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The Manning/Bradford Investigation

[Note by VanRam, 06/21/10 6:25 PM EDT ] I'm bumping this up to the front page.

The 1998 Colts went 3-13 and finished last in their division with a number 1 overall rookie QB. The surprising fact is that said rookie QB was Peyton Manning, and he threw for 3739 yards and 26 TDs and it was only good for 3 lousy wins. The next season, In 1999, with the help of a decent draft, and no more than average roster turnover, they went 13-3. Interesting. 

Star-divide

In looking at stats from that fateful 1998 Colts season, the first thing that stands out as really impressive is Manning's 16 games started. Manning was being protected by an O line of non-probowlers and journeymen like Jay Leeuwenburg Tarik Glenn, Jason Johnson, and Tony Mandarich. Yet, with a no-name line they managed to only allow Manning and his face to get sacked 22 times. You must remember, this was before Peyton started walking back and forth between under center and shotgun and audibling in Cantonese. 

Other than Manning, our beloved Marshall Faulk was supplying the rest of the offensive firepower. He started 15 games, scored 6 TDs rushing, 4 catching and 2200 all-purpose yards. Without much of a blocking presence up front, and no sturdy FB to hide behind (Ironhead Heyward and Zack Crockett played 6 games combined), Faulk managed to find space in the flat, being the best friend of a scared shi*less QB staring down the rush. 

Ken Dilger and Marcus Pollard were also reliable valves at TE. Each played all 16 games, and together were good for over 50 catches and 5 TDs. Marvin Harrison, flashing moments of pre-car wash entrepreneur mobster brilliance, was the go-to WR with 7 TDs in only 12 games. At the time I remember scoffing at Harrison's dominance, thinking of him as Reverend Ike Jr. I stopped thinking that quickly. His ability to behind the defense and open up the underneath routes for the TE's was not to be taken lightly. Also, he has a bunch of guns. 

Defense, you say? The 98 Colts D was led by runaway freight trains (wink) like Jason Belser, Ellis Johnson, Larry Chester, and a young Bertrand Berry. No defender in this unit had more than 1 interception. Belser was the leading tackler from the safety position. The defense on the whole gave up 444 points to the opposition, and ranked 29th in most of the major comparative categories. 

No touchdowns were scored in the return game, despite the best efforts of one Aaron Bailey. Mike Vanderjagt was solid with the one weird shoe, splitting the uprights  87% of the time, and a pretty sweet 6/9 from 50+ yards. 

As I sit here in my basement, glancing at the lovely Christina Hendricks, whom I keep in a cage next to the furnace- I'm wondering if Sam's present situation is greater to/equal/or lesser than Manning's rookie predicament? 

I hate to say it, but- Faulk>SJax by a nose. I believe the key here is health. If Jackson can play 15 games and score 4 passing TD's, get some of his mobility back and bail out the kid, then I'll stand happily corrected. 

'10 Rams Oline>98 Colts Oline. Is there an offensive line in the NFL that has more potential than the Rams? I know I shouldn't judge something so immeasurable (especially after my recent viewing of GATTACA), but our unit has a very high ceiling. 

98 Colts WRs>10 Rams WRs. Do any of you guys wonder what kind of season Laurent Robinson woulda had last year barring injury? Probably not that great, still- but MAN, this guy could be great. The TE comparison isn't even close. Donnie, Brandon, Mardy et al seem like a sturdy foundation, but the 98 Colts totaled 326 receptions and averaged 233 yrds/game. I never thought I would wish that Donnie Avery could be as good as Jerome Pathon. Come on Donnie! 

10 Rams D> 98 Colts D. Pretty easy one in my estimation. With a few additions, scheme familiarity seeping in, and some explosive young talent- our D should stay out of the cellar. Obviously, Atogwe would be a welcome return (and to all of you guys who say that if we resign him he'll stop playing with as much passion, energy or focus- you have obviously never had bad-breakup makeup-sex, whilst yelling out "THIS is what you were missing!". 

Special teams seem to be a push. I mean, I don't really expect us to score any return TDs this year. Josh Brown is good for 87% in field goals and 100% in PAT and trophy Buck huntin'. 

Spagnuolo=Mora. Kind of hard to gauge this one. Mora was on a slow train outta Indy. All signs point to Spags stock rising. 

Regardless, this is what I've personally learned from little trip back to 1998. 

1. I'm glad I was a Rams fan and not a Colts fan in 1998. 

2. TE production and sacks allowed are stats we should be scrutinizing.

3. Even the glorious Sir Peyton Manning threw more INTs than TDs his rookie year. 

4. In the offseason the Colts traded away their best player because of team chemistry concerns. The next season they went  13-3. (Dude, do you guys realize how lucky we were that we drafted Torry Holt in '99? The first 10 picks of that draft read like roster of the all-time Insane Asylum Team. Of all our bad drafting, we really lucked out there.)

5. They stayed healthy, relatively speaking. I don't know much about this new trainer the Rams brought in, but hopefully he has something in his bag other than dirt to rub on injuries. 

6. Manning was a big, studious, accurate QB. Sam is a big, studious, accurate QB. His situation could be worse, and I for one am very excited to see Sam heroically lose 13 games and throw 28 interceptions if that means what it meant for Manning. And yes, barring cancellation, Sam should host SNL before 2016. 

 

Congrats to those who made any type of sense of this incoherent rambling. Maybe I should have included an Olivia Munn shot halfway through? Maybe next time. Oh and for the record, I was just kidding in good jest. I live in California where basements aren't allowed. Or are they?

As always Go Rams, and let's get those 3 wins!!

Poll
Would a 3-13 season seem like progress if Bradford stays healthy and puts up statistics similar to Manning's rookie numbers?
You betchya.
372 votes
No way, idiot.
71 votes
Don't mention Bradford and Peyton in the same breath. Sam is even inferior to that one Manning brother they keep locked up like Sloth from Goonies.
46 votes

489 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 26 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Comments

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I agree with you on most main points.

I think our return game will be way better than last year with Mardy Gilyard back there.

I also think that the Falcons with Matt Ryan are a better comparison.

Based on our last 3 years I hope we get these 3 wins and we never have too look back again :), at least until Sammie boy retires

by Tevin T. Broner on Jun 21, 2010 10:49 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree the

Falcons would be a good comparison. The reason I chose the Colts is because of Peyton’s resume: SB trips, MVP, HOF status..

Matt Ryan is a little too recent and green for the hyperbolic nature of comparison.

Gilyard over Amendola? Didn’t Danny earn his bones last year, and isn’t Gilyard more of a legitimate receiving option?

block! building kick! exploooooooosion!

by mooseknuckles41 on Jun 22, 2010 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

ok cooper manning is pretty loaded

in highschool he was more impressive then either peyton or eli, he just got an illness that forced him to stop playing football. he is now a financial consultant and manages both of his brother’s money, he is also wealthier then both of them. i would love to be that guy.

fun fact, the falcons are good because they have our old o line coach. you know the one that was turned into a scape goat and fired after 07. yea it turns out he is amazing and we could really use him now. but enough for hindsight.

i agree that we have alot of talent and now is the time for them to start showing it. but if bradford can throw for 3700 yards and over 20 tds, i would be ecstatic. i am expecting maybe 2000 with 12 tds.

עם ישראל חי

by nodisrespect on Jun 21, 2010 11:57 PM CDT reply actions  

How many passing TD's and rushing TD's did we have last year?

I’m thinking 12 passing TD’s would be a big upgrade over last year. … we were so bad …

I can take a beating ... I'm a Rams fan.

by Midasknight on Jun 22, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hope for more..

Last year:
12 TD’s passing, 4 rushing and one on defense (Little) for an average of just over 1 a game.

I am hoping this year will be:
20 TD’s passing, 10 rushing, 4 on defense and 2 on ST (Gilyard) for an average of just over 2 a game. That way we can get our 5-6 wins.

by RBramfan on Jun 22, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice post!

You seen to know a lot about the 1998-99 Colts. Can you tell me why in the world did they ever part with Marshal Faulk? I once heard something about Faulk holding out for a better contract but he only had one bad year (I think because of turf toe) but came back after that and had two years, each with 1000+ yards. Plus, his last year with the Colts he had over 2,200 total yards from scrimmage.

Thanks and Go Rams!

"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now." --- Bruce Coslett, New York Jets Head Coach circa 1990s

by Nbr1RamFan on Jun 22, 2010 4:26 PM CDT reply actions  

From what I gather

from researching the seasons, it was in fact a holdout situation. Bill Pollian was wary of the problem looming over his minicamp, and worried about the example being set for his young players. It was an unfortunate situation, but hey- it worked out for the Rams. The irony of the trade, was that the picks they received ended up being inconsequential.

The Colts ended up drafting Edge in ‘99, which worked great in the short-term. I can’t find any evidence of there being a personality conflict between Faulk and Manning, but you must admit- Edge always deferred to Peyton up until he was traded. Marshall was known for his outspoken nature. Might’ve played into it.

block! building kick! exploooooooosion!

by mooseknuckles41 on Jun 22, 2010 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

3-13? And with an easy schedule. My gosh how low our expectations have sunk.

Devaney and Spags will be out of here quicker than crap through a goose if we only win 3 games with Bradford AND Jackson..

by RamChop on Jun 22, 2010 8:25 PM CDT reply actions  

Really dude? You're just going to flat out take that statement out of context?

“I for one am very excited to see Sam heroically lose 13 games and throw 28 interceptions if that means what it meant for Manning.”

by kswiss on Jun 22, 2010 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you for the clarification, kswiss.

and you might notice RamChop, right now, 236 (78%) folks disagree with your opinion.

block! building kick! exploooooooosion!

by mooseknuckles41 on Jun 22, 2010 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

3-13 I wouldent complain

Sam Bradford is a smart QB, give him time to learn the offense, and in a few more years we could have somthing special.

RAY

by ray c on Jun 22, 2010 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Eh

You lump a lot of people into one category. There’s a difference between supporting a team and all of it’s decisions blindly and constructively looking at what it will take to climb out of the basement. If opinions differ on matters of the latter, then so be it, but you tend to accuse those types of doing the former. It weakens your stance as a crusader for truth.

by kswiss on Jun 23, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well yeah, I'd most rather him start like Ben Roethlisberger and win 15

But his piece was a comparison between Manning and Bradford, that was the context and theme of the piece. It’s disingenuous to equate that to say we just hope to win 3 games this year. You know this.

by kswiss on Jun 23, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

So what exactly are your expectations then?

Considering where the team is at and what condition it was handed to Spags in?

You crucify those that feel they can be a 6-8 win team as pie in the sky delusional kool aid drinkers. Yet you also say that looking at progress with a rookie QB to 3 wins is too low a bar for expecations. So what are your expectations with a rookie QB (which coincidentily always provides a coaching staff some wiggle room)?

I assume you mean the 3 win total is too low if that will get the entire staff fired – so what is the edpjr win total watermark?

I should be working right now...

by gorams77 on Jun 23, 2010 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good question '77.

We could’ve easily stumbled to 5-6 wins under Jim Haslett in 2008. And, I think we’d have been 3-13 or 4-12 last year with wins over the Skins, Jax and maybe the Texans, except for moments of idiotic coaching and playcalling. So, with the key addition of Sammy and IF Jackson gets back to 100%, coupled with our easier schedule and the likely decline of the Cards, we should get 5-6 wins minimum. And, IF we had another solid DT, OLB, O-Lineman plus a credible b/u for Jackson, we’d have a shot at 8-8 or even 9-7. In the latter case we’d need to actually beat some of our division rivals though. Wouldn’t that be a shock?

by RamChop on Jun 23, 2010 6:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I voted You betchya based on the idea that Bradford would develop along the lines that Manning did...

…and even without upgrading the positions you mention I think we have a shot at .500. i know this is slightly OT but i’ll bring it home if you follow me

Wins: Arizona, Washington, Seattle, @Detroit, Carolina, @ Arizona, Kansas City & San Francisco

If Bradford and Jackson play all 16 games then I think this is possible. I know the games @Detroit and home to Carolina will be tough. I still would be delighted with 5 or 6 wins but a guy can hope can’t he?

by IrishRamsFan on Jun 23, 2010 7:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jackson is no Faulk
Avery is no Harrison
Bradford is no Manning
3-13 would obviously be an improvement from 1-15. Bradford needs to start from day one and we need to get him some tools to work with, Avery, Robinson, VTRamsfan’s boyfriend, and the others are not going to help him……….Bradford’s best friend and biggest help will be SJAX………and please stop the Manning/Bradford comparisons, there is no comparison

I Guess It Won't Be Locker In 2011

by JordansDad on Jun 23, 2010 12:19 AM CDT reply actions  

I guess it would have taken him to long....

so he stopped at the title.

Either that or I got something completely different out of the post than he did.

I should be working right now...

by gorams77 on Jun 23, 2010 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

LMAO

“Obviously, Atogwe would be a welcome return (and to all of you guys who say that if we resign him he’ll stop playing with as much passion, energy or focus- you have obviously never had bad-breakup makeup-sex, whilst yelling out “THIS is what you were missing!”"

"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi

by VTramsFan on Jun 23, 2010 6:57 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Wish there was a middle ground

But I guess that’s part of the point of the poll. I think that if he does decent and we get 5 wins, I’ll be happy.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Jun 28, 2010 12:35 AM CDT reply actions  

Thing is, if Bradford can put up anywhere near that stat line then the rest of the team would have to take a pretty major step back to only win 3 games… I know that’s not really the point of the post, but just something I was thinking about… I expect (am performing voodoo rituals and praying for) our defense will be improved over last year, but even last year a lot of us may agree the defense might have looked alright had they not been on the field the entire game. If 3500+ yards come from our passing game, there wont be nine in the box every single down, which means Jackson may actually get a year he deserves. Anyway, if Bradford throws anywhere near that stat line I think we have a pretty good team all of a sudden.

by Rams32k on Jul 2, 2010 3:27 PM CDT reply actions  

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