line his burst off the line and how he was in the backfield often?
Sam Bradford to Austin Pettis
Kinda has a ring to it
by RG31 on Sep 5, 2011 4:36 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
there really wasn't any reason to expect him to start off hot
Year off + no off season = needs time to develop. But one of the beautiful things about this pick is that the Rams are in a great position to develop a DE. Long and Hall should be a good pair of starters again this year, and they can work in Quinn on passing downs when Hall moves inside. It fits really well with what Spags likes to do. So look for Quinn to be a situational player this year with hopefully 5-6 sacks and a starter next year, when it will be time to move on from Hall anyway. If this works out, we will be set at QB, OT, and DE for the next six years or so.
We will see Quinn in rotation against the Eagles
In the cool still quiet hours of night, you can hear Eagles players softly uttering love words to themselves while kissing their hands and arms. "I am the Dream team-I am the Dream team"
I wonder how many snaps he'll play
I guess maybe 15, or 20 at the outside, and mainly obvious passing downs.
we do seem to hit with small school picks
eugene sims is developing nicely, with the added weight can move inside to tackle on obvious passing downs. He hasn’t lost a step due to his height and has potential to be a good hybrid james hall type dlineman. Same goes for jabara, we’ve got some potential there.
My two favorite teams, the St. Louis Rams and whoever's playing the winers.
DamnChop
I’m impressed, not that you care at all, but I can live with that.
You forgot to mention Kendricks? He might be the best player out of this whole draft.
I still think Austin Pettis
Will replace Amendola. He will be an awesome slot receiver. He has excellent lateral quickness, coordination and change of direction. He should be our kick off/punt returner for sure.
U had me at pettis replacing amendola, then lost me with the returning kicks… Uhm NO! Once we get our big time wideout in the 1st and u know what why not trade for slaton from houston so we can continue as I planned on going D 2-7! Go Rams!
by Boy Yottic on Sep 5, 2011 2:15 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Why do you give this guy so much credit.
This guy is slow. Look at his college film. He look slower in the pros. We do not need a slower version of Amendola running kicks and punts. Come on man and stop telling these jokes.
Best lateral quickness
in the combine for receivers and a faster 40 time than Larry Fitzgerald, what a piece of shit talent!
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
if he can amount to half of Fitzgerald I'd be pretty happy.
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
Me too.
Even a third. Fitz is that good, and he does NOT have elite speed like so many on here think receivers need.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
Great post chop
While I don’t always agree with you, I do appreciate your realism. It’s apparent that we could hit better on our late round picks. But honestly you can’t expect them to get good starting players from every 4th-7th rounder.
Yes but maybe one quality starter in 3 years would be nice
from rounds 4-7!
That's exactly what I was gonna say.
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
by dbcouver on Sep 5, 2011 4:00 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No, I don't expect starters from rounds 4-7.
But when you’re picking either 1st or 2nd overall, you’re 4th is just one slot away from the SB winner’s 3rd pick. I’d just as soon NOT have too many 4-7 picks or UDFA’s playing on my team. But you’d think we might get lucky at least once in awhile. Even the blind hog stumbles across and acorn every now and then. Maybe we used up all our good luck in the late 90’s by grabbing that UDFA named Kurt Warner?
WHY with a stable of #2 or #3 receivers onboard did we add two more?
Cause the slackers got to go, that’s why.
Thanks for the excellent post
Often I find some of your comments a tad too negative, which is fine as it takes all types, but this is a well presented look at the new regimes draft success to date without narrowly focusing only on a few points where you are critical.
Drafting is a funny business and far from fool proof. Also it would seem to me picking to build team depth for a depleted roster is far more difficult than picking to sustain a full functioning roster. We have been very solid with the top two picks which truthfully is where you absolutely must get things right. I’ve been a tad disappointed with our mid round picks but it would seem the success of our top picks more than covers given the ability of us to fill in with a plethora of free agents this year- not sure how this will pan out long term but I suspect we’ll be able to mask some drafting deficiencies and find a way to come out fine. I don’t get overly concerned with the back end of the draft but at least we have managed to find a few bodies there.
I’d be interested in seeing how our drafts stack up to other teams but I think we have shown great patience in our drafting and it should start paying dividends real soon.
I guess in a strange way we owe Lineahaan a nod or our current success for it was his regime that led to the rock bottom draft status allowing us to get Sam. But damn did we ever earn that- my god I can’t think of three more brutal years!
agree. With all of it.
i couldnt go higher than a B. It seems our bread and butter are rounds 1 and 2. Its like we cant miss in a league where you would be surprised at how often teams do miss, and a fairly good stable of 3’s in Bradley Fletcher (stud) and Jerome Murphy (another NFL worthy CB). I still believe it’s too early to judge the 3rd and 4th from this year although it is a bit worrisome that WRs taken between the 5th round and UDFA territory are showing good things and aren’t developing as slowly as our guys. People like Denarius Moore from OAK. But the team, spags, and devaney are showing a confidence that you never really heard publicly for guys like gilyard. They are putting their faith in and i dont think either pick will end up being a bust in the end
It'd be interesting to find the info on every team in the NFL
in comparison to the Rams with Drafted player retention, successful UDFA pick ups, and busted picks. i think the Rams would be above average in the three year span
Agreed
No team consistantly drafts better than others.
I mean, we had an awful 2006 draft, right ?
Check out the Patriots’ 2006 draft… Very meh…
"For Better or for Worse; 'Till Death Do Us Part"
GO RAMS !!!
Hey,
they hit on Stephen Gostkowski at least.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
Nice post Chop. You know I have to disagree with you on a couple of points.
The thing with Robert Quinn is that he didn’t play for a full year. The brain tumor is a really mild concern, but he played with it and was great in college with it. If Robert played last year, he wouldn’t have fell to the Rams
I wanted a DT also, but the Rams are okay with the ones they have now. Think of it this way, Liuget could end up a really good to great player, Quinn could be a good to elite player. Is there more risk with Quinn? Yeah, but it’s a bigger reward than with Liuget.
Also, defensive tackles aren’t really high in Spags defense. I honestly think, he thinks that he can develop any DT into a good player at least. This year’s draft we will probably go DT in the top 3 rounds.
Also I agree that the Rams haven’t been great at drafting, but they have hit on some free agents and UDFAs. If the Rams had more good players, before Spags got here, I’m sure we wouldn’t be complaining about these bad drafts.
Besides that a great post Ramchop. You shocked me some with this one.
Is that great man formally known as Tevin T. Broner, also I'm on twitter T_bron
yeah we have 9 starters in 3 years in the draft
and then we have DX as a UDFA. Pretty snazzy if you ask me
I was just taking a look at this, as I didn't think there were 9 either
Here’s the count:
2011: really too early to judge, but for now at least we have Kendricks as a starter
2010: Bradford and Saffold. Hoomanawanui and Murphy also look like solid rotational players, though health is obviously an issue.
2009: Smith and Laurinaitis and Fletcher.
2008: Long. Chamberlain is a good special teams player.
So that’s 7 starters, and at this point they all look to be good ones. This supports what’s been said thus far — they have done well with top picks and not so well finding quality depth in the middle rounds. Got to give them credit for getting the most important picks right.
oops, forgot King in 2008
He has value as a rotational/depth CB.
Thanks Chop, finally a truly unbiased read
And one that doesn’t kiss ass. Do you see a trend here with Billy D? He hits home runs with the first three picks then flops the rest…my point is, the first three picks are the easiest, my grandma can make them…real good GMs can find talent in the later rounds, Billy D cannot. He continues to hold this team back while fans think he’s the reason of our recent success. Until he is gone we won’t get over the hump into the top tiered teams…..once again, great read and good too hear from u again.its been a while.
by JordansDad on Sep 5, 2011 2:57 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
saying that the first three picks are the easiest is both sily and just wrong
If that were true, you wouldn’t see huge busts year after year after year
Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan
by 3k on Sep 5, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
theyre not easier than picks 4-7? hmm
3k… So the first three picks don’t usually start for their teams right away and don’t have a higher success rate?
by JordansDad on Sep 5, 2011 3:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
There is less pressure
on those picks and thus less over-analyzing. In a sense, I think those picks are much easier, just doesn’t mean you’ll always hit on them. No matter what, you want starters and/or contributors with the first three (like a nickel corner i.e Murphy in the third) so there is a lot of pressure to get those right. Luckily, we’ve done that in the past few years.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
thats all i was sayin douchie
Billy D can’t seem to be able to find gems in the later rounds
by JordansDad on Sep 5, 2011 3:23 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
you don't need gems in the late rounds if ur first three picks are starters loll
thats the thing. A team should PRAY for three starters, rounds 1-7. if they happen to be picks 1-3, good. if they are picks 1,3, and 5. cool. if they are 3 7th rounders thats all good too. Its just unreasonable to ask for more, like having every pick hit since theyre so good at the top of the draft. ive never heard of 5 or 6 picks starting in the NFL in the same draft. Im sure it has happened but id be willing to bet it doesnt happen often
its a whole lot easier to recover from drafting bad in 4-7
its damaging to be on the losing end in picks 1-3. Not only can the wrong picks lose you a season, but it can alienate a fan base and ruin the franchise. i should know. I’ve been a Rams fan my entire life. I feel like every Rams fan should be able to appreciate the fact that it is NOT a guarantee or even easy to pick in the 1st and 2nd rounds. Every year you hear of about 1/3 of them being between good and great, 1/3 being just NFL worthy, and the other 1/3 being busts. 2nd round is probably 1/2 solid starters, 1/2 average to below average players. If it was easy or even just NOT extremely difficult, their would be no Bills teams, no Panthers, no 09 rams, no 08 Lions. That comes from losing at the top of the draft. If it were easy, they would just be better cuz they want to
You want to find Probowlers to HOFs in the first 5..
Probowlers in the top 15 and solid, eventual starters in the rest of the first and second.
Why is J Smith considered a bust by so many of Rams fans? He was the 2nd pick in the draft. If he was taken in the late teens, low 20s most people would be fine with the pick. You find me a team that makes probowlers out rounds 4-7 and i’ll be amazed.
Packers two best players are 1st round picks, Rodgers and Matthews.
Eagles two best players are 1st round picks, Vick and NA… They have a bunch of solid second round picks in there as well, McCoy and Jackson, but our made up of a lot of high round picks.
Colts are a product of Manning.. enough said.
Giants have Eli and Nicks, both 1st rounders. They can make good DL though, but their DBs are higher round choices.
Chargers best player is a 1st round QB in Rivers, and are made up of a wide variety after that.
Steelers are very successful with their early picks and have good fill ins after…
Patriots O is mostly late round picks, but their D isn’t that way…
Late rounds are like throwing a dart at a board.
Baseball-Cardinals
Football-Rams
College Sports-MU Tigers!
that doesn't make them easier though
the risk/reward is relatively even.throughout the draft. If you miss early on, you miss on those picks who are expected to start right away. If you hit on a late pick, it’s seen as a stroke of luck. I don’t think any picks are any “easier” than any other, but yes, the general ability of early picks is obviously higher.
Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan
by 3k on Sep 5, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Why are you trying to explain
something they’ll never get, most people who watch an NFL offseason or draft look at in Simple Jack terms, they think free agency is the same as MLB FA they think the draft is as easy as the NBA draft when it clearly isn’t.
They will never get it, ever 3k, why waste your time?
I think Marquis Johnson
is still on the PUP list and I personally think Murphy will be a very good nickel corner, which is probably why I’d give them a B+. It falls on Smith, if he breaks out this year, that’s easily an A, and I’m sure you’d even move yours up to a B+ or so if he becomes one of the top RT’s in the league. A lot of the 30 year old guys on our team (and all over the league) were signed to one year contracts, so I’m not so hell bent on needing Quinn to produce this year like you are. I think he’s going to be pretty damn good in year two, and I bet we resign and sign more veterans next year when all of the one year contracts are up. I’m not worried. If there is one thing Spags has done well, it’s mix a good group of vets in with a great, young core. Good post, very reasonable thoughts.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
The reasoning behind picks 2-4
all 3 had a reputation for good hands. i think we led the league last year in dropped passes. our record would have been a lot different if we held on to half of those. sam throws a very catchable ball from what i hear so the blame lies on the receivers.
This post sounds less like Chop
And more like edpjr. I say this with my compliments
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
by dbcouver on Sep 5, 2011 4:08 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Welcome back Ed
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
by dbcouver on Sep 5, 2011 4:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Excited
I am very excited for this season coming up. But I am almost even more excited for next years draft. Call me crazy but we have been doing good in our drafts. Bradely Fletcher and Jl55 MAJOR hits. With Daniel Stewart coming up. taking care of SS. Our CB depth will be fine next year. It seems like Spags is into developing DTs by his late round picks. Our DEs are set.
I really see us. Drafting a RB or OLB in the first round. With another solid class. Long. JL55 Bartell and Fletcher resigned. We will be talking about superbowls soon. The resigning our players will be the challenge next offseason
I can't even think about the 2012 draft. I hope we're picking #32.
In fact, I would swap our 2nd or picks 3-7 and some players to try and get us a #1 WR for this season.
If you enjoy the draft
then you are going to love some of the people on here we have a couple of people who know so much about prospects that it’s borderline unhealthy. 3k, dbcouver, ramintheuk, etc
Turf Show Times writer and a pround rams fan. Follow me on twitter @jmwehrle
and also check out mockingthedraft.com
Turf Show Times writer and a pround rams fan. Follow me on twitter @jmwehrle
I appreciate the shout buckeye
You too, man. But really there’s 3K then the rest of us.
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
by dbcouver on Sep 5, 2011 11:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
+ loads
3k’s watch list and college football threads are a great tool to piggy back on draft knowledge, but don’t sell yourself short here either as our MTD leader.
good post
I’m glad to see the nice, balanced discussion. Couple of additional things to add here:
The current Rams FO has pretty consistently shown that they’re willing to aim for greatness in their early picks, which I think is a good thing. Bradford over Suh, Quinn over Liuget, and Smith based more on his long-term potential than what he showed in college. In all of these cases they went with guys who could potentially be great at premium positions, even though there was more risk. I think this is what you have to do if you are trying to build a team that can compete for the Super Bowl, as opposed to a team that will be decent but not really a contender.
Also, draft success rates are lower than you think. Only somewhat more than half of picks in the first two rounds are really successful, less than half in rounds 3-4, and one-third or less in rounds 5-7. And a lot of those don’t really make a major impact (some links supporting this are given below). The key is to find the impact players, and then be able to build good depth behind them. So the fact that Devaney and co. seem to be very successful in the top two rounds is really great. That said, they do need to do better on their mid-round picks, because it is very hard to build a good, complete team without having some successes there.
Here’s a link to a great story about this: http://tiny.cc/0vqsd.
Here is a very interesting article specifically on mid-round picks: http://tiny.cc/np30z. You’ll recognize a lot of names there, but note that very few of these mid-round guys become really top players — maybe you get 2-3 impact guys per year in each of the 3rd and 4th rounds, and the rest are more depth players.
Overall, if the Rams can get two impact players per draft and one other solid contributor, then they’re doing really, really well. They have a good record thus far, so it’s also important to give it a little time — like a couple of years — to see how each draft turns out.
Good read, chop!
"Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day."
If anyone cares what I have to say on Twitter: @Sergey_Konyshev
Fan voting
I would say that the current staff is pretty good with their selections in round one and two. Following those two rounds, it feels like the scouting team goes home and lets their children throw darts at a board. I know the quality of players drops pretty quickly after the first few rounds but we never seem to draft a late gem. They should open up a late round pick to fan voting. It wouldn’t hurt to get the fans more involved and the Rams never seem to draft anyone worth keeping anyway. :-)
I mean,
we’re able to find some good UDFA gems. Might as well just draft them lol. Jabara and Hines will be solid though, I think.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
I think the Rams have been strong in the 1-3 rounds & in FA the fact is the team is getting better. Those players in rounds 4-7 are drafted late for a reason. Could we use a Stud WR, yes but does the hiring of Mcdaniel and his ability to get the most out of the talent he has not make up for that? People doubted Bradford, Kendricks, Saffold & others but they all are turning into solid players for an improving team. Bottom line if we have to count on the late rounds of the draft to improve we d be in big trouble.
Good post Chop
I agree with most of it. This years draft is just to early to grade. As far as "09 an ‘10 we’ve seemed to have hit on 3 of 18. Regardless of where they were chosen, we should have done better than that.
better than that in 09 and 10
We have 5 good starters from those two years, plus a couple more guys who seem like they can contribute. That is an excellent yield.
Maybe
Hell, this is probably a stretch, but as far as we know, Eugene Sims could turn out to be the best of the bunch.
For the sake of argument , I’ll give you Smith and Fletcher. But Jason has a lot to prove as far as I’m concerned. And even if he stays at RT and preforms admirably. As long as he’d be willing to restructure his contract, that would be OK by me. Because, IMO, what would be excellent, would be to have that extra cash to sign a quality WR.
Smith, Sam, Fletcher, Long, and JL.
And yes, other contributors. Would like to see a late round gem every once in a while, hoping Jabara Williams is one of them.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
I know that we have literally never agreed on anything
but I’ll give you credit this was a great post. Good work chop.
Turf Show Times writer and a pround rams fan. Follow me on twitter @jmwehrle
i was grinding my teeth and shaking my fist as I typed that haha
jk lol
Turf Show Times writer and a pround rams fan. Follow me on twitter @jmwehrle
It was eli...I think the SD synchronicity comes in because I think the colts were just above
SD in Peytons draft and Ryan Leaf was the top prospect so it was looking like SD was going to get Peyton…if my memory is working correctly.
- And here's the Rams' 2010 season in a series. Incomplete pass, 18-yard run, incomplete pass, 7-yard run, 5-yard pass, 3-yard run, sack, incomplete pass, punt. Shoot me. - 3K
Yup,
it was a huge debate between Manning and Leaf. Manning: the finished product vs. Leaf: the upside. Colts say Manning was always their choice though.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
That was Eli
I think Peyton told the Colts that if they didn’t take him #1 overall he was gonna kick there asses for the next ten years.
Dougie, you are exactly right.
2004 Draft – SD with the first pick wanted Eli but Eli said he wouldn’t sign with SD. SD picked him and worked out a deal, with the midgets, for Philip Rivers, whom Marty S also liked very much, and two other draft picks that turned out to be, pro-bowlers, Merriman and Kaeding. SD came out smelling like a rose with that trade.
The other that Leadhead brought up below is kind of funny also. When the colts were looking at Leaf and Peyton for the first pick they had them, from what I’ve read, dead even. They asked both guys, “If we pick you, what is the first thing you’ll do?”
Peyton’s response was to get the play book and get to studying.
Leaf’s response was to go to Vegas and party or something to that effect.
I think the difference in responses made that decision a whole lot easier for the colts.
"SJAX" - The extra strength cleaner that fights off that Stubborn, Stingy Defense
Great post Chopper
I know a lot of people disagree with your views on here, but this post solidifies you can back up your criticism with bare facts, and that your opinions are clearly justified.
If we go 19-0, win the superbowl and Bradford/Animal Jr share the NFL MVP award this year, I hope that doesn’t make you post less.
Well done.
VT
WARNING: Due to depression caused by the NFL Lockout, any posts, comments, fanshots, fanposts, email conversations, web site articles or any other related communication may be offensive or slightly disturbing. Reader discretion is advised.
and rec'd
WARNING: Due to depression caused by the NFL Lockout, any posts, comments, fanshots, fanposts, email conversations, web site articles or any other related communication may be offensive or slightly disturbing. Reader discretion is advised.
Rumor has it Avery signed with the Colts
Looks like this could haunt us http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2011/09/05/gary-kubiak-claims-donnie-avery-is-signing-with-the-colts/
no love for alex barron
M-V-TEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Upon hearing that the nfl lockout was over, I faced in the general direction of Seattle and gave them the finger. GO RAMS
Follow me at @Th3_Prophet
I don't know Ramchop
I see what you wrote, and I hear what you’re saying but to get a true idea of how (if at all) inept these past years drafts have been you’re gonna need to stack it up to a winning franchise (Pats) past years draft. This is the only way we are going to see how far off the mark we are (if at all). Agreed?
The only thing comparable to a Rams win is a 49er loss!
What I mean to say is.....
There are ALOT of franchises that draft busts, bums, and flops. Its not an exact science that we wish it was. Pointing out the Rams misses is an argument that could be made against any number of NFL teams. What is the standard for hits and misses? Without out that marker we will not know if your Rams assessment has any value, you know?
The only thing comparable to a Rams win is a 49er loss!
Sounds good in theory, but it's almost an apples versus oranges comparison with a team like the Pats.
In 2009 and 2010 we were picking nearly 30 slots ahead of the Pats. We got the 1st or 2nd choice each round while they typically got somewhere in the high 20’s. To make a realistic comparison, we’d have to look more closely at a team like Detroit that’s been in the doldrums for years like us. I may be wrong, but I expect Detroit to be much improved this year. They were sure fired up the end of last season. IF they hadn’t knocked off Tampa Bay, the Pack wouldn’t even have made the playoffs. One guy like Suh can cause an entire “D” to play over their heads. And with a healthy Stafford and that towering WR they have I expect the Lions will score some points too.
Chop, Are you shocked by the number of X Ram players being scooped up by other teams?
I know I am. I knew a few would find teams that would want to take a look, but our X guys are getting snapped up like players from the Pats or Steelers? Could it be because of Spags thorough look at each guy’s character that other teams respect enough to take a flyer on a player that will at least not have off field baggage?
Naah. Giving them a tryout versus keeping them are different matters.
I’m not sure Spags really believes in all that 4P stuff. More than likely some teams are attracted by the fact that we’ve cut 4-7th round picks from a team that selected 2nd and 1st overall. For example; Milyard at 4th round for us was only1 pick down from New Orlean’s 3rd round pick. I just don’t think alot of these guys will stick in the long run. If you try to hunt up 90% of the players we’ve cut over the last 3 years, they’re outta fb or in the UFL. I do think Thad Lewis will catch on somewhere and play in this man’s league..
It's still has to be a league wide formula-
If looking at the Rams as a baseline, Pats as the apex, it won’t work. You can’t sample from the baseline, so another worst team has to be made the baseline-
In the cool still quiet hours of night, you can hear Eagles players softly uttering love words to themselves while kissing their hands and arms. "I am the Dream team-I am the Dream team"
LMFAO
Detroit took 2 QB in the the last decade, Johnson was their 4th receiver they took with a top 10 pixk and the Detroit offensive line is still garbage and their secondary is almost as bad. The Rams haven’t had nearly the top 10 picks the Lions had. If you have that many opportunites you better strike gold every once in a while. The Rams have been fantastic drafting the last 3 years, whether you think so or not is completely irrelevant, the record proves it as well as the obvious progression of the franchise.
Seriously, you really need to stop commenting on anything related to the draft.
lol. I take it you weren't one of the 7 people who rec'd this post so far or the chief that bumped it to the front page.
Why do I waste my time replying to this clown? Nevermore.
By the way
you better not reply, because I’ve been raping you ever since I got to this site, you’re arguments are severely lacking in so many ways it’s obnoxious and your basis for your argument is so soft it’s pathetic to watch you try and build off of it. Can’t wait to see the next pile of shit you try and shovel to the rest of this sheep filled blog, but with people who actually know you sound like a fucking nerd who just got down watching NFL Live on ESPN and all of sudden think your Bill Walsh.
Really?
Do you think you are getting any where with the language and condescending attitude? You make valid points but why must you drop down to that level and write as if you are a 28 year old man living in your mom’s basement while working out daddy/anger issues?
This site does not need this kind of talk, we are here to support our team and discuss everything Rams with civility. Save your insults and inappropriate language for the bar or whatever other trolling you do.
They will notice and they will giggle.
by papapegasus on Sep 9, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Win now huh?
Only being 2 years removed from 1-15 and only having 2 guys that are considered old and are starters this team is not in win now mode. The team is still building, anyone that knows anything about how NFL teams are built is that it takes time and smart draft picks that have a minor impact now but pay off 2 years down the road. And guess what dummy, they are doing that.
Every so often you break out one of these draft things and make yourself look so God damn dumb is embarrassing.
Robert Quinn is and was the right pick. Maybe you don’t understand how the Giants defense was built but let me explain since you’re so dumb that you make the rest of us look even dumber for reading this shit.
In New York Spagnoulo built his defense around 2 groups, the defensive ends and the corner backs. He has an attacking aggressive all out defense that relies heavily on man-to-man coverage while allowing his defensive ends to sell out against the pass. Not once did the Giants pick a DT in the 1st round because in Spags defense defensive tackle is not of particulrly high value, neither is OLB, that was you can name a Giants DT other than Coefield and Robbins (only because he is a Ram now). Thats why the Giants had multiple defensive ends that were former 1st and 2nd rounders and corners that were former 1st and 2nd rounders. That’s why they picked Murphy and Murphy was progressing very nicely and with him the Rams have a very strong corner back trio. By the way, in the NFL having 2 starters is no longer enough, you have to have a capable nickel, and you’ll see that this weekend when you see the Eagles corners. But you’re to God damn blind by your MLB philosophy. I’ll get to that later after ripping your failed logic apart.
Quinn was picked not only to give the Rams a legit rotational guy this year but to eventually replace an old ass Hall with in the next 2 years and also giving us a fantastic DE duo to build around on the line. Because after all, the defense end is one of the 2 most important groups in Spags defense. Are you getting it now dummy?
This team is not a win now team, thats never been uttered by this regime, front office, coaching staff or owner or anyone but you. It’s a team that’s building through the draft, finding players that fit the system and building a team that lasts longer than a 1 year wonder, a team that you so desperately want I might add. You’re the asshole that wants the Rams to go out and buy “names” while sacrificing the future and cap space on guys who don’t have more than 2 years of relevance left. Please stop posting on the draft, you’re so off and so bad at trying to defend your argument that’s it’s really ugly when I can literally shit on you while eating a sandwich.
Hey Dummy
"I have something 95 percent of all those All-Stars only wish they had: a World Series ring. If I had to choose between that and being an All-Star, it would be no contest. I’d grab the gold ring and never look back." -Tim Salmon
Did you say you were eating a shyt sandwich? I thought that sounded about right.
Thanks for your brilliant and ignored comments. It’s nice to know you’re back in da hood after another weekend in jail with no internet access. Would you be embarrased to know that the Ram’s defense is now 4th oldest in the League after all the changes? Naah, you don’t have any shame. But feel free to spout off all you want. I won’t be reading or responding to any of your crap any more. TaTa (that means adios Muchacho in this case, not titties).
Hahahaha
Really, so the best you could do is say the defense is the 4th oldest? Really, cause I was unaware that the best players on the defense were under the age of 25, you know, the same guys who this defense is built around and have been drafted the last 4 years. But the guys that were added like Justin fucking Bannan, Al Harris and Ben Leber are the real stars right? Oh, you mean Robbins and Hall, the 2 guys who are literally on their last contracts? Oh you mean Mikell? The guy who is a Spags former player who will not play in the NFL after his stint with the Rams? No you’re right the defense is much better than them and not with Long, James L. and Fletcher, and yes Hall does have a brighter future with this team than Robert Quinn who was the best pure pass rushing DE in the draft.
Do you read the garbage you write or just hit reply after your brain throws up on the keyboard?
No, you ignore the fact that every time you comment on the draft you sound like a fucking idiot. What’s the best though is that you actually think you know what you’re talking about when you clearly don’t.
Just curious?
Why won’t Q. Mikell sign with another team after this stint? He’ll be 33 when his contract is up, hardly too old for a safety.
"I kind of stepped my swagger up. You look at the Madden game and the swagger's so low, maybe they'll bump me up. Before it was a meatball flex, so you've got to liven it up a little bit." - Animal Jr.
DaFranchie you offer a different view and analysis here.
It won’t EVER be taken seriously unless you tone down the childish and foul remarks. Re-read what you’ve written with a unbiased eye and you’ll see anything of value you wrote is completely lost by the petulent ranting and name calling. I can see you are an intelligent guy. Why show it and then disprove it at the same time with the personal attacks?
I value freedom of expression. If you doubt me have a look at the many times I’ve defended a person’s right to that expression here on TST. I will never defend egregious statements like the ones you have just put forward. I’ve enjoyed reading some of your comments, but I’m asking you to stop this trend that reflects so poorly on you.
by Douglas M on Sep 6, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
People who make ignorant comments
will get blasted regardless, I could honestly care less what people in internet land think of me, but you better believe I’ll expose fake ass “analysis” like this fucking scrub. He pollutes your mind with this nonsense and is the biggest hater on this site hands down.
His post pretty much summed up his feeling on the Bradford pick, sure he tried to cover it up with some compliment but he’s one of the losers who believes “defense wins championships”. One of these guys who says pass on a potential franchise elite QB for a DT that has the least amount of value on a defense after the linebackers and safeties. Quick name me the Saints defensive tackles of their Super Bowl winning team, now name me the Colts, now name me the Giants. Get it? He’s a fraud, a person acting like he knows whats up when it’s clear his schooling on this comes from ESPN and the NFLN.
Either way, he’s yet to come up with an intelligent response for any my rebuttals.
Valid point
about the DT. It’s hard to name any of those guys. But I’m sure you’d agree that by having a good DT your bookends (Quinn and Long for example) are and can be much more effective.
As far as “defense wins championships” well, that can be a debate of the ages. We could go back as far as Super Bowl lll ( Jan. 1969) where the Jets beat the high powered Colts 16-7. Some would say the Jet defense received very little credit in holding a Colts team that scored 402 pts. (2nd highest in the NFL that year) to 1 TD.
Fast forward to the 70’s, and some would say the reason the Steelers have 4 of their 6 Championship Rings was due to the “Steel Curtain”.
Fast forward to 1985 and I would defy you to come up with an argument as to why the Bears were so dominant that year other than the fact that their Defense was El Fuago.
On Jan. 27, 1991, Bill Parcells devised a brillant plan to stop one of the best offenses of the 1990 season and defeated the Bills in Super Bowl XXL.
Lets move on to Jan 31, 2000. Can you name the HERO of Super Bowl XXXlV.
And how about Super Bowl XLlV, can you honestly overlook what the Giants “D” did to the previously undefeated Patriots.
I’m sure you could come up with as many Offensive gems. But my point is, it’s debatable.
What would be interesting – but probably a load of work – is comparing the Rams’ hit/miss drafting rate in the past three years to that of other teams. I mean, I look at at the last two drafts getting Bradford/Saffold/Laurinitis/Fletcher and think wow! That’s the core of a good team, is it that a big deal that they muffed a few 4-7 round picks? Doesn’t every team blow a lot of picks in the crapshoot? Doesn’t every fan base grumble about how the franchise blew it by not drafting the pick they wanted? It would be interesting to see impartial numbers on draft success
Thanks, that’s helpful. Looking at all the first-round picks the 49ers have had in recent years and how bad they currently are it leaves me thinking one of three things: 1) First rounders are overrated or 2) If you don’t have a real QB it doesn’t matter who you draft or 3) that is one stupid franchise
It' probably a combination of all 3
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
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