What would happen if the St. Louis Rams bring in a new coach that runs a 3-4 defense?
Face it. Change is likely coming to Rams Park next year, whether we like it or not. This season has been a major disappointment, and Spagnuolo and Billy Deveany are likely gone. I think Kroenke would go hard after a coach who would hold players accountable. There are quite a few candidates fitting that description, but what if a new coach runs a 3-4 defense? What if he hires someone like Rob Ryan? How would the personnel look next year on defense? Hit the jump to find out.
First, let me explain the basic basic concept of a 3-4 defense. The "3" stands for the three down lineman, a RDE (right defensive end), a NT (nose tackle), and a LDE (left defensive end). The nose tackle is arguably the most important position in this scheme, and we currently have no players capable of playing the position on the roster. The nose tackle is usually the biggest player on the line, is required to be able to handle double teams with ease. They need to hold of the "A" gaps (the areas between the centers and the guards), and typically line up over the Center. These players do not exactly grow on trees. The defensive ends need to be able to control the "B" gaps ( the areas between the guards and tackles) and do not get the glory that the 4-3 defense ends typically do. These players are typically bigger than 4-3 defensive ends and if put in a 4-3, they would probably play defensive tackle.
The "4" stands for the four linebackers. There are two outside linebackers and two inside linebackers. The outside linebackers are typically rush linebackers, and they must be able to get after the QB with ease. These linebackers typically are around the size of a 4-3 defensive end or maybe a little smaller ( although there are exceptions on both ends of the spectrum). Their main job is to get after the quarterback, but they can be dropped into coverage to confuse the opposing offense. The inside linebackers are typically bigger and they must be able to get off of blocks and make tackles in the run game, as well as provide coverage on TE's and some receivers.
The secondary functions similarly to the 4-3 defense, but is perhaps more aggressive, due to the aggressive nature of a 3-4 defense. The coverage shells (cover 1, cover 2, cover 3, etc) remain intact. There is a mix of zone and man coverage and the strong safety is still a big part of the run defense. The free safety is still an integral part of the guarding against the big play.
Now, on to where each current player on the defense would fit in a 3-4 scheme, and whether he is a player to keep:
Chris Long: Long would be a great 3-4 defense end in the mold of Justin Smith of the 49'ers ( I think they have a similar playing style). He would definitely be someone to keep. He also has experience playing in a 3-4 from his college days at Virginia.
CJ Ah You: Ah You is not someone who I would feel comfortable starting, but he would fit in as a 3-4 defensive end, and he would be a good depth guy. He is someone who we could keep.
James Hall: He would be a little undersized, and he is in the twilight of his career, but I see no major reason not to keep him with a switch to a 3-4. This locker room will still need some veteran leadership next year as I expect us to get younger after most, if not all, of these veterans with one year deals are let go.
Eugene Sims: Not sure why he is on the roster right now, and he would not really fit in as an OLB. First cut of the day! Can you feel the excitement?
Robert Quinn: Quinn could be a premier pass rusher as a 3-4 OLB, and he is a definite keeper.
Justin Bannan: He has experience as a 3-4 defensive end, and he was a solid one at that, so - Keeper.
Fred Robbins: This is a tough one. I know I said that there aren't any nose tackles on the roster, but he could be a a decent backup at that spot. I guess he's a keeper unless we can find better NT's through the draft or free agency.
Gary Gibson: He is a 4-3 DT only, so he's our second cut of the day.
Darrell Scott: I wouldn't keep him even if the next coach has a 4-3 defensive scheme. You sir, are cut.
Brady Poppinga: He has valuable experience in Green Bay's 3-4 so - Keeper.
Ben Leber: He doesn't really fit in as a 3-4 OLB, so he's gone.
Chris Chamberlain: He is versatile, and he's a special teams demon so he makes the cut as a backup/ special teamer.
James Laurinaitis: He is the leader of the defense and the best tackler on the team, so he obviously makes the cut.
Josh Hull: He could be a decent backup, and he makes the team unless a better option presents itself in the draft or free agency.
I'm going to leave the corners and safeties alone for the rest of this post. I'm not sure how the injured players are doing in their recovery, and we would likely keep the same group in both a 3-4 and a 4-3.
This leaves us with the following needs for the front seven:
NT x 2 (one starter, one backup)
DE (not nearly as important as NT)
OLB x 2 (one starter, one backup)
MLB x 2 (one starter, one backup)
Personally, I am all for the switch to a 3-4. I think there are some nice pieces in place for it to happen, and seeing some new faces and having some players relegated to backup duty or losing their jobs altogether might just be the kick in the ass that this team needs. What do you guys think about switching defensive schemes?
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uum...no thanks!
sounds good on paper but for me? ive benn following the rams since 1979, and the rams have always been a 4-3 as long as i can remember. and the rams would have to hit, and hit it BIG! with 3-4 defensive tackles, and linebackers, and i just dont see the transition, especially with some of the rams current players.
it took a while for chris long to finally grasp the hands down stance, in the 4-3, but, better late than ever i say. quinn is fine where he is at. i dont see him as a 3-4 rushing LB. he has speed, but not a burner like an aldon smith/von miller. imo, just keep the rams the way they are, and try to shore up that interior line with some quality DT’s, and a couple of speedy OLB’s, and this defense will be formidable.
I wonder how Quinn would adjust to being a Clay Matthews
Beating off the dog is never appropriate when we have company over...... I mean EVER!
by sergey606 on Dec 2, 2011 5:02 PM CST via mobile reply actions
They wouldn't compare to each other that well in my opinion
Matthews is just pure tenacity while Quinn is just pass rush skill gold.
As much as I love the 3-4, it would set them back multiple years
Note to Douglas M: Remember that 99% of what I say involves BS
by King Sam Rules! on Dec 2, 2011 5:06 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I would say this whole year
set us back a couple of years. Why not when we have nothing to lose. Its not like we have a great D right now anyways.
#1 - The MuthaF'in St. Louis Rams: The Rams are better than every team on Earth. End of discussion. Have a nice day, batches. (Connect with us on Facebook!) - 3k
by weekend_warrior55 on Dec 2, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
yes but the players the rams have now arent 3-4 material.
by Mark Jaramillo on Dec 2, 2011 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
most of them aren't 4-3 material either.
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
HAHAHAHA
YES lol. Got that right
#1 - The MuthaF'in St. Louis Rams: The Rams are better than every team on Earth. End of discussion. Have a nice day, batches. (Connect with us on Facebook!) - 3k
by weekend_warrior55 on Dec 2, 2011 5:49 PM CST up reply actions
I really think the only thing we would need
is a NT and another pass ruching OLB. Give Chamberlain or Poppinga a shot at ILB next to JL and i think it could work. What else would we need? The only thing i can say about it is that we would have no depth but hey thats what the draft and FA is for
#1 - The MuthaF'in St. Louis Rams: The Rams are better than every team on Earth. End of discussion. Have a nice day, batches. (Connect with us on Facebook!) - 3k
by weekend_warrior55 on Dec 2, 2011 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
I like the idea
Quinn seems to have a skillset of a probowl OLB in the 3-4. If we don’t have a shot at a great NT though, don’t expect any progress as these player try to adapt. Josh hull wouldn’t be too bad up the middle with JL, but I think we are missing too many pieces, even if that did pan out. We need another corner along with the needs you mentioned.
by WastedPotential on Dec 2, 2011 5:39 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I'm not a quitter, Doug!
and maybe, just maybe, ill stumble upon some sort of ‘out of the blue caption entry’ prize. Crazier things have happened…….
Congratulations you won the random caption prize!
Your reward: A box of refurbished condoms!
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
lol You'll win one day! I have no doubt about it... How many copies of my book did you say you were buying? lol
If I could do it
Anyone can.
Beating off the dog is never appropriate when we have company over...... I mean EVER!
by sergey606 on Dec 2, 2011 8:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Everyone should support breast cancer.
Breasts are a beautiful thing, and we must preserve them.
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
If that lion from narnia was a man, and 20 years older, I'd imagine him looking like this.
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
It really looks like he is on baywatch or something
LOL cant you just see him running in the wind with a speedo on HAHAHAHA. Come on someone please photoshop his head onto one of those baywach people
#1 - The MuthaF'in St. Louis Rams: The Rams are better than every team on Earth. End of discussion. Have a nice day, batches. (Connect with us on Facebook!) - 3k
by weekend_warrior55 on Dec 2, 2011 5:52 PM CST up reply actions
I think we would have to find a lot of help in the draft to switch to a 3-4
which would mean a lot less help through the draft for our offense, which I believe needs a lot more help at the moment.
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
not to mention we only have 1 LB (Animal) at the moment
how the hell are we supposed to field 4 linebackers?
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
We'd have to wipe Ware's memory too, so he doesn't rat us out.
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
exactly bro...
remember mike martz’ offense? how long it took newcomers, or rookies to learn the offense? it took a couple of yrs, thats how i feel about switching to a 3-4. the rams would have to amass a bunch of lb’s, and DT’s, and like a crap shoot, how would you know if your picks would even pan out? just like hit/miss on a 4-3.
by Mark Jaramillo on Dec 2, 2011 7:44 PM CST up reply actions
I like the 3-4
It seems easier to find OLB’s for the 3-4 than quality DE’s for the 4-3. Sean Porter of Texas A&M is one prospect for the 3-4. He has 8 sacks on the season. Adrian Robinson of Temple has 6 sacks on the year with 10 TFL’s. He like Ronnell Lewis play DE but would probably excel as OLB’s in the 3-4. NT: Nicolas Jean Baptiste from Baylor is a guy that could make the transition to NT. He is 6’2 335; he is surprisingly athletic for his size 3 PD and a blocked PAT. He seemed out of place in the 4-3. Slyvester Williams of the Tarheels could fill that role as well. Baptiste will likely be an UDFA; Williams may last until the 4th round.
I agree on Baptiste, but sounds risky to base a defense change around an UDFA
Note to Douglas M: Remember that 99% of what I say involves BS
by King Sam Rules! on Dec 2, 2011 5:55 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
At one of the most important positions in a 3-4. Yea, not a good idea.
If we switched to a 3-4, we’d have to pay out the ass for the best FA available, or invest our 1st or 2nd rounder on a quality NT. I’d rather spend those draft picks on our O line, because this team isn’t going to do squat until we can block.
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
CHANGE IS GOOD!
especially when we are this bad. Why not lets give it a shot.
#1 - The MuthaF'in St. Louis Rams: The Rams are better than every team on Earth. End of discussion. Have a nice day, batches. (Connect with us on Facebook!) - 3k
by weekend_warrior55 on Dec 2, 2011 5:55 PM CST reply actions
We need to much help on offense to have to rebuild our defense.
If we can just get some help at DT and OLB, our defense will be fine. Our offense on the other hand needs help at almost every position. It’s a trainwreck. This team needs to really focus on improving the O line/TE and WRs, or we are going to average 1 TD a game again next season.
Two things about me will never change. I will always root for the Rams, and I will always root against the Niners.
Now is not the time
A 3-4 sounds good cuz of all the different pressure combinations but right now our offense needs a lot of work
by ramsfan873 on Dec 2, 2011 6:24 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Justin Smith 6' 4" 285 Lbs. Chris Long 6' 3" 270 Lbs.
Long doesn’t compare in any way to Smith. Long is too small to play 3-4 DE and he isn’t a good enough run stopper anyways. He wouldn’t fit anywhere in a 3-4. If it is so hard to find 4-3 rush ends, then how do the Rams have 3 good ones?? Stay with the 4-3, it’s what we’re built for and our defense isn’t bad at all. Keep going with what’s working.
I've always wanted to switch to 3-4
May as well do it now. Why wait till we’re actually competitive
We’d have a lot more to lose then. Who’d want to do it then. Teams switch over all the time. What are our current needs defensively. DT andOLB. Needs are already the same. Nows exactly the time
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
by dbcouver on Dec 2, 2011 8:01 PM CST via mobile reply actions
BTW Serg you're missing the Ducks
You should immediately drop what you’re doing and watch. Now everyone don’t disturb me, I’m busy.
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
by dbcouver on Dec 2, 2011 8:05 PM CST via mobile reply actions
yeah i'm in the middle of nowhere working right now
we only have 1 channel at a time and it’s a pain to switch it
Beating off the dog is never appropriate when we have company over...... I mean EVER!
Needs are not the same
A NT in a 3-4 needs to be able to handle two offensive lineman with ease. Where would we get that type of player? Also we would need LBs like D.Ware or J.Harrison in a 3-4, fast and hard hitting. We don’t have that either
by ramsfan873 on Dec 2, 2011 8:16 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Don't look now
But, among other things, we could use a big DT who can handle double teams and at least one more hard hitting linebacker.
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
by dbcouver on Dec 2, 2011 8:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
i put up a list of prospects on a fanpost if your interested...
some are underclassmen but most are intriguing from 1-20.
Hmmm
I’d rather have a big DT and a hard hitting LB in our 4-3
by ramsfan873 on Dec 2, 2011 9:10 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Wouldn't mind getting ryan but I would hope we would keep us in a 4-3.
2 men enter 1 man leaves. THOSE ARE THE RULES OF THUNDER DOME!
Hopefully Stan plays chess
Hopefully Stan was thinking bout hiring Ryan as our HC 2 months ago cuz teams like JAC will be going after him too
by ramsfan873 on Dec 2, 2011 10:28 PM CST via mobile reply actions
wow Nelson Rosario just moved up a round on 2012
With a one handed catch for a TD.
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
by dbcouver on Dec 2, 2011 10:46 PM CST via mobile reply actions
The best defences in the NFL run a 3-4
They are full of hard nose FOOTBALL PLAYERS that love to hit to hurt. They keep you under 17 points and 300 yards of offence.We don’t have the players to play a 3-4 now but we don’t have the players to play a 4-3 either.It’s not like we are a player or two away from being great so I am all for the RAMS to run a 3-4 badass defence!
Rob Ryan would not switch the rams to a 3 4
He will run what the personnel allows him to. A 34 maybe be his preferred defense but in Oakland he ran a 43 and for at least one of his season in Cleveland he ran a 43. Ryan has experience with both systems and will make the choice based on his players
"St. Louis Rams -- Where every year we are 3 years away."
by holtfan on Dec 3, 2011 8:13 AM CST via mobile reply actions
read this you pain loving spags supporters
Heading into the San Francisco game, Steve Spagnuolo is 10-33 as a head coach, good for a .232 winning percentage. Since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970, there has been only one coach who has been in charge for 40 or more games with a worse winning percentage. That was Rod Marinelli
Read more: http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=847021#ixzz1fTyeftMu
Rams Bulls and Mets allllllllll day also i do love white castle
I heard Ryan ran a 4-3 back in the day.
I don’t see us having a good enough defense in the 3-4. We would need 3 new linebackers, 2 new defensive ends, unless you think Long is big enough to play DE, and the a nose tackle. That’s just to be decent in t\he 3-4.
It could work, but I doubt it.
Is that great man formally known as Tevin T. Broner, also I'm on twitter T_bron
What we need to keep a 4-3
2 starting DT and 2 starting OLB. In the 3-4 we would have CL and RQ as are OLB’s JL in the middle so we would need 2 starting DE,1 Starting NT and a starting MLB so it looks like we need 4 starters no matter witch defence we play.The 3-4 is a mean hitting in your face football kicking ass defence!
so couple things
it seems to make sense with the turf, adding speedy players to our team. the question is if we have the personnel and what changes we would need to make.
the 3-4 is the basis of hiding where that 4th rusher is going to come from, and giving him a clean release at the QB. several problems with this though.
1) how will our current players play in the new system. robert quinn has the athletic ability to be an elite pass rushing OLB, but hes already getting adjusted to the NFL and football as it is, and asking him to learn a new position (which it is in the end) might be too much for him. he would need to learn more pass coverage, and rushing from a stadium up position. its alot on the plate. our beastly James Laurinitis is another player i am nervous about in a 3-4. 3-4 ILB need to be able to take on blockers, which so far as been a major weakness in his game. hes a great tackler who reads the play, QBs the defense and is good in coverage. i dont see him succeeding in the 3-4. i have been proven wrong before, but i dont think it suits him. that is assuming the other plays adjust seamlessly, which is also a question. if i am right about these two, that leaves us with one effective player in the front seven. thats not good.
2) its a question of player need right now. our front seven needs are, OLB, NT. if we switched, it would be OLB (assuming quinn makes the transition), ILB, NT. see the problem. IF it goes perfectly, we still are adding a player need to the list, but that doesnt even tell the whole story. the NT for 4-3 and 3-4 are not the same. similar, but theres alot more pressure on the 3-4 NT. he MUST take up at least two O linemen each play, or the whole system falls apart when he fails. in a 4-3, he has another DT who can pick up the slack. very often, the NT is the key to the defense, and you need a mountain of a man to fill that role. i dont see on available.
im not saying its impossible. but i would be against just making that move for no reason. a new head coach who wants it can do what he wants. but we would get worse before we get better and its adding to the rebuilding burden.
עם ישראל חי
סבלנות
נח''ל
Our front 7 needs are what?
Are you saying that if we stay in the 4-3 are needs are OLB and NT. the 4-3 uses 2 DT (not a NT) who is DT that’s stopping the run up the middle no one so we would need 2 DT. Who on the Rams would you say is a starting OLB? no one so we need 2 OLB thats 4 players to stay in a 4-3!

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