Up the Middle: Let's Talk Interior DL
by Zoo on May 14, 2011 9:22 PM CDT
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Print"if fred robbins shows his age our entire defense is sunk"
This is a quote from nodisrespect in the comments of another Fanpost.
As always, this is an editorial interspersed with casual research. Feel free to correct any misinformation that I write. This also is my first slightly negative fanpost. New things everyday, eh?
However, I don't have much research or editorial material to present, but I want to raise discussion on this issue so I'll keep this post short. nodisrespect's quote summarizes what I think is the looming concern for our free agency. I like to use bullets because they are easier to read than a block of text, so here goes:
- Fred Robbins held our interior defensive line together last year. If he gets injured, our rotation loses one of our only starters and forces a rotational guy like Gary Gibson to start playing a role that he really isn't qualified to handle. At age 34, both injury and decline in play should be major concerns. Without Robbins, our defensive line will fall apart, and a run defense cannot be a single star MLB.
- Drafting woes. The offseason has been reduced to the NFL draft because of the danged lockout. Spags received a lot of criticism for deferring to McDaniels' plans and drafting a TE when quality defensive tackles (Marvin Austin and Terrell McClain) were both still available. While in the big picture, it does make more sense to put our offense at a higher priority than our defense in this year's draft, but in 2012, unless we make a major FA move, we MUST draft a starter at DT in 2012. This does not have to be in the first round, but if this year's draft proves anything, plenty of quality players can still be found in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
- Ferocious four? After our first round pick of Robert Quinn, I've seen this term thrown around as a fun nickname for our defensive line. I cannot agree with this name. While I love Quinn and am certain that he's going to dominate some quarterbacks, he is a pass rush specialist and a good (not elite) run stopper. In the 2011 draft, we did next to nothing to address the potential (Fred Robbins) gaping hole in the middle of our defensive line. If this issue is not addressed in the FA, the hole will remain while we terrorize on the edges.
If we want to keep this in terms of "famous fours", we can be the Fantastic Four. The Human Torch (Robert Quinn) blazes past OT's and nothing can stop The Thing (Chris Long). Who's left in the middle? A stretchy Mr. Fantastic and nothing... oh wait, that's the Invisible Woman. - Pass Defense-centric. Our 2011 draft seemed to focus on our pass defense more than our run defense. This makes some sense considering that in yards allowed, our Run Defense (113 yds/g 17th in NFL) ranked slightly ahead of our Pass Defense (224 yds/g 19th in NFL). Also, the untimely departure of OJ Atogwe forced us to address the safety position. However 113 yards/game is not the mark of an elite defense. And our draft seemed to be all for the passing:
1 DE, 2 Safeties, 1 CB, 1 OLB - FA Offseason. Hopefully, the lockout will end in time for a free agent period, but things are looking glum in the NFL. Ideally, our FO can fulfill the speculation and pick up Barry Cofield from New York. He's definitely becoming a FA, and the question is if we can put out the incentives and cash to entice him to Spag's defense. If we do get a young starter like Cofield (only 27), the need of DT is pushed back from our 2012 draft board, freeing us up to find other positions or draft a later round DT.
- Clifton Ryan. First of all, what ever happened to this guy? He was our 2007 fifth round pick and looked like a playmaker in his debut season. He didn't start a single game but still managed to pick up 2 sacks and 3 forced fumbles. Gradually, he worked his way up to 15 starts by the 2009 season and produced a decent play each year, starting at DT and averaging 34 tackles a year. Last year, he was put on the IR because of a serious migraine issue, but hopefully that can be resolved. I feel like Ryan has become a forgotten member of the Rams DL. He is a good player.
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Wasn't Clifton Ryan the guy who had migraines all last season?
I heard that he is gone, from a couple of sources. Of course its nothing concrete yet. However I think the Rams NEED to do something this off season about DT. I know some people say that DT wasn’t important in Spags system. However I would say that we weren’t good until we got Robbins. If we can get a FA hopeful the Giants DT. Then we can hope that one of the other guys develop, and focus on other needs in 2012.
Is that great man formally known as Tevin T. Broner, also I'm on twitter T_bron
Even Ryan thinks he gone bro
He deleted all his rams info off of his twitter page, yeah ive heard from a source close to ryan he is all but gone from the rams.
Keepin it KFC as always (Kool, Funky, & Clean)
Even if we get Cofield
we will still need another DT next year. We currently need someone to play alongside Robbins and next year we will need someone to take over from him.
Also
If it wasn’t so true, I’d have been able to laugh at the your Fantastic 4 comment.
We will need one
But if we can get Cofield, and one of those players like Cudjo can develop some we will be okay. Remember Spags does change the D line on passing downs, so if we can get an average run stuffer we will be okay. I think we get Cofield and an OLB and our front seven will be pretty nice.
Is that great man formally known as Tevin T. Broner, also I'm on twitter T_bron
Your post is factual, not negative. Some people will ultimately complain because you speak the truth about gaping holes at DT.
We have to have a credible DT pretty quick. And if Robbins declines, as should be expected at age 34, we’ll need two. If I were an OC preparing to play the Rams, I’d focus on the weak interior line and exploit the pitiful OLB’s and the new empty space at safety.
Gaping holes
Is quite an exaggeration.
The truth is always the right answer....
by Pekka for Predator Pontiff on May 15, 2011 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Relatively...
To a 320 lb NFL-caliber run blocking guard, the worn-out bodies of our second string rotational linemen after trying to play a full start might as well be empty field by the time we reach the 4th quarter.
Yes, there will still be a ~300 lb body there, but in terms of the NFL, a rotational linemen trying to play a full game against quality guards (ie, San Francisco) will not be enough resistance to stop an entire offense. Sure we might limit them to 5 yards per carry on average maybe, but is anyone satisfied with allowing 5 yards per carry?
Conversely
An offense that can score TDs will force the opposition to pass in the 4th Qtr so in theory if our if our TE an WRs we drafted pan out and we can build larger leads then that should take the pressure off the DTs that seem to have worn down at the end of games last season. In particular I believe had we been able to score when we should have against TB, ATL, SF and KC we would have won 2-3 of those games.
I believe I’d went DT over TE in the 2nd round of the draft but I have faith there was strategy in the decision. We don’t have access to the inside information but I have faith that Spags is capable of fielding a defense that can manage games well enough for us to compete and win.
I absolutely believe Quinn was a great pick. Given the choice I’ll always go with the defensive player that disrupts the passing game the most. Run stopping DTs aren’t that hard to acquire and there will be one available in next year’s draft. Also Quinn seems quick enough that he should provide at least some protection to our below average outside linebackers. If Quinn is as good as he’s been advertised we should be able to generate pressure without blitzing all the time and hopefully he’ll be athletic enough to take down scrambling QBs. Also he seems like a DE that you could drop into some coverages and expect to make plays.
I was watching the end of Super Bowl 34 yesterday and I remember Demarco Farr commenting on how gassed the pass rushers were on the last few plays. The way Spags plays rotation to keep a fresh pass rush is smart and a 3rd DE isn’t a luxury pick in his system it’s as much a need as a starting DT… maybe more of a need.
This FO better start making some decent moves acquiring FAs and I have hope that they will since we are no longer a team players won’t sign with.
I am concerned at some of the holes still left on the roster but face it overall this team is a hell of a lot better than it was four years ago. I don’t believe last year was a fluke or a product of a weak schedule but rather the maturing of a team. It’s easy to get caught up in looking at what you don’t have and overlook what you do have. All teams have their holes and much of being successful in the NFL comes down to managing your weakness in a manor that allows you to win. I see no reason to get all down in the dumps just because we didn’t draft according to some fictional laundry list of weak positions. Let’s see how the team comes together before we jump all over Devaney and Spags.
We don't have opposing viewpoints.
Most of what you mentioned was also mentioned, but not addressed as in detail, in the Fanpost. I praised the FO for their picks of offensive weapons. The extension of that would be that the more points we score should take some of the pressure off of the defense to make close stops near the end of the game. I also am a huge fan of the Robert Quinn pick, another fact which I mentioned in the Fanpost.
The overall goal of the Fanpost was to analyze and raise concern about a single positonal need on the Rams roster which I personally think is the most pertinent to address this offseason.
Will Robert Quinn help? Yes, but not directly filling the DT position.
Will the receivers help? Yes, but again, they do nothing to fill the hole on the depth chart for DT.
And also, if a team notices that they can consistently gash us for yards by running the ball straight up the middle, then they’ll either be in the lead by the 4th quarter, or play wisely and continue to attack where they have had success. There’s no need to get too broad in our look at the defense.
I’m focusing on defensive tackles in this post. Please don’t misinterpret my views.
I love this quote
Perfectly encapsulates what I feel, although I was and still am a little aggrieved at the perceived neglecting of some of the needs in the draft.
I don’t believe last year was a fluke or a product of a weak schedule but rather the maturing of a team. It’s easy to get caught up in looking at what you don’t have and overlook what you do have. All teams have their holes and much of being successful in the NFL comes down to managing your weakness in a manor that allows you to win.
Bradford to Onobun!
Taking DT over TE in the 2nd will get you killed. The strategy in the decision was
to take the player with the most talent, whether he was a TE or DT. Just turned out to be a TE. I really like what you said about not getting all down in the dumps just because we didn’t draft to a list of weak positions, because I think that the surest way to screw your team.
by CoachConnors on May 21, 2011 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Exageration? 5 YPC is about as realistic as the world ending tonight.
I know this will probably rub some people the wrong way but, if you want Reality, then Reality is no team in entire NFL gave up 5 YPC, and thinking the Rams might completely fall off the board because of the absence of Fred Robbins or Clifton Ryan is ridiculous. Seriously, someone thinks they contribute so much that they’d sink an average NFL run defense to last in the league?
I heard from a source close to the team that it isn’t going to happen.
by CoachConnors on May 22, 2011 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions
No one remembers the "Fearsome Foursome"?
Great D-lines of the past have usually only had 3 of the four positions with outstanding athletes. We are well on our way at D-End, but sadly in search of The impact D-tackle or tackles to flush QBs abd RBs away from the hole toward the edge. Our historical solid OLB play has been less than stellar recently. When the defense is built. it could rival some all time Ram teams.
Fred Robbins is aging and that is a fact.
Obviously the FO seems to think that he can perform at an acceptable level this year. Personally I think there is no way he plays the way he did last year. The addition of Quinn I think may have swayed the FO from taking a DT, as Quinn will improve the pass rush. Regardless of how Robbins plays this year, I think we can all agree that we will be in dire need of a DT within the next year or so. 3 out of 4 good D-linemen would work for me. Sub in other DE’s in the DT spot, put Gibson on the bench.
It seems like after round 3 in the drafts we have failed to find quality players and they seem to disappear rather quickly with the exception of Illinois Mike and Selive. Hey Darell Scott are you still on the team??
I suspect you will wholeheartedly agree with my assessment
http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2011/5/11/2165876/wins-above-replacement
This theory gets my vote… except for the Clifton Ryan part!
this was a fantastic piece
thoroughly enjoyed reading it!
The fantastic four thing was perfect too!
Our ferocious four can be when we get them at 3rd and 27 and can get Quinn, Hall, Selvie and Long out on the Dline and stunt them for a quick way off the field.
Jabara Williams at OLB should hopefully help with run D if he can contribute purely because of his speed. I saw a lot of times OLBs making too many insignificant steps with regards to containment and that lead to big runs or at least sizeable gains (7 to 8 yards)
I do agree entirely that DT MUST be addressed in FA.
With regards to Clifton Ryan i remember reading that he has retired due to the migraine and will ask the league for compensation, however I have no source nor information about his migraine or application for compensation.
All I can suggest is asking him on twitter? he seems like a great guy.
Bradford to Onobun!
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