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The PBP: Robert Quinn and the pass-rushing DE

Alright, pay attention Jimmy.  What?  What the hell's a lockout?  The who?  I don't give a hot and sweaty Swedish hoot!  You shut your mouth and pay attention!  This is football, not tiddlywinks!  What do you mean what is tiddlywinks?!  Damnit, Jimmy!!!

  It's been a while since we last visited the Projector, but it's time to add to the first four pieces in the series.  Today, we'll look at the pass rush for the 4-3 right defensive end (RDE), and why Robert Quinn is tailor-made for the position.

  Projector Excelsior!!!  (Go, ManBearPig, go)

Star-divide

  So defensive ends are the topic du jour.  And while ends do have an important role in run defense, we're only focusing on pass rushing today, the prime responsibility of the RDE.  But why does the right end enjoy the glory of pass rushing over the LDE?  The answer is relatively simple - history and evolution.

  So instead of rehashing 80 years of football history, let's just get into the modern 4-3 RDE, a pass-rush beast.  Think of Dwight Freeney, Jared Allen, Julius Peppers, Mario Williams or John Abraham - all sack artists, all RDEs.  So what is it that all great 4-3 RDEs have in common?  What traits distinguish them from their peers?

  There are plenty of matrices that evaluate ends on all kinds of data, but I'll condense it into three specific areas: explosion, hands & shedding, and speed or finishing burst.  You could argue those three chronologically make up a sack.  You get off the line, lose the blocker, and sprint to the QB for the sack.  That's pretty basic, no?  Before we get to would these traits should look like, let's look at what they shouldn't look like.  And where better to start than with our Rams.

Failure - explosion

  Let's take it back to the street...Sesame Street.  Which one of these is not like the other?


Explosion_fail_medium

  That would be your RDE pass rushing specialist.  Notice the three other defensive linemen (C.J. Ah You at LDE, Fred Robbins at LDT and Jermelle Cudjo at RDT) are already out of their stances as are all the offensive linemen.  The only lineman on either side who still has his hand in the ground is Eugene Sims at the RDE spot.  And that's how you get this:

Explosion_fail_2_medium

  The other three defensive linemen have gotten anywhere between 2 and 4 yards behind the line of scrimmage.  Sims, on the other hand, is barely beyond the initial point of contact.  Just by getting off of the line too slowly, he has effectively taken himself out of the play and reduced the Rams' defensive capability on this play by a significant margin.  To summarize: this not good.  Go faster.

Failure - Hands & shedding

  This is a two step process.  The best defensive linemen will prevent an offensive lineman's block from setting into their chests by using their hands to swat away the offensive player's arms, or isolating their arms with a move (i.e. swim, rip, etc.).  If the offensive lineman does get his hands into the defensive player's chest, shedding the block is necessary for the end to have an impact on the play.  Again, let's check out how this is not supposed to look, this time with a video clip.  This time, it's George Selvie (#90) lined up at RDE:

  Notice how deep his inside move is; this allows LT Levi Brown to lock Selvie up when he does try to move outside (although having to deal with Stephen Spach on the double team doesn't make things any easier).  While Selvie does get a good push from his pad level, Brown has him completely locked up and Selvie is entirely unable to shed the block to get at Anderson.  This allows time for RB LaRod Stephens-Howling to come out of the backfield, which pulls S Craig Dahl away from WR Steve Breaston.  You can't give any quarterback that much time to sit comfortably and scan the field.

Failure - Speed/closing burst

  The final aspect of the pass rush from the RDE spot is the ability to close.  Having jumped off the line at the snap and eluded the left tackle, the RDE has to identify the proper line to the quarterback and use the utmost acceleration to complete the sack.

  The failure here can be a confusing clip.  C.J. Ah You, lined up at LDE, is going to get a strong jump off the snap.  He'll knock RT Anthony Davis' hands down with a strong swat move.  The rest is what makes C.J. Ah You a situational player instead of an everydown lineman.  He lacks another gear to get around Davis, lumbering deep behind the pocket to earn enough space to come from behind QB Troy Smith for the sack:

  As Tim Ryan notes, Troy Smith should have gotten rid of the ball.  The real takeaway, though, is that despite Ah You's quick nullification of Davis, he takes far too long to get to the QB.  A good DE, RDE or otherwise, closes quickly from the edge, showing a burst of acceleration to go from the tackle's hip to the quarterback's chest.  Now, let's look at some success stories, all from Robert Quinn.

Success - explosion

  First up is a play from the UNC-Georgia Tech game from 2009.  It's a 3rd down and 9 for a Georgia Tech game that relies heavily on the run.  Heavily is actually an understatement; in this game, the Jackets would run the ball 69 times and throw it just 11 times.  Ah, college football.  In any case, this is an opportunity for Quinn (#42, RDE) and Quinton Coples (#90, LDE) to show off their skills on a relatively obvious passing situation.  First, let's take a snapshot of the jump:

Quinn_explosion_pic1_medium

  Quinn, who I identified with the giant arrow, gets a great jump along with Quinton Coples on the opposite side.  A great key to identify the value of their jump is that they've both got their down arms in front of them.  This is key to avoid being bottled up at the line.  For Quinn, the jump allows him to knife inside the line and force QB Josh Nesbitt to throw a bubble screen to the backside where the receiver awaits a handful of tacklers.  Quinn's effort doesn't show up on the stat sheet, but it forces the ball back into UNC's hands.  Here's the play:

  It's not the kind of play that ends up on the highlight reel, but you can be damn sure the coaching staff appreciates it.  Negating the first look on a 3rd down pass play just by getting off the snap quickly?  That's a plus.  Next up, shedding the block.

Success - Hands & shedding

  This is just ridiculous.  Granted, Georgia Tech LT Brad Sellers never made it to the professional level, but for Quinn, this is highlight reel material.  He'll get a solid jump off the snap, and then the clinic begins.  Quinn applies a perfect shoulder rip, curling his inside (left) arm under Sellers' outside (right) armpit.  By doing so, he gives himself all the leverage to control the point of attack.  To make matters worse, he knocks Sellers down with just his right arm, giving him a free lane to the QB.  He forces Nesbitt to step up into Coples' lane, but just watch Quinn operate:

  That's perfect technique, and it's the kind of move that translates well to the NFL.  He may not be able to employ it as often as he did in college, but if he can work it in weekly just to get it in the mind of the tackles he'll face off against, it'll pay blatant dividends.  The final clip looks at Quinn's closing speed.

Success - Closing speed

  I'll just throw out a simple numerical comparison: 7 vs. 5.  In the failure clip, where Ah You gets the sack, he takes seven steps to go from the edge to the QB.  Here, Quinn takes just five against a pro-level LT in Pitt's Jason Pinkston to rush QB Bill Stull (though Stull still tosses a great loft pass that should have been a TD):

  Unlike the Ah You play, where he gets a sack due to early coverage, Quinn doesn't get the stat because Dickerson is allowed to work downfield, though he is interfered with.  The key is replacement value.  Consider that Quinn gets to the QB quicker than Ah You does in the fail example.  Replacing Ah You's pursuit with Quinn's means less coverage time needed.  The effect that has on a defense, especially when applied consistently, has as much impact if not more than any other factor.

  The goal is not to record a sack on every single play.  The goal is to change the play, to force the quarterback to do something uncomfortable (see: Marc Bulger in 2008).  Forcing an errant throw, throwing the ball away, dumping it off to a shallow receiver - all of these are the benefits of strong pass rush.

  That's what Robert Quinn brings to the Rams - a singular ability to get out of his stance quickly, use his hand technique to disable the blocker, and close in on the quarterback in as little time as possible.  The potential to change the Rams' defense for the better is obvious.  Hopefully, when the lockout ends, we'll see that potential translate into production with Quinn in a Rams jersey.

  Holler.

Comment 61 comments  |  12 recs  | 

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haven't even managed tor ead all of this yet without being incredibly impressed

when i mentioned this in the thread no way did i think you’d go so hard. 3k. Amazing job.

Rec’d and damn I’m glad I’m a Rams fan just for the stellar output on this site!

Words cannot describe how excited I am by the prospect of having Quinn line up for the Rams.

Bradford to Onobun!

by Infemous on May 16, 2011 12:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Rams brass feels good too

Now, do Rams get Plaxico once the lock-out ends?

by jlcdb70 on May 16, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

no way

4 pillars and the fact that he is an older taller version of Pettis and are already carrying too many WRs I doubt we make a play for him.

I think we look at defense and RB in FA, and O Line depth.

Bradford to Onobun!

by Infemous on May 16, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

wait til he perfects his spin and other moves. Over time and with experience,

hes going to have an arsenal of ways to get to the qb, disrupting the designed play, cant wait to get the season started.

by caliramsfan1 on May 16, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

for sure

and he’s come to the perfect place to do this.
SO EXCITED. I can see him in stat columns with double digit sacks next to his name.

One thing I love seeing from players is a violent explosion off the snap and he’s got it!

Bradford to Onobun!

by Infemous on May 16, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Honestly, his spin is pretty weak

not to piss on the party, but it was maybe the only area where he didn’t grade out well for me. But hey, that means there’s room for significant improvement, not just marginal improvements. Proves he’s human.

Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan

by 3k on May 16, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great post

It made for one of the best lunch breaks ever. It all sounds good and I hope Rams fans get to enjoy seeing it if we have football this fall.

by Sundowner on May 16, 2011 12:24 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

This was an awesome read

This site has really expanded the past couple of years, and it is because you and many other people have put in such hard work for the love of the Rams. I can’t wait until we all can share the great upcoming experiences that the Rams are destined for.

Go end the lockout 3k, that is all that I ask of you and I know you can do it.

Sam Bradford

by Jombari on May 16, 2011 1:03 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

great post but i was already pumped about what quinn can bring to rams

what id really love to see is a post rationalizing our head scratching picks that followed quinn

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."

by Buck Nasty87 on May 16, 2011 1:16 PM CDT reply actions  

I think this is first in a series

and hopefully skeptics like ourselves can be won over by some insightful analysis!

Bradford to Onobun!

by Infemous on May 16, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's been many explaining those picks

You just fail to realize it

Get some impact players!!

by RG31 on May 16, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's coming

next post is on 2-TE systems, then one on Salas and Pettis. Then it’s on to 2010 Rams game tape. Lots of work for me to do.

Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan

by 3k on May 16, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

thats what im talking about

keep up the good work 3k

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."

by Buck Nasty87 on May 16, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

NICE!

Robert brings a lot to the table with his ability to not only get to the quarterback but also force fumbles.. Like you said, “The goal is not to record a sack every single play. It’s to change the play.” Takeaways control the game. Not only does it rob the other team of a chance to score, it also gives us amazing position depending on where it happens.

by BrandonJCobb on May 16, 2011 1:29 PM CDT reply actions  

Actually

It’s bearmanpig. 50% bear 50 man 50 pig

Seahags, seachickens, seabitches, seafags, seasucks, anyone else got more names?

by kylew1 on May 16, 2011 1:33 PM CDT reply actions  

Wow

you’re super serial

Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan

by 3k on May 16, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Excellent post, as always.

It just further extinguishes any reservations about drafting the man. Regardless of who the opposition is at T in the clips, it’s a beautiful demonstration of how Quinn’s talent will translate to the NFL game.

Was he 50% pig and 50% manbear? Or was it 50% bear and 50% pigman?

"Fac Fortia et Patere"

by FailureDrill on May 16, 2011 1:35 PM CDT reply actions  

I just don't see Quinn's explosive first step...in any of his highlight vids.

First, I want to say how impressed I am by all the informative article/posts 3K and all the other contributors here at TST. I just really appreciate the thoughtful and insightful concepts put forth.

Now, onto the RDE/Quinn topic. I’m very happy with him…but I must say that I really do NOT see that explosive first step that everyone seems to see. I think Quinn is slow of the snap, in fact. However, he does have “build up” speed rushing ability that allows him to do well in closing and pursuit. I just don’t see the explosive 1st step. Even these vids of him don’t really show that 1st step. The DT (Austin?) gets off faster!!!

In the first vid, Quinn & Copley are unblocked….and so, is not really a good example to show that explosive first step.
If anyone can find a definitive vid demonstrating that, I’d appreciate it. I’m NOT saying Quinn will not be successful, I think he’s a got a good chance as anyone.

Anyway, I am on the HERD board alot but, due to the tremendous Rams coverage….
will now include TST in my daily readings.

Great job to ALL contributors and to the Admins that create such a great atmosphere for a respectful discourse!!

[IMG]http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr197/warengine2008/Bradford_2.jpg[/IMG]

"L'audace, l'audace. Toujours l'audace!"

by SunTzu_vs_Camus on May 16, 2011 2:18 PM CDT reply actions  

I'd agree that his first step isn't elite

I’d put Adrian Clayborn and Aldon Smith over Quinn for first step, but these are pretty small sample sizes. He’s definitely not slow to get off the ball, IMO.

Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan

by 3k on May 16, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

You've gotta look real close to see what Quinn does about that explosive first step-

I’ve posted before about a setup, so here goes-
Notice that Quinn COULD pounce the LT immediately, but that would be to his detriment against some LTs. What he does is to PRE_POSITION his first step to make the LT commit to his move. It’s like the safety showing his hand to soon on a blitz-Some LT’s will telegraph their first move. Quinn wants to create the condition where the LT OVER-REACTS and gets his left arm to high and invites Quinn to hook him under with his left arm as shown. NOW Quinn has him because if the LT stays with him, he will be at Quinn’s back, in danger of drawing a holding flag unless he lets Quinn go. I think that’s why Quinn will show explosion against some LTs, and not others. That Quinn is a smart puppy to set certain LTs up one way, another differently-

by Knoxfan on May 16, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I used to blast Chris Long for being last off the line every snap a couple of years ago

 Every. Freakin. Snap.

It made me insane. He also used to get run out of the box by tight ends. For those of you watching closely, the guys who will record games and look for Quinn or anyone else, know that most guys can and will improve. Long has come into his own now, but he should improve with Quinn on the other side. Might take a year, maybe less if we’re lucky.

by CoachConnors on May 16, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah i hope people can be patient with quinn

because it might take him a couple years to become a real force. the guy missed an entire year of football and is still very young and needs to put on a few lbs. but i can see him becoming a double digit player as long as that tumor of his doesnt cause any problems

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds."

by Buck Nasty87 on May 16, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's a rookie

Quinn looks promising but most rookies have consistancy issues. It’d be unrealistic to expect him to be any different.

Should be fun for Spagnuolo to work with him, and the both of them together. With him and Long and Selvie, Spagnuolo has a mix of skills to tinker with, maybe not on a telnt par with his old NYG’s yet, but varied skills for sure.

I’m not really worried about the tumor, since the Dr’s have admitted it’s an unknown and they don’t have any negative or positive prior cases to go by. No evidence is no evidence.

by CoachConnors on May 16, 2011 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

An interesting defensive possibility...

  What about pulling a Texan’s/Mario Williams and having a play that puts both Quinn and Long on one side, with one of them being the OLB for on the play?

by Douglas M on May 16, 2011 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

More Film Study

Great job. Please add more film breakdown; it is interesting.

by ValdezY on May 16, 2011 2:58 PM CDT reply actions  

beast

he’s looking at the first round if he has a solid 2011 season.

Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan

by 3k on May 16, 2011 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yo 3k

I love the way you doing this series its like every time it gets better and better.

 I might make some post behind. Something like a quick look at how they will impact our team this year and ion the future. I can write one about Lance and the other TE’s. Also I should be able to come up with Austin and Greg post.

Is that great man formally known as Tevin T. Broner, also I'm on twitter T_bron

by Tevin Broner on May 16, 2011 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Quinn is in a perfect system to maximize his talents

He won’t have to start his first year and can learn technique watching Hall and Long. Look for him to start in year 2. He has the kind of athletic ability we have not had in a DE. Long get’s the most of his athletic ability with relentless desire but Quinn can take it to the next level. He should watch tape of Dwight Freeney to learn that spin move.

by 2cents on May 16, 2011 5:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Already rec'd, but gotta say, I love this kind of piece.

My favorite part about football analysis is seeing the details that go into a successful play or player. Seeing what goes into a play that results in a sack is infinitely cooler than just reading the stat sheets.

by Abrantes on May 16, 2011 10:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Actually, that's not a bad idea

the rotation effort would make for a good piece. I don’t know if I can grab tape back from Spags’ days in NY, but I’ll look into it.
  The intent is to have an anchor nose, Robbins or otherwise, and rotate agile guys through the other spot, whether they be traditional DEs or fleet DTs. It’s not a powerful, run-stopping approach by any means.

Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan

by 3k on May 17, 2011 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

A long time ago (I think) didn't Denver have the lightest D-Line in the NFL?

Fast fleet footed lineman called the “Orange Crush”? maybe not-just a memory-

by Knoxfan on May 17, 2011 1:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't know about those two-I'll have to look them up

PS-I’v been to that galaxy far far away-Thats where I married Jaba the Hut-

by Knoxfan on May 17, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

C'mon, Think way back Knox buddy...Lyle and John were the chief members of the "Orange Crush" in 1977.

Denver managed to beat out Oakland and made it to their 1st SB, but bowed 27-10 to Tom Landry and the “Boys.”

by RamChop on May 17, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

1977?? whoa! that's waaaaaaay before I got interested in FB.

Back then I was still a skinny runt getting sand kicked in my face. So I took Geritol and bulked up! Then I got whooped out of every bar from Seattle to Tampa. Uge! More fun to laugh than to confront-

by Knoxfan on May 17, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Alzado probably took a lil sumthin too.

Although I think he recanted it later, he was one of the first guys to admit steroid use. Undersized but a little crazy, which is great if you’re a D-lineman and don’t care about penalties too much. Back when he played there wasn’t such an emphasis on playing nice, so being an animal was a plus. These days, if you get an Offensive player like Incognito going nuts, it’s more drive-killer than man-killer

by CoachConnors on May 18, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Incredibly tough

especially in run defense. And if Spags is leaning towards some kind of small ball rotation in the passing game, somebody better get to the QB quickly every single passing play.

Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan

by 3k on May 17, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Doesn't it seem to be pointing that way?

Look at the LBs and safeties-better at blitzing than coverage. Murf is a good example. Tough run stuffer, good on the blitz package, ho hum on coverage.

by Knoxfan on May 17, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

we're seeing that less and less in todays game

Qbs are saying they prefer a 5 wide set over a max protect so that the defense is stretched and unable to cover all the guys if they want to send heat.

Ideally we’d hope so, but really the key to beating the spread, or at least I think it is, is to send 5 guys and have them beat the OLine and get to the QB while the quick routes are taken care of. may expose us deep though etc.

Its all complex stuff way above my knowledge but pieces like this really help with understanding it all!

Bradford to Onobun!

by Infemous on May 17, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

What a Great Post !!!

My hat’s off to you 3k. You did a great job with this.

Go Rams!

"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now." --- Bruce Coslett, New York Jets Head Coach circa 1990s

by Nbr1RamFan on May 17, 2011 4:05 PM CDT reply actions  

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