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The Rams and Vincent Jackson

Don't get too excited about the whispers of the St. Louis Rams being interested in Chargers holdout wide receiver Vincent Jackson

Yes, Jackson would be a great get for the Rams, factoring out all of the other issues surrounding him right now, like a three-game suspension for violating the league's substance abuse policy, big contract demands and a possible extra three games out of action if he doesn't sign his RFA tender by Sep. 4. 

Those aren't minor considerations. 

Jackson was once said to be asking for a $50 million deal, with $30 million guaranteed, for five years. That's more than Brandon Marshall got from the Dolphins this year. Though, his agent has since said those were not his demands. A trade with the Chargers would also require the Rams to give up a heap of draft picks, not the least of which would be their second rounder next year. Remember, Marshall fetched two second round picks in consecutive years. Something else to consider, the Rams would be giving up a second round pick(s) and paying the player they acquired like a first round pick. 

Jackson would give the Rams a true blue #1 WR for a while, and could help vault them into contention sooner than a draft pick that would take a year or two to learn the game and a reach his potential. Sam Bradford gave the Rams a very encouraging sneak peak at his enormous potential, and with Avery hurt there has to be some sense of urgency to get another receiver in the mix.

On the flip side, those draft picks could bolster the Rams defense or any other unit. That's opportunity cost. With the Rams not yet ready to contend, does it makes sense to go all-in on one very expensive player? 

At this point, it's all philosophical, the work of a columnist thinking that well-heeled new ownership could instantly start throwing some weight around right off the bat. 

It seems unlikely that Vincent Jackson will be coming to St. Louis.

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not hapening

Vjs agent told the media that the chargers refused to give him any more teams to negotiate with

by zaviex on Aug 29, 2010 11:24 AM CDT reply actions  

Plus there is the character thing...

which is not insignificant for this team. It’s not glamorous to dumpster dive, but there are guys on other teams who are blocked by the talent in front of them that can help the Rams. It may be a year or more before we have a true NO. 1 caliber WR, but we can do a lot with what we have. Really, we don’t have much choice.

by tbell61 on Aug 29, 2010 11:32 AM CDT reply actions  

Yeah... this is a decision maker for me

I made fun of Spags whole “4 pillars” thing at first but now that the bums are gone (Incognito, Barron and then some) and I see the concept in place I feel like they look more like a team together this year than at any other point in the last 5 years. They show alot more respect for eachother and themselves in interviews. They play more cohesive. I really think he is on to something with building a team based on the four pillars and this guy does not seem like he fits the mold.

by stlfan2004 on Aug 29, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hate to admit it but

        I see that 4 pillars quality on the field now too. I’ve bitched about that as much as anyone so I have a pile of crow on my plate about that and apparently my opinion of our 2010 draft, although I’m still guarded and defensive about that.

by dbcouver on Aug 29, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

i'd rather see

the rams trade a fifth maybe sixth round pick from dallas to get patrick crayton wont cost big money. solid player, would easily be our one. he could teach our younger players . and even if we got v jax were not gonna be good for at least another year, even though divison is awful. but that sounds smarter to me

by stltodd on Aug 29, 2010 11:40 AM CDT reply actions  

Laveranues Coles is now available

I’d rather see him in a Rams uniform than Jackson

by MathB on Aug 29, 2010 12:00 PM CDT reply actions  

Huh?!

Ignorance is bliss and way too many people are happy.

by Everett 11 on Aug 29, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

hey said he would rather see craytoon in a rams uniform then jackson..

by Chris Kellis on Aug 29, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would love to see his fantasy team. Haha! With the first pick I will take Jake Delhomme because he is a nice guy.

Ignorance is bliss and way too many people are happy.

by Everett 11 on Aug 29, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jackson is worth a second rounder if you are playing the odds.

I would give a second rounder any day for that kind of talent. Again a draft pick is very far from a sure thing and is really just a coin flip or worse. If we finish the 2010 season with 2-3 wins we will once again be drafting first or second and spending way too much money for someone who may or may not work out. I would much rather take the sure thing (or as sure as an NFL player gets) and pay him the money that is deserved rather than some over inflated dollar amount that is based purely on speculation. Not only that but he will be good right out of the box, not this crap about “wait another 2-3 years and he will be good”. The Patriots won thier first of 4 Super Bowl titles with 18 free agents on their roster, most of them starters and situational players so, that should be a blue print for us. Once again building strictly through the draft does not work since the salary cap was put into effect. If we can get a guy who may help us get a few more wins, he will pay for himself by pulling us out of the top of the first round. I don’t really care if it is Jackson but, we missed the bus on 3-4 great WR’s so this looks to be our only choice as of right now.

Ignorance is bliss and way too many people are happy.

by Everett 11 on Aug 29, 2010 12:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Patriots "won" four super bowls

Just like to point out that the Patriots cheated in four super bowls and while the NFL technically recognizes them as champions, as Rams fans we know better.

But, yes, a second round pick for Jackson would be a very nice trade, even though the second round has been pretty kind to the Rams (Bartell, Saffold, Laurinaitis, Avery would be good if he could stay healthy, Pisa Tinoisamoa was one of our best LBs for years.) On the flip side, Brian Leonard sucked, and Joe Klopfenstein never really even played. After those guys, we are really diving deep into Rams draft history. A guy like Vincent is not available everyday. To acquire a player like him, especially when it looks like Bradford will be an impact player as a rookie, would be a very nice move for the Rams

Remember the great 2004 and 2005 Rams teams...

by Marmie is the best on Aug 29, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

What?

They won the superbowls fair and square. I hate the Patriots as much as the next guy but talking about them being cheaters is just flat out stupid. They taped the Jets, never caught for taping anyone else. Taping isnt that big of a deal anyway.

by stuman89 on Aug 29, 2010 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

idk something that people use in baseball can be applied

surplus value = bang for your buck…. trading jackson for a 2nd round pick is talent-wise worth it… combine his inevitable contract of course and his value dives down…

by stlcardsfan4 on Aug 30, 2010 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Vincent Jackson

If we trade draft picks for him do we also get his dealer and a Hoe to be named later?

by California Mobile CPR on Aug 29, 2010 1:05 PM CDT reply actions  

Jackson is one of the 5 best receivers in football

If you can get him for a second rounder – do it. Do you think we can get a guy with his talent in the 2nd round? Problem is, he can’t practice while on suspension, so he might not be ready till game 5-6. I believe the additional penalty for not signing before Sept 4 is imposed by the Chargers, not the NFL, so I don’t think that would apply if he were traded. I read that somewhere but can’t seem to find it again. Has anyone read anything similar?

by 2cents on Aug 29, 2010 1:10 PM CDT reply actions  

No Way is VJax Top 5!

Top WRs I would rate ahead of Jackson:
A. Johnson-HOU
R. Wayne-IND
R. Moss-NE
S. Smith-CAR
W. Welker- NE
D. Jackson-PHI
L. Fitzgerald-ARI
S. Rice-MIN
B. Marshall-MIA
C. Johnson-DET

I would say that VJax falls into a group of not quite elite guys right under these WRs above. VJax is not a 50 million dollar man. Based on the current salaries in the NFL, his demands would make him the 3rd highest paid WR in the NFL behind A. Johnson and L. Fitzgerald. That doesn’t seem to make sense to me…

by Jigzsaw on Aug 29, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

While I don't necessarily agree with your list...

I agree with the premise (if I get your point) that VJax is not a $50M/$30M garanteed kinda guy. He is worth a 2nd rdr IMO – but not worth his reported contract demands so with the info that is available, I say its not a good move. If he backs down to a more reasonable/fair contract demand, then I think its worth going after him.

I should be working right now...

by gorams77 on Aug 29, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

sidney rice is not elite and neither is steve smith

i agree with every other although welker is probably also less of a threat than jackson

by stlcardsfan4 on Aug 30, 2010 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Football Outsiders would disagree.

Jackson is right up there in DVOA and DYAR, the best metrics we have for offensive efficiency given opponent quality, down and distance, and game situation.

by HuangDi on Aug 30, 2010 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

the last thing a young team needs is a whiney little bitch

"Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that."

by Brandon Birkhead on Aug 29, 2010 1:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Big News! Antonio Bryant Released...

I dont know much about him, but he seems like an interesting player to add veteran seasoning to a group of young guys…Thoughts?

by Jigzsaw on Aug 29, 2010 1:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Bryant has admitted the muscles around his knee

have not recovered enough for him to run his routes as he should. Further, I don’t think he was ever a burner, which is what we keep saying we need. Bryant is damaged goods and I think we should stay away from him.

by andyhawk on Aug 29, 2010 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also not 4 pillars

He’s played for 4 teams in 4 years. He has an attitude problem.

by 81 Witness on Aug 29, 2010 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

STAY THE COURSE

DON’T WASTE DRAFT PICKS OR MONEY FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS PROBLEMS. VINCENT HAS BE KNOWN TO FREQUENT EVERY NIGHTCLUB IN TOWN AND HE SEEMS LIKE A REALLY NICE GUY AFTER OUR CONVERSATION. BUT FACE IT GUYS THEIR IS NO QUICK PANACEA FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP! WE AREN’T THEIR 100% AND NEED TO FOCUS ON PEOPLE WHO ARE YOUNG PROBLEM FREE! I NEVER SEE PHILIP RIVERS OUT OR ANY QUALITY PLAYER FOR THAT MATTER. IT’S ALWAYS THE ‘PLAYERS’ AND SHAWN KEMP’S OF THE WORLD. EITHER WAY I DON’T THINK HE TAKES ANY OF THIS SERIOUSLY.

by Drew Spinoso on Aug 29, 2010 1:41 PM CDT reply actions  

your caps lock is on

by MathB on Aug 29, 2010 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is the way I see it

Look, we are obviously going to be trading with draft picks, or may sweeten the deal with a backup type player. But we would most likely give the 2nd round pick to next year, and possibly another in two years (or some other draft selection).

But I find myself thinking this isn’t too high a price; people think a second round pick is blasphemy. But is James Lauranitis or Rodger Saffold any better then a player like Vincent Jackson? Surely he would be able to make just as big of an impact, if not more, then those players because he is a definite upgrade at that position.

If the cost is a second rounder, or even two, I find myself asking the question of, “will a wide receiver in the draft who is graded at that pick (2nd round level) make as much of an impact as Vincent Jackson?” and I think a lot of people would agree that there is a good chance that might not be the case. Donnie Avery was selected in the 2nd round at about the level the Rams 2011 2nd rounder would probably be. While I admire Donnie, he surely wouldn’t impact the Rams as well as Vincent Jackson would.

Sam Bradford drops back, sees Laurent Robinson in the open, and he completes the pass for a gain of 28! Oh- Wait, looks like a holding penalty is going to call this one back...(Oh wait; Barron's gone, ignore that last sentence).

by Eric Nagel on Aug 29, 2010 2:08 PM CDT reply actions  

He is worth a 2nd round pick - no doubt

just not worth what his reported contract demands are

I should be working right now...

by gorams77 on Aug 29, 2010 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's the price of winning

Sam Bradford drops back, sees Laurent Robinson in the open, and he completes the pass for a gain of 28! Oh- Wait, looks like a holding penalty is going to call this one back...(Oh wait; Barron's gone, ignore that last sentence).

by Eric Nagel on Aug 29, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

You wanna play - you gotta pay. Get the guy in here to catch passes and forget this 4-pillars crap.

As I’ve said before, the majority of TST crew would’ve pis*ed on Ben Rothlesberger, Ray Lewis, Brandon Marshall, Mike Vick, Santonio Holmes, Dick Butkus, Conrad Dobler, Jack Tatum, etc. etc. Ya wanna win some games??? Ya gotta have a few mean-ass dudes that LIKE to play ball. We could sure afford to pay Jackson if we coulda got back a fraction of the $$$ we overpaid nice guys like Bulger, Bennett, Carriker, Long, Smith, etc. And, I’d sure rather have Mike Vick backing up Bradford than the Feeley/Null combo.

by RamChop on Aug 29, 2010 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree we need some nasty mean dudes

"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi

by VTramsFan on Aug 29, 2010 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Im not talking about his attitude...

or his standing within the subjective “four pillars.”

I am talking about his past production on the field vs the production and market vs like WRs. I know that draft picks get a bazillion dollars with no NFL track record – but that is not the way the FA market works. Probably one of the reasons that there is a possible stoppage on the horizon but working under the assumption that there will still be cap perameters in the future – Is VJax worth top 3 WR pay? That is where my hesitation lies – not with his attitude (although I do think that whoever signs him should protect themselves somehow since he is one strike against in the Goodell court of law).

I should be working right now...

by gorams77 on Aug 29, 2010 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

VJ has a downside for sure. But beggars can't be choosers. We gotta have somebody for Brad to throw to.

Nobody is chomping at the bit to play for a team perceived by many as number 32 outta 32. IMHO, we coulda sure used TO, Vick and Westbrook.

by RamChop on Aug 29, 2010 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

So overpay to get people to play for the Rams?

ala Al Davis in Oak?

Maybe its a necessary evil – maybe its not. VJ is talented – so its not like a middle of the road type guy, but stil……

I should be working right now...

by gorams77 on Aug 30, 2010 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

What bout hixon from the giants he just got release

by irams28 on Aug 29, 2010 3:08 PM CDT reply actions  

I take back my post from another thread saying how i felt the Rams should pick him up, but after really thinking about what it would probably cost the team and his of field issues i say hell no to many other guys that are just as good and way cheaper and better 4 pillars types

If practice makes perfect....
Yet nobodies perfect.....
Then why practice ???

by peteyweestro on Aug 29, 2010 3:54 PM CDT reply actions  

My Consumer Guide Report

I look at acquiring players as if I’m looking into a Consumer Guide magazine. It would be nice to acquire Vincent Jackson whom is a good not great receiver. Personally isn’t half as good for what he is asking so definitely no.

by BurnoutJoeB. on Aug 29, 2010 5:37 PM CDT reply actions  

Am I in crazy town?

Vincent Jackson is an elite reciever. It would be hard to argue any reciever is better than him outside of C. Johnson, A. Johnson, L. Fitzgerald, R. Wayne, and B. Marshall. The positives are enormous- Bradford gets his security blanket, the offense gets its double coverage wideout, we replace our deep threat in Avery, our offense may very well be complete with his addition. If Bradford can perform as well or better than Matt Ryan in his first year, I could see us escaping the bottom spot of our division.

As of right now I’m on the fence still, the recievers coming out next year could be legendary and to pass them up…I’m just not sure yet. But in no way can anyone dismiss him because he lacks the ability to produce, the guys a #1 WR, as simple as that.

Julio Jones for Rams 2011

by kinzav29 on Aug 29, 2010 6:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Yes!!!!!!!

First want to say I completely agree with your statement on next years receiving core, there are some beasts coming out which is hard to pass up.

Yes Vincent Jackson is a #1 receiver but my ? is how will he do in our system? Will he be able to pull the numbers he has pulled the last two seasons with San Diego? Now since we do have a new owner who’s pockets are deep the money to me is worth it, once again like stated before is giving up our next year draft picks worth it? For a team that is rebuilding this is a tough spot but then again I’m also contradicting what i stated earlier maybe Jackson is worth picking up.

by BurnoutJoeB. on Aug 29, 2010 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

If the explanation I read the other day

about his suspensions is correct, we only have until Sept. 4 to get him here and signed or his suspension will be 6 games – 3 for the DUI and 3 for the San Diego imposed penalty. Do you see paying a guy $10 million for playing 10 games this year, when he probably couldn’t even practice with the team until the suspensions are over? it seems to me he has backed himself into a corner here and there is next to no chance anyone but Seattle could sign him by Sept. 4 – and it doesn’t sound like they will. As hard up as
Seattle is for receivers, if they won’t take him it makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

by andyhawk on Aug 29, 2010 9:11 PM CDT reply actions  

No thank you

even though Vincent Jackson is a great reciever, hes asking for to much money and gets into trouble. I would definitely give up a second rounder for him, but he just has to many off field issues and is demanding for to much money. Good reciever but just dosn’t fit with
St. Louis.

by brians rams on Aug 29, 2010 10:07 PM CDT reply actions  

He did not say 50 million so let's see what he wants.

I look at it this way; we have missed on 3 top notch wideouts this off season alone (Boldin, Holmes and Marshall). We need a stud WR as much or maybe more than we need a good back up runner. A lot of things hinge on having a stud WR on the field. The biggest reason would be that a defense has to react to a good WR, leaving less in the box for aging power back Steven Jackson to have to run over and also giving Bradford someone that can get downfield AND BE OPEN in a hurry (note it also helps open up swing passes and slants). This not only equals points but, helps keep SJax and Bradford healthy. It may also keep us from picking in the top of every round for the next few years, lowering our salary. Vincent Jackson said he is not expecting 50 million so let’s see what he is expecting.

Ignorance is bliss and way too many people are happy.

by Everett 11 on Aug 29, 2010 10:46 PM CDT reply actions  

We do not have permission from San Diego to talk with him

or his agent. If we do so without permission it will be tampering. Unless San Diego is willing to let them talk with us, and so far they aren’t, then all this is just talk. There is nothing the Rams can do at this point.

by andyhawk on Aug 29, 2010 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Rams won’t do this deal. But from posts of people saying people with attitudes won’t fit the four pillars. Based on Spags coaching, I think he could handle a dude with some attitude… Hints.. Chris Hovan has an attitude. As long as we don’t have Incognito we’re fine.

by Xmisto on Aug 30, 2010 6:02 PM CDT reply actions  

and to mention we were in talks for Terrell Owens.

by Xmisto on Aug 30, 2010 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Some of the reports "said" we were in talks for T.O.

The Rams didn’t ever say they were, and in fact pretty much said they weren’t. You just can’t believe all the stuff the reporters put out there when they are desperate for something to write.

by andyhawk on Aug 30, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

What I am saying is that we need to ask permission to talk to him. I know we can’t just say hey "what do you want to come to the Rams?" From what I hear, teams are interested but nobody has asked to negotiate because of the supposed dollar amount. We need to ask. If they say no, well they said no, at least we tried.

Ignorance is bliss and way too many people are happy.

by Everett 11 on Aug 31, 2010 10:33 AM CDT reply actions  

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