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2010 Draft Redux-A Different Route

So yeah. I made a comment in one of the threads the other day about how I'm not enamored with Sam Bradford. I didn't say it to stir up a ton of controversy on the blog, but rather just to ask the question, what if the Rams had taken Suh first? How would the rest of the draft gone and where would the team be now? I know that many readers will immediately hate the idea and will chastise me for even thinking about the subject (as I've seen already in some other comment threads), but all I ask is for you to keep an open mind. Besides, the past is the past. Nothing can be done about it now anyway.

So just know, this is not an attack on Sam Bradford. I like Bradford. I think he's going to eventually be a very good quarterback, but I can't be ignorant of the fact that Ndamukong Suh is an elite football player. Sam Bradford, to this point, is not an elite football player. So let's take a look at some actual numbers, then at some *speculative* numbers.

First, on defense. The Rams defense in not near the top of the league this year, nor was it last year. In fact they were average in just about every defensive category (NFL.com as the source). This year's defensive stats are only 3 games old, so I'm going to leave them off due to small sample size and the fact that the Lions and Rams have faced very different teams. I imagine the Rams will regress to about a top 20 defense this season and back into the top 15 next year.

Had the Rams had Suh for last season I would imagine that the defensive performance would have been slightly better, but not by a long shot. Football Outsiders had the Lions defense ranked at 17 in 2010, the Rams at 18. Suh would have been an improvement over Robbins, but as we all know, Robbins had a solid year as well. Suh though had an insane season as a DT. He accumulated 35 QB disruptions in 2010 according to Football Outsiders, 2nd amongst DTs and 3-4 Linemen (Chris Long led the league with 67.5! 12 more than the next 4-3 DE!). Long arguably could have been even better with Suh beside him.

So onto Bradford. We all know what he did last year. Setting records here. Winning some games there. He was good. But without him, who would have been the starting QB? Many assume it would have been AJ Feeley, the Rams backup QB in 2010. I disagree. I portend that the Rams would have selected a QB in the 3rd round of the 2010 draft named Colt McCoy (same round that he was selected by the Browns). Drafting Suh would have allowed Bradford to drop. I imagine, if I recall correctly, that he would last be available at the 4th selection due to the rumors of the Redskins falling madly in love with the young Sooner, leaving Trent Williams on the board to fall to whomever decided to choose him. Trent Williams is an OT, which means that him being available would not have negatively affected the availability of OT Roger Saffold in the 2nd round. The Rams could have selected Colt McCoy in round three instead of Jerome Murphy, and the rest is inconsequential.

Colt McCoy had a 74.5 QB rating in 2010 and has a 78.4 rating in this young season according to ESPN. Bradford was at 76.5 in 2010 and is currently at 73.3 this season. Not any major differences here. But the sticking point comes down to potential. Bradford is obviously widely considered to have much higher potential than Colt. If you buy into the potential, then yeah, obviously Bradford offers higher future returns. I like Bradford's potential to be a top 7-8 QB in any given year, albeit not quite a Manning or a Brady. McCoy's future returns are much foggier. Depending on whether you see him ever cracking the top 10 or being a fringe top 15 guy would dictate whether the kid is worth the trade-off.

My argument: 8/12 teams in 2010 had a top 10 defense (in terms of pts/game). 4/12 in 2009. 7/12 in 2008. 9/12 in 2007. Great defenses are likely to make it to the playoffs. Suh would have greatly increased the Rams chances of being a top-10 defense this season as well as into the future, but at the cost of possibly another year without a QB cornerstone. 

So there you go. 700 words to debate. Let's go.

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I guess I'll start it off

No I don’t believe taking Suh and Colt would have helped this team anymore than Sam is right now because you assume that Colt could have done the same work Sam did and we don’t know if he could have. Colt nor Suh would have made the impact that Sam did and probably would have been picking in the top 10 again this year and probably take a first round QB in my opinion. Then you bring up Defenses winning in the playoffs and while that is true look at the QB from last year… Mr. Rodgers who isn’t just a pushover and then the year before that there was Drew Brees and another year before that it was Big Ben and last time I checked all of those QBs are top flight. My bottom line here is you need a above average QB to win not just a great defense and a mediocre Qb and to suggest that that’s all you need is just ridiculous. Sam will eventually be a top flight QB when he gets the needed help and make a bigger impact than Suh and Colt. If the Rams had passed on Bradford they would have been laughed at by many…

Sam Bradford + Alshon Jeffery = All other teams are screwed!!

by RG31 on Oct 1, 2011 1:04 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed

And I think the Jets are proving that….

THIS year's the year. I hope....

by thisguy on Oct 1, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

They've also failed to make the Superbowl the past two seasons

I tell my Eagle bandwagon friends this all the time. I don’t care if you make the playoffs year in and year out, if you don’t win the Superbowl than what does it matter? Unless you’re coming out of it as champions, than it doesn’t matter. You don’t go into the season saying “I hope we make the playoffs, if we do, than I’ll be happy.” NO. You go into the season hoping you can go to and win the Superbowl. If you don’t, than that season is a failure. Whether you win 4 games, or you win 13.

It's put up or shut up time for these WR's. Someone's going to have to perform or else they'll all be hitting the street. ESPECIALLY YOU ALEXANDER

by ramswo85 on Oct 3, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think that being laughed at is a lame excuse.

I mean, who cares what the league thinks if the team is winning games? I’m not suggesting that Colt McCoy would have led the team to the promised land. And had the Rams selected in the top 10 again this year, would that not be an advantage to the team? In my opinion, if my team is bad-average, I would much rather be bad for another season instead of being good enough to just not make the playoffs. Going 7-9 and not making the playoffs is the same as going 2-14. The Tampa Bay Rays demonstrated this when they went from 66 wins in 2007 to 97 wins in 2008. Drafting first all of those years allowed the team to stockpile talent which has obviously been paying dividends for the past few years.

"I got to get Dr. Freeze off my twig right now."-Nyjer Morgan

Articles I Wrote about Beisbol. | Twitta | Googer+

by flipthebird15 on Oct 1, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well while that not being my biggest explanation

You still said nothing about my others which leads me to believe that I am right about them. Sam was the best at the time and still is because QB is the biggest position on the field and if you don’t have an above average one you’re you might make it to the playoffs but you won’t win the SB (i.e. Jets). Look at the ones even before Rodgers, Brees, and Big Ben, maybe the only one that justifies you’re theory is the Giants with Eli, before that it was Peyton (one of the best QB ever), Big Ben again and then Tom Brady who are all above average and I don’t see Colt EVER being above average. You might make it to the playoffs with a great D but you won’t win what matters which is the SB.

Sam Bradford + Alshon Jeffery = All other teams are screwed!!

by RG31 on Oct 1, 2011 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

But you're assuming that the Rams talent evaluators don't know what you know

And that is that Colt McCoy is not an elite quarterback. Fine. I agree here. But say the Rams didn’t even draft a quarterback in 2010. Say they lost 12 games last year with AJ Feeley at quarterback. Then the Rams have their pick of Cam Newton, Gabbert, Mallett, Locker, etc. In my opinion, none of these quarterbacks has the same upside as Bradford either. Then maybe the team makes a trade. Or maybe the team waits to select “the best prospect ever since the beginning of time ohmygod,” Andrew Luck. We don’t know, but it’s ok to speculate. I agree that it’s very tough to win without an elite quarterback, but it’s also important to have a great defense.

"I got to get Dr. Freeze off my twig right now."-Nyjer Morgan

Articles I Wrote about Beisbol. | Twitta | Googer+

by flipthebird15 on Oct 1, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thats all fine and great

But off subject wouldn’t be nice to see a Brady vs Peyton rivalry between Sam and Andrew? But yea I dont think they could afford to skip out on another potentially elite QB like Sam do you? Suh would have been nice but not like Heartless.

Sam Bradford + Alshon Jeffery = All other teams are screwed!!

by RG31 on Oct 1, 2011 1:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

* bradford*

Sam Bradford + Alshon Jeffery = All other teams are screwed!!

by RG31 on Oct 1, 2011 1:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Oh it would.

Better hope Luck goes to the Chiefs. I just consider Suh to be the next Warren Sapp (who did anchor the Bucs when they won the super bowl in 2003, when Brad Johnson was quarterback). Skipping on Bradford would have been a risk, yes, but so was drafting him at the time. He was coming off of a lost season at Oklahoma and his durability was being questioned. Now it seems that he’s put most of the injury concern behind him which is fantastic.

"I got to get Dr. Freeze off my twig right now."-Nyjer Morgan

Articles I Wrote about Beisbol. | Twitta | Googer+

by flipthebird15 on Oct 1, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think he goes to tue Redskins

Or Colts to be honest. I wouldn’t mind seeing that rivalry within the NFC. And I think people overreated to his " injury concerns " because he only had one injury in which he came back too earily and he reinjured it.

Sam Bradford + Alshon Jeffery = All other teams are screwed!!

by RG31 on Oct 1, 2011 2:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

i wanted Vick and Suh

i remember ppl on stltoday site saying they wont be fans if vick was on the team lol. if i was gm we would made the playoffs last year and been a contender this year. then we couldakept lewis and seen what he could have turned into when vick left. vick SJ39 Avery = sick fast offense , suh long JL andf kept Oj on D that would have been my team but u know spags loves those slow 4 pillar guys

Rams Bulls and Mets allllllllll day also i do love white castle

by G unit Rams on Oct 1, 2011 6:31 AM CDT reply actions  

thats assuming he does for us what he did for the eagles

would he have been any good without desean jackson and jeremy maclin? i doubt it. face it, the problem is that we dont have any playmakers on offense, and not enough on defense. we need a big time DT, but we needed a QB alot more. you cant win without one and i think that sam bradford is gonna be a great one, thus we made the right choice.

עם ישראל חי
סבלנות
נח''ל

by nodisrespect on Oct 1, 2011 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I liked the idea of Vick as well.

But it seems as if Goodell “suggested” that Vick go to the Eagles.

"I got to get Dr. Freeze off my twig right now."-Nyjer Morgan

Articles I Wrote about Beisbol. | Twitta | Googer+

by flipthebird15 on Oct 1, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bradford vs. Suh

I myself have always been under the impression that a good Defense will normally beat a good Offense. in football, Offenses are more scripted and Defenses are more reactionary. So if you can get a group of 11 guys together that are exceptionally good at reacting to what ever an offense throws at you, well, that’s special.
That being said, and I know this sounds somewhat contradictory to the above… The QB position is without a doubt the most important position in football. Whether or not you find that statement to be debatable, well, that’s up to you. I believe it to be true and enough so that it takes precedence. Bradford’s talents were above and beyond any QB that came out of that draft. And any QB prior to it. Yes…I believe him to be better than Stafford, Ryan or Sanchez. How we utilize those talent’s and what we surround him with will make the difference.
Yes, Suh is a talented DT and I’d love to have him. But everything being considered, especially that timing factor of these to player coming out in the same draft and us needing both… I’d still take Bradford.

by ZamRam on Oct 1, 2011 8:03 AM CDT reply actions  

We can't go back in time and change it now.

So whats the point of talking about “What If”?

by OakCityRam on Oct 1, 2011 9:27 AM CDT reply actions  

Uh, to learn? To think?

"I got to get Dr. Freeze off my twig right now."-Nyjer Morgan

Articles I Wrote about Beisbol. | Twitta | Googer+

by flipthebird15 on Oct 1, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Most of this site

is “what if”

Remember the great 2004 and 2005 Rams teams...

by Marmie is the best on Oct 2, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

a vote for sam

a qb like sam bradford comes along about 2 maybe 3 times in 10 years. he has that much potential. and while a dominate front four would be awesome you cannot overlook what a top notch qb can offer. he is the key to the offense which in case anyone has not been paying attention is the side that scores most of the time. games are won by out scoring your opponent obviously and with the league being so pass happy now in the medium to long term we will be ahead by taking sam instead of suh.

so we have our signal callers locked up for both sides of the ball and now we just need a few better pieces to complement them before we are once again a team that others dread facing.

by hbwb on Oct 1, 2011 11:16 AM CDT reply actions  

Ah now this is where I disagree.

To me, saying a QB like Bradford comes around 2-3 times/10 years is a bit off, though it does depend on how highly you think of him. To say 2-3/10 years puts him in Rodgers/Brady/Manning company. To me those are the three absolute premier QBs in the league with Brees a possible 4th. And I’m not trying to overlook what a top QB can offer, but I’m just asking for everyone to consider what a top notch defense can offer. The Steelers and Ravens are two teams that make the playoffs consistently without stellar QB play, but instead with defense.

"I got to get Dr. Freeze off my twig right now."-Nyjer Morgan

Articles I Wrote about Beisbol. | Twitta | Googer+

by flipthebird15 on Oct 1, 2011 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

So I guess in your mind Sam is a bust because in his 2nd year he isn’t throwing for 300 yards a game on a horrible team. Just get over the fact that the Rams didn’t draft Suh and we got a good QB who has the potential to be great if the team can get him some weapons. And if you like Suh so much just become a Lions fan.

by bobhugehands on Oct 1, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

No. I didn't say Sam was a bust.

It’s only been 1 year and 3 games. And I don’t think he will be a bust. In fact I said that I believe his upside is that of a top 7-8 QB in the league. I’m not personally attacking Bradford. I’m just asking that you look at the facts objectively.

"I got to get Dr. Freeze off my twig right now."-Nyjer Morgan

Articles I Wrote about Beisbol. | Twitta | Googer+

by flipthebird15 on Oct 1, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

this is exactly the kind of commemt

That pisses me off. Tough guy comments that attempt to discourage one side of an argument, simply because you disagree. I thought you were a better man than this BHH

Wolf. Wolfgang Wolf

by dbcouver on Oct 4, 2011 12:14 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

don't forget a line.

Sam is a soldier taking the beating he’s taking, throwing accurately to guys who keep dropping it and still getting hit.

He’s a soldier and a stud and the way his ‘supporting cast’ have been playing is a fucking sin. It’s simply the most appalling destruction and dismantling of talent you could ever see.

http://brotherspork.wordpress.com/

by Infemous on Oct 2, 2011 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bradford Glasses

Hey now, I know Bradford is operating under some difficult circumstances, but let’s be honest. He often holds onto the ball too long which creates some of those hits and he has missed his share of open receivers as well. He is not completely innocent in this game.

Remember the great 2004 and 2005 Rams teams...

by Marmie is the best on Oct 2, 2011 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the argument has less to do with the talent level

and more to do with the positional value. Bradford is a really good QB, approaching his potential. Suh is a really good DT. Was the problem with our team, pre-Bradford, our inability to stop the run and rush the passer? To an extent, yes, but you acknowledge our D wasn’t all that bad. Did we have a problem with our QB position? Hell yes.

I also think you’re way clouded in thinking we just sit until McCoy hits the 3rd. Hypothetically, if we picked Suh, we’d probably either immediately address the QB spot (w/Clausen) or not at all (Feely becomes the guy). Then, being pessimistic, no one else we grab works out (assuming you think Murphy’s a bust), then our only contribution to the team is a good DT. And again, good DT’s don’t win games, QB’s do. Suh is lucky to have Stafford on his team, and even so, they went 8-24 their 1st 2 years with Stafford (the second one including Suh) before this emergence (curiously coinciding with Stafford’s 3rd year at QB…hmm, surprisingly predictable).

All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.
-Mark Twain

by kinzav29 on Oct 1, 2011 7:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Where would the Rams be if we had taken Suh first?

0-3, without an extremely promising young QB who—given some time, some protection, and some WRs who aren’t abject laughable rejects—will likely rise into the top echelon of NFL QBs.

I don’t doubt Sam’s ability to do that. I do doubt this organization’s ability to accommodate those other ingredients essential to Sam’s success.

My favorite words are goodbye, and my favorite color is red

by mattyp on Oct 2, 2011 10:42 AM CDT reply actions  

Don't forget

Colt McCoy was a 4 year starter at Texas. His lowest completion percentage was 65.1%. I thought McCoy was a great value pick in the draft. McCoy has the pedigree to become every bit as elite as Bradford.

Remember the great 2004 and 2005 Rams teams...

by Marmie is the best on Oct 2, 2011 4:45 PM CDT reply actions  

You are debating the 2 positions the Rams are MOST SOLID AT

It is amazing that we are debating the 2 strongest aspects of the Rams…The D-Line and the QB. As of right now, you would have an even better D-Line…with a secondary that still sucks, and Colt McCoy MIGHT have one or two less sacks, but that would only be because he runs better than Sam. No better than the receivers were in last years draft, they should have taken a corner and continued to build the O-Line.

by David5264 on Oct 3, 2011 2:57 PM CDT reply actions  

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