Rams 2012 Draft: Thoughts On Change
by ValdezY on Dec 17, 2011 8:45 PM CST
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One of the changes I would like to see is a power dimension to the running game. Having the ability to wear down rival defenses will open up the passing game. Personnel must get bigger up front. Added size to the O-Line; particularly the interior, will benefit protection.
Another benefit is the ability to convert on goal line and short yardage situations without a total reliance on the pass. Mike Tolbert (2012 FA RB Chargers) can be an asset in short yardage saving SJAX for perimeter plays. My ideas for the 2012 Draft:
1. Justin Blackmon 6’1 212 Okla St: 113 Catches, 1,241 Yards, 15 TD’s.Blackmon has continued to be both consistent and productive during his career at Okla St. A well rounded WR.
2.Chris Polk 5’11 222 Wash: 1,341 Yards, 11 Td’s, 29 rec's for 324 yards and 4 TD's.. Polk has size and power. Patient runner who produces.
3.Cliff Harris 5’11 170 Oregon: Suspensions from driving related offenses have kept Harris out of action for most of the season. There is no denying his production as a ballhawk and return specialist. In limited action this year:10 Tkl’s 1 INT, 3 PD. In 2010: 6 Int’s, 1 Int returned for a TD. 34 punt returns for 546 yards,and 4 Td’s.
4.Sylvester Williams 6’3 320 N.C: 34 Tkl’s, 3 Tfl’s, 2 Sacks, 1 Int’s, 2 Pd’s. Williams brings a surprising amount of athleticism for a man his size. he has the ability to penetrate, and also handle two blockers so LB’s can flow to the ball. If he knows he will not get to the QB on a pass play; those long arms go up to bat it down
6. Danny Trevathan 6’1 232 Kentucky: 135 Tkl’s 3 Sacks, 1 FF 4 INT’s. AN OLB that brings great instincts, sure tackling, and an ability to cover quick backs and rush the passer
7.WR Jarius Wright Ark 5'10 200: Solid route runner with speed to get deep.
7. CB Jonathon Banks Miss St 6'2 185: Physical CB and productive: 42 Tkl's ,2 Sacks 5 INT's 8 PD
Potential UDFA's:
UDFA OT Landon Walker Clemson 6'6 300: Smart and athletic.
UDFA OT Tanner Hawkinson Kansas 6'6 300: Quick with good footwork.
UDFA OT Matt Reynolds BYU 6'6 325: Powerful guy. Good footwork.
UDFA OT Jermarcus Hardrick Nebraska 6'7 320 Mean and physical. ROT
UDFA OT Ricky Wagner Wisc 6'6 320: Excellent run blocker. ROT
UDFA OG Antoine McClain Clemson 6'6 330: Tough run blocker; good in pass pro
UDFA OG Lonnie Edwards Texas Tech 6'4 322: Solid in run and pass blocking.
UDFA C Scott Wedige Northern Ill 6'4 314: Strong pas protector.
UDFA OG Larry Warford Kentucky 6'3 340: Strong in run and pass pro.
UDFA WR Danarlo Belcher Indiana 6'5 214: Big Target with speed.
UDFA Marquiz Maze 'Bama 5'10 182: WR/PR with 4.42 speed.
UDFA Chad Diel Clemson 6'2 270: Dominate Blocker.
UDFA TE Michael Williams 'BAMA 6'6 270: Great blocker. Athletic.
UDFA S Janzen Jackson McNeese St 6'1 185: Fast. Can cover and lay the wood.
UDFA ILB Kevin Reddick N.C. 6'3 240. Instinctive sure tackler.
UDFA Carmen Messina New Mexico 6'2 236: Excellent tackler. 110 TKL's 12 TFL 3 Sacks.
UDFA Nico Johnson 'BAMA 6'3 245: Run defense is his strong suit.
UDFA OLB Terrell Manning N.C. St 6'3 230: Fast and productive: 55 TKL's, 8TFL's, 4 PD, 1 FF, 5 Sacks.
UDFA DT Nicolas Jean Baptiste Baylor 6'2 335: Big man with surprising athletism. 3 PD and a blocked PAT.
UDFA CB Chris Greenwood Albion College( Michigan) 6'1 190: Div III All American. Fast with ball skills.
UDFA CB Broderick Brown Okla St 5'8 190: Physical CB who can play the ball. 4 INT's and 8 PD.
UDFA OLB Cameron Lawrence Miss St 6'2 230. Physical Tackler with cover skills.
NFL 2012 FA’s:
RB Mike Tolbert – San Diego
OLB Manny Lawson- Cincinatti
LOT Demetrius Bell- Buffalo
OG Carl Nicks- New Orleans
WR DeSean Jackson- Philadelphia
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Works for me
I would love to sign Carl Nicks. Blackmon would be a great weapon for Bradford and go with Lloyd.
I don't like Polk in 2nd
You can find a quality RB in later rounds… Even undrafted RB.
by rams3!!! on Dec 18, 2011 1:08 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Name Them, Who Are They?
If there is a RB with the overall skill set of Chris Polk in the later rounds; point him out. I could be wrong; so who are some of these quality RB’s?
I'm not as high on Polk as you are although he is a quality back but
I like Robert Turbin, Bernard Pierce, Ronnie Hillman, and Doug Martin in the later rounds
Turf Show Times writer and a proud rams fan. Follow @jmwehrle
by Josh Wehrle on Dec 18, 2011 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
RB's
The Boise St Back Doug Martin IMO, could be a great pick in the later rounds. He has speed and power. I’m not sold on Pierce( Durability) or Hillman( Change Of Pace Only). I really like Turbin: A physical runner and you are right, he could be available in the later rounds. Martin and Turbin are two RB that if available later would justify using the second pick on another position. Thanks. What would you do with the 2nd pick if a RB was selected later?
I'd probably look at a lineman
maybe Konz if he’s available (unlikely) but I would also consider someone like Alameda Ta’amu (DT, Washington)
Turf Show Times writer and a proud rams fan. Follow @jmwehrle
by Josh Wehrle on Dec 18, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
How serious was that ankle injury
That he suffered in November?
Serious enough to miss a few games
but I don’t think it will hurt him in the long run
Turf Show Times writer and a proud rams fan. Follow @jmwehrle
what do ya think of Valdez here Buck?
As I’ve told him, the draft force is getting stronger in him, eh?
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
by dbcouver on Dec 18, 2011 6:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I Love Football!
The Draft gives fans hope; even an Old Fart like me! LMAO!
yes the draft force is strong in this one
wise it would be for him to join us for community mocking at mtd
Turf Show Times writer and a proud rams fan. Follow @jmwehrle
That is Good News
I have watched that kid play. He is one of the Centers in the nation.
yes he is one of the centers in the nation haha
but I would absolutely LOVE to grab in him in the second
Turf Show Times writer and a proud rams fan. Follow @jmwehrle
yeah more in the third round is where I would consider him
but we just have so many needs that he needs to be the bpa before I would take him
Turf Show Times writer and a proud rams fan. Follow @jmwehrle
by Josh Wehrle on Dec 18, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
I like this guy
and he’s got three exclamation points in his name. That’s passion, folks!!!
Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan
by 3k on Dec 19, 2011 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
If Kalil is there it has to be him.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
Chris Mortensen: "You know it's the 'Show-Me' State right Sam?"
"Pshh, 'Show Me.' (smirking) Yeah, I've heard that."
-Sam Bradford
We can't take kalil
If Blackmon is still on the board. The rams need a playmaker. Some who scores tds. Also we already have a LT and that’s saffold. He has only played 1.5 years. Give him time to develop
"St. Louis Rams -- Where every year we are 3 years away."
by holtfan on Dec 18, 2011 8:26 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I couldn't disagree more
We either protect Sam or lose him. The only way we pass on Kalil is if he’s gone or we get a helluva offer to trade down.
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
by dbcouver on Dec 18, 2011 6:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Bradford Can Be Protected
By :
Getting bigger up front; especially the interior of the O-Line.
Acquiring a RB like Mike Tolbert to pound the rock can open up plays downfield. This also makes defenses vulnerable for play actions. Offensive lineman love to run block and take it to a defense. Get bigger up front and let the dogs loose.
Giving Bradford more than one receiving option. The current crop of WR with the exception of Lloyd have not demonstrated an ability to separate or catch the ball with consistency.
Kalil is a great player, but he is not in a position to put points on the board. IMO; do what the Lions did for Stafford; Give him playmakers. The Lions do not have the best O-Line in the world, but those playmakers are making life a whole lot better for Stafford.
this.
obviously I wouldn’t say no to Kalil but I say move back and take Blackmon or Jeffrey and use the additional picks for interior line help and more playmakers.
http://brotherspork.wordpress.com/
The Draft Order Below
Has the rams trading back to the 7th pick in round; and the 2nd picks and 7th picks in rounds 2 and three. Let me know what you would do with the extra picks. Appreciate it!
It Does Not "Have To Be Him"
Nothing is absolute with the exceptions of death and taxes; especially in regard to the NFL Draft.
They Are Two
Different types of runners who add versatility to the offense. Tolbert: Powerful back that is his best in short yardage and goal line situations. Polk: All purpose back that can pound the ball and is a great receiver. Sjax can be utilized as a dangerous perimeter guy. Putting two of the three on the field at the same time can cause a lot of confusion and errors on the defensive side of the ball.
Nice thought but will our FO do it?
Prolly not. We might get one of the other but i doubt we get both. As for Carl Nicks, great idea. Same for Manny Lawson and DeSean Jackson.
FO
I was looking at the RB’s on the roster: Norwood, Quinn Porter, Cadillac Williams, SJAX. With the exception of SJAX; which RB’s could be replaced by Tolbert and Polk and which one would you bring back? I would like to know what you think; and thank you.
Well Cadillac is good when healthy IMO
But unfortunately that isnt very often, so I would say he could be replaced by Polk. As for Norwood, he is a better returner than Quinn Porter, so Porter is gone and Tolbert could come in and play for the tough yardage. So when it is all said and done this is how it would look:
SJAX is the starter. He isnt getting the third downs he used to though.
Polk can come in and give Jackson some rest every once in a while, like mabye 2 or 3 plays a drive.
And Tolbert can come in on 3rd and 1 or short yardage situations. I have seen SJAX not get first downs this year on 3rd and short so hopefully tolbert can help with that.
I Had A Few Errors In The Post
Lonnie Edwards is from Texas Tech. In Chris Polk’s place I typed the name Miller mistakenly. Was thinking about Lamar Miller from The U. I’ll try to do better the next time.
The problem with Bell, L OT, is the amount of injuries he has experienced.
How much help does an injured player sitting on the sidelines provide? The Bills will let him walk, we shouldn’t make the mistake of of signing him.
Kallil if available at 3. If not, we trade down and stay in the top 6/7 and we can grab Martin and grab a pick or three. Some teams will be hungry for either Barkley or BG3 and we are ahead of WASH who will take a QB.
The Bills Are
Out of the playoff hunt. Bell will be allowed inside the training facilities for treatment; unlike last offseason with a lockout. The Rams ; if interested will check him out medically. We all have seen a great number of injuries this year that some blame on limited training and treatment at their respective facilities. If he does not passed his medical The Rams cannot sign him. I think he will be O.K.
He may be medically cleared, but that means we have signed a player
that’s had shoulder and knee problems over the last few years in the trenches. Not a good combo. Pass on him.
by RamsFan1979 on Dec 19, 2011 10:47 PM CST up reply actions
Excellent Point
Are there any other solid OLT in FA or that The Rams may consider trading for? With the exception of the draft; who are some solid NFL OLT that The Rams might look at for a reasonable compensation? I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks!
Rec'd for all the UDFAs
but many of those guys are getting drafted (especially Nico Johnson and Terrell Manning, who I love BTW). Additionally, I’d be shocked if they declare as juniors and don’t get pulled. They’ll likely get their draft advisory rating in time and have a good sense of how NFL front offices feel about them.
Turf Show Times editor, Mocking the Draft writer, and I gots that Twitter too, yo.
"my keyboard won't corporate, neighter will my smell check." - Knoxfan
Thank You. I Appreciate It.
I can get tedious about the draft, I just like to put the names down of players that may benefit the Rams and try to estimate (hope) where they could fall. The Draft is an crazy house every year. The unexpected and goofy will be front and center.
Thoughts
1) I don’t see Banks being available in the 7th, but if he is, it would be a great get
2) Does the team have the money to sign those FAs?
3) I saw in a reply that you mentioned Martin, RB from Boise. I’d rather take him later, say 4th, and use the 2nd on a DT/OLB.
Overall, however, if the off-season went as you suggest, I’d be elated!
FA's
Maybe I’m just greedy! LMAO!!! You are right; signing all of them would be cost prohibitive. Tell me out of the 5 FA’s listed; if the Rams could only afford 3, which of these would you select? Thanks. I appreciate your opinions.
RB Mike Tolbert – San Diego
OLB Manny Lawson- Cincinatti
LOT Demetrius Bell- Buffalo
OG Carl Nicks- New Orleans
WR DeSean Jackson- Philadelphia
Greedy! Ha!
If only being greedy could be satisfied! I’d love them all too, but if I had to pick 3…
Nicks would be a no-brainer. He might just be the best OG in the league, and adding him to the line would turn the Rams interior line into perhaps the league’s best.
Tolbert’s versatility makes him a great asset to any offense. Not only can he be a short yardage guy, he can catch well. I see him as being a terrific H-back, being used in that role now by Norv Turner, who I hope gets fired and returns to his best role—OC—for the Rams.
The Rams need a playmaker, and Jackson fits the bill. He might be a headache with a seemingly bad attitude, but there is no denying his talent.
I was high on Lawson last season, as I thought a move to a 4-3 defense would show how good he is. He has had a productive season, but looks to be a good, not great player. While Bell is probably the best FA LT, it is not saying much, as this LT FA class is very weak. He has been riddled with injuries, and seeing as how the Rams training staff doesn’t have a good track record with keeping players healthy, I’d avoid him. I’d be willing to take a chance if he was a great player, but I don’t think he is. I am still very upset that the Rams didn’t sign Jared Gaither after the Chiefs cut him, especially after watching him protect Rivers’ blindside last night against the Ravens. That move would have cut Bell from the list entirely, as I think Gaither is as good as Bell, maybe better.
I Saw Gaither Last Night Against The Ravens
I understand why you are upset. Teapartier said the same thing about Bell and his injuries. Jackson, Tolbert, and Nicks would help the team a lot. Thanks for your insight. It was solid.
you can say dat agin
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
by dbcouver on Dec 19, 2011 7:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Jackson Is Like That Fine Woman
That you keep on the roster b/c of outstanding performances at game time. Metaphors are fun. LMAO!!!! She may be a " Female Dog" everywhere else; but in the bedroom she is a PORNSTAR!!!! LMAO!!!!
I don't understand....
ValdezY, if you want a power running game and a bigger OL, why would you use all the draft picks on a RB, WRs, and defense? If those UDFA-prospect tackles & guards were really NFL-ready, why would they go undrafted?
Great Questions
Power Run Game- I see this as only a tool that the offense can use in certain situations or specific purposes: Short yardage situations, goal line, and to beat down oppossing defensive lines mentally and physically. Asserting a power run game can have the added benefit of opening up the pass game.
Draft Picks- I look at more than the position. The player at the position is critical to what an offense plans to do.
Justin Blackmon is IMO an all around WR. He has great hands , runs good routes, and plays a team game. An unselfish player that will do the dirty work; block downfield, make plays over the middle, play hurt. Most importantly he can create separation which means the QB does not have to wait for extended amounts of time waiting for a WR to get open.
The RB choices were based upon what specialty those partcular RB’s brought that could benefit The Rams. Mike Tolbert is a big physical RB that is a tough inside runner. The Rams have had difficulty in converting in short yardage situations; Tolbert could prove to have value in that area. Chris Polk is a tough runner that can be used as a receiver, is adept at picking up the blitz, can run between the tackles. SJAX could play to his strength as a perimeter weapon. If two of these backs were on the field at the same time, would give a defense cause for concern.
Defense: The players that I looked were chosen b/c of need and what they offer potentially skill set wise.
Cliff Harris is a good cover guy that can create turnovers and return punts. A playmaker on defense and special teams.
Danny Levathan is IMO and outstanding OLB from Kentucky. He has good instincts, lateral quickness, and is decent in coverage. He also has pass rush skill.
Slyvester Williams has skill to play NT or the 3 Tech. He can penetrate or if needed; can drop in coverage on a zone blitz.
UDFA OG and OT’s- Draft time gets goofy. Teams focus on who can make their teams better right this minute is the focus; which leaves a lot of talented guys undrafted. This draft will be no different. Every time you read a Mock; look at draft pundits debate on TV; it is generally about players from teams that we all know: Bama, LSU, Stanford, Oregon. Nothing wrong with this except a huge pool of talented kids do not get mentioned as often. Matt Birk the great Center from the Ravens is a Harvard Grad. I do not know too many people that tuned in to watch Yale v Harvard. OK; I’ll admit it LMAO!!! But the point is great players can be found in schools that may not be on the National Radar; especially O-Linemen. Look up Scott Wedige the Center from Northern Ill. Tell me what you think about him. Kansas was a bad team; but Tanner Hawkinson was a solid O-Lineman.
I hope that I was able to answer some of your questions. If not let me know. Appreciate you taking the time to read my post!
hmm, still puzzled.......
On the issue of drafting OTs & Gs vs going the UDFA route, our team needs players who can help right now (keeping Sam upright and opening running lanes)… we need guys who can step in and play in 2012, not prospects… and won’t all the other teams (maybe not the draftniks, but the teams) also be on the lookout for small-school talent?
People are talking about the veteran FAs we might get, but we’re competing against the rest of the league for those players, and — other things being equal — wouldn’t a FA choose a playoff contender (Packers, Steelers, etc) or a team with a national following (Cowboys, Raiders) over us?
What I’m saying is: if a player we want is on the draft board when our turn comes around, he’s ours. Not so with FAs.
Of course, Rams mgmt has given us some odd drafts over the years. Look at last year’s: a TE with the 2nd pick, then two so-so WRs in a row, while a lot of other needs went unaddressed. Does the Rams FO think they’re smarter than the rest of the league? I would actually feel better about the draft if our FO followed the consensus more, not less… there’s so much draft information out there nowadays that if a team goes against the consensus, you have to wonder about the team more than the consensus.
You point out the biggest and most important problem
The FO. Good thing it’s getting redone this year because we’ve been coming to the draft with cartoon characters for decision makers. It will just be nice to not cringe every time it becomes our turn to pick. I can’t remember the last time that was.
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
Your Points Are Well Taken
IMO There will be at least three teams that make getting great UDFA easier: The Washington Redskins. Daniel Snyder has done better recently, but is still a wildcard to do something bigger than everyone else; if not necessarily benefiting his team. Jerry Jones; brilliant man with the ego the size of Texas. His ego has led to poor decisions in spite of his brilliance. His ego drives decision making; which can be bad for Dallas, but provide opportunities for the rest of the 31 NFL teams. The Owner of the Miami Dolphins. He is a celebrity seeker; which drives his decision making. Mistakes are bound to happen there; mistakes that will unintentionally benefit other teams. What I am offering in terms of an explanation is not science by any means; it is just speculation based upon a pattern of behavior and actions of certain GM’s and team owners over a period of time. Emotion and Ego driven decision makers can trump the best draft information, solid analytical consensus, and common sense. Their shortcomings can mean an unexpexted bounty for an alert team.
UDFAs tend to prefer teams that give them the best chance to make the team or to further their career.
Often it has nothing to do with contending, but what personnel that team already has.
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
Do You Think
That the " potential" UDFA’s that I have listed would feel that they would have a shot of cracking the roster? The majority of the UDFA prospects are O-Linemen. If I were one of the UDFA O-Lineman on that list; I would feel confident that I had at least a 75% chance of not only making this team but starting. Curious to read what you think. Thanks.
Yup I do, probably better here in STL than in other cities
I think it depends on who we have at the time, but in general those who don’t get drafted have as good a chance to crack a roster like ours, as they would anywhere else. I like Warford and McClain, guards, Diel the fullback, Williams the TE although I doubt he declares, Manning the OLB and Baptiste. I think a couple of those tackles get drafted, like Reynolds and Hardrick, but who knows?
Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf
Valdez - I too think taking
Polk early in the 2nd round is a bit too high. We have to take our shot with grabbing him in the 3rd round. I do like him though and do prefer your selection of Blackmon over Kalil. I just made a long post with my picks in the top 4 rounds on Ryan’s thread. Take a look. If we don’t make a trade which is likely I would prefer to tweak your draft with the following:
1) Blackmon
2) Adcock – If gone Minnifield – If both Adcock and Minnifield gone then Brandon Boykin.
3) Polk – If Polk gone then Zeigler from Wisconsin
4) Kawann Short
6) I like Travathan here
7) I like Jarious Wright here but think there is no shot Jonathan Banks will be around in the 7th round. Wishful thinking here!. I have seen him mocked around the late 2nd to 3rd rounds.
This Would Be
A solid draft IMO. I think that RB could be addressed in the third or fourth rounds like you said. Another RB that could fall to The Rams is Doug Martin. Did you catch his performance last night against Arizona St? He was special! I really like Kawann Short and OT Adcock.
What is your position on
Boykin? If he can cover I really like killing two birds with one stone here because he should be a valuable return guy for special teams.
I Think Boykin
Is a solid cover CB with playmaking ability. He had an off year due to injuries, he came on late though; would be a steal in rounds 3 or 4.
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