Rams making a final attempt to sign a jilted Atogwe?
by Ryan Van Bibber on May 21, 2010 12:01 PM CDT
in 2010 St. Louis Rams offseason
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PrintThe interwebs is a wonderful place, despite the best efforts of companies to make order out of the chaos, the chaos still slips through from time to time...and gives us the occasional sports rumor. Today, comes an "update" of sortsabout St. Louis Rams RFA safety Oshiomogho Atogwe. The info is passed along via one of those broadly labeled "sources" reported in those slums of information and discussion, the Post-Dispatch's online forums.
Anyway, the poster details, or claims to, the Rams contract talks with Atogwe.
The actual post is below, but let me sum it up for you:
- The Rams made Atogwe a contract offer prior to free agency that would have paid him less than SS James Butler. The former Giants S imported as a free agent last year had a 4 year, $14 million deal that paid him $1.95 million last year, $2.5 million this year and $3 and $3.5 million in the last two years, with another $3 million possible through incentives.
- Said contract offer infuriated Atogwe, sending him to CA and shutting down talks with the Rams.
- Atogwe's injured shoulder is fine, according to the post, having been worked on by unofficial team doctor James Andrews, and Togs would pass any physical.
- The Rams have told Atogwe that they will not sign him to the one-year, $6.9 million offer he's entitled to as a RFA, but they would like the chance to match any offer he receives as a free agent.
So my sources ( no I cant say who)have told me that last week Kevin Demoff flew out to Cali to meet with Atogwe face to face to make one last ditch effort to sign him...my sources also said that the Rams only made one contract offer to atogwe right before FA began the offer would have made atogwe the second highest paid safety on the Rams behind Butler...Atogwe was so insulted by the offer he cut off all talks with the Rams...about his injuried shoulder he had a slight tear in his labrum which Dr. James Andrews successfully repaired there was no reconstructive surgery to his shoulder it was scoped and at the time of the face to face with Demoff Atogwe was very close to 100% and would be able to pass any physical...I asked my source about the apparrent sports hernia surgery Atogwe had and he confirmed that Atogwe had this done back in Dec and is full recovered. Lastly my source said that Demoff has told Atogwe that the Rams will not sign him to the 1 year 6.9 million contract but would like the opportunity to match any offer Atogwe might get June 1....Thats all for now
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Unfortunate, it's come to this
I believe that 4 yrs at 16M is an appropriate offer for OJ. No way is he worth the 7M, but I think he should be satisfied with a 4M/yr deal.
Current Rams owners are TOO CHEAP!
They won’t spend any money to make Kroenke’s team better. They’ll never get it back in the sale. Too bad for OJ. Too bad for Spags. Too bad for Ram’s fans.
Jason Brown, James Butler...?
just ignore last season…. that’s cool…
but seriously, what do you expect they do with OJ…. he’s not worth 7 million (what he’d get if we signed his RFA tender they way he wanted), and he thinks he’s worth 5+ million, but noone will pay him that so we are keeping steady to get him cheap
4, 16 million sounds great
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on May 21, 2010 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I say match Butler's deal
I don’t think it is too little or too much. I didn’t see him do any better of a job than Butler.
I like OJ
I really do, but this could be his last pay day. That scares me. Is it worth typing up someone like OJ to a big contract? Will he play with the same fire?
What is his ceiling right now?
Too many questions… I agree, match Butler. However, I would still be a bit concerned.
Not doubting you OJ, just a little gun shy with the miserable failures we have had in recent years with big contracts.
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
O.J. Atog
A 4 MILLION DOLLAR MAN? MAYBE! A 7 MILLION DOLLAR MAN? NO WAY!
TAKE THE 4 MILLION, PLAY LIKE YOU HAVE A PAIR, AND EARN THE EXTRA 3 MILLION YOU DESIRE.
by California Mobile CPR on May 21, 2010 3:09 PM CDT reply actions
Wow...I'm a bit shocked to see people are so willing to let him walk
Let’s remember that this has been one of the only highlights our Def has had over the last few years. With a secondary that had ZERO INTs from its CBs, I think that having a quality, experienced Safety is important. Do we remember the amount of INTs, or Forced Fumbles he has caused. As bad as we would get beat each game, without this guy it would have been much worse.
We have seen what a quality safety can do for a Def.
Look at Sharper, Reed, even Dawkins.
Pay the man his 4 mil per year and lace it with incentives. We can not afford to let Talent walk as we continue to rebuild.
ATOGGGGGGGGS!!!!
Why are you shocked? This is big business. They won’t spend any money to make Kroenke’s team better. They’ll never get it back in the sale. Too bad for OJ. Too bad for Spags. Too bad for Ram’s fans.
This is like a Swiss Army Post
useful for all occasions.
4 million a year
agreed, but whose to say he would accept?
in this article, it appears he was greatly insulted at getting an offer less than 4 years, 14 million…..
that’s barely under 4 million, i expect he’d want 5+ million… no other team will pay him that, it makes sense they are doing this
Rasmus can hit lefties
cardinalred
St. Louis Sports blog
by stlcardsfan4 on May 21, 2010 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree, offer him $4 million per year and do it now.
That will give him a little more than Butler to heal that perceived insult. If he won’t take that and holds out for closer to $7 million per year, shake his hand and wish him good luck. He’s a reasonably good FS, but he isn’t in the class of the top guys.
By the way, Sharper is still available isn’t he?
I have said this on other posts
Bartell got 28 mil for 4 years with @ 1/2 guaranteed last year
Antrel Rolle is a year 1/2 younger and had about the same stats as Togs and got 7+ mil a year.
Why shouldn’t Togs?
Just because someone overpays for a safety
it doesn’t mean the Rams have too as well.
The market sets a players value, and right now, the market is saying that he’s not worth 7M or he’d have had a deal in place.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
oh
and i guess you believe bradford is worth $50 mil. just because the market says so?
One doesn't have anything to do with the other.
The ridiculously high pay for 1st round draft choices has little to do with what they are “worth”. The pay for veterans is a lot more linked to their performance. If any team thought Togs was worth $7 million a year they probably would have stepped up by now and made the offer. My guess is that whatever team he ends up with, Rams or someone else, he won’t get anything like $7 million.
+1
Although teams regularly do pay more than market value….afterall, the team that gets the player is usually the one that outbids the rest of the market….I think in this case it would foolish to pay him too much more than his market had already dictated.
The Rams don’t have a guy who can play the FS like atogwe but that’s to say he’s a top flight FS, either….he’s not….he’s merely very good. Then again, with Dahl/Payne, are you really getting that much less? I mean, you have seen Kevin bowl, right??
Finally – Atogwe’s side. He’ll be 29. I highly doubt he wants a 1 year contract. Why would he? To play for a potentially 3-13 team only to come back to the hassle of FA all over again when he’s 30?
by CoachConnors on May 22, 2010 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Thank you.
We really don’t need to be giving big contracts to players nearing thirty because, um, don’t we all remember where we JUST came from? It looks enticing when they’re 28 and peaking but when they’re occupying $5-7 mil in 2012/13 and we can’t afford to add pieces to a solid team we’ll be singing a different tune.
It looks stingy now but I’m glad our FO hasn’t been throwing big money at players in or past their prime. It’s not sexy, but neither was the way the Patriots were built and I think so far what we’re doing has some similarities to their mid-decade makeup.
Not disagreeing.
But i do hate the constant comparison (of how to build a team) to “the Patriots”. Yes they do have some talent. And over the years they nearly had me fooled with their TEAM spirit. But the only thing that truly made them great was a video camera.
You don't think their ability to get players who fit their system had a lot to do with their success?
They had some pretty solid QB-to-WR play in there, too.
Saying the only thing they had was the camera is maybe a tiny bit over simplified?
by CoachConnors on May 23, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
This is not just about value Mr.Connors
Coach as a GM one of the jobs Devaney has is to keep the peace between players and FO throughout contract discussions ,if the Rams act like asses sure any player will get pissed off,and its not always the money ,most of the time its the attitude of the team , the way they come across when making there offer
so lets not be making any excuses here about why we are treating OJ this way, its simple our front office suck,if they think Butler is worth more the OJ then Spagnolo can keep Butler since they both be packing there bags together next year ,and mark my word on that
Has this even been proven to be true?
If not then its just pure speculation written on a message board. From what i can gather its not been picked up by any of the major networks. Maybe this is true and maybe the front office do suck but maybe this is all BS and jumping all over the front office for something they possibly haven’t done is a touch premature.
by Stonedtodeath on May 22, 2010 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Kevin Demoff and Billy Devaney are like two lying politicians I believe nothing they say
And if there smart nether will the new owners
i'm not trying to argue with you
i just wonder what it is they have lied about thats led you to that impression? Cause besides being vague on things when it comes to draft selections (and lets be honest no GM is gonna give away who they like and who they don’t like) i’ve missed the lies. If they have lied i wanna know about it.
by Stonedtodeath on May 22, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Well then let me tell you that they both stated the same thing
They both said that we need and will be targeting impact players ,we need players that can score,we need talented player that can help this team win now.Did you see them follow up on this promise,I sure did not they both belong in Washington and I don’t mean the Redskins.To me if your not a man of your word then best shut up and don’t say nothing,I will never trust what they say again ,I don’t play baseball one strike and your out with me
you ether have a word or you dont,they both never ment what they said it was just bullshit PR
I'm sure they'd say
Bradford, Gilyard, Sims, Selvie are all potential impact players. Players that can either score touchdowns or sack the QB. Just cause they didn’t go out and get the exact players you want i’m not sure you can write them off as liars. While i wish we had more talent coming in i think its very easy to lay all the blame at the front offices door when we don’t know what kind of constraints they are under. I could just as easily speculate that the current owners gave them enough money to sign the rookies but that any free agent signings had to be payed out of the money saved by letting other players go. Now if that was the case then the front office has done a pretty good job under the circumstances. To be fair ALL the GM’s speak BS PR. It’s the way of the world. If you say what you actually think or say what you actually want you won’t be in a job very long.
by Stonedtodeath on May 22, 2010 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I dont agree
You cant be the GM of a rebuilding team and make statements like that on the Rams Official sight,yes there are things that the GMs have to keep from us and even from player but this is not one of those things
the statements that both Devaney and Demoff made were giving hope and expectations to all interested in the team ,now if this dose not bother some of you that ok with me and I don’t have any thing personal with the fans in this room unless some one gets personal
for me the players you mentioned are all junk compared to what was on the board ,not that they don’t have any chance but they are not the top players in there position ,and I don’t see were they got even one player after Bradford that will boost this pathetic offense that is the worst I ever saw in my life,Dont be so quick running to there defense the season is right around the corner and if im right this FO will be on the outside looking in
act like asses?
No one has any reason to think they’ve acted like asses. Every time I have seen/heard Devaney he’s been classy.
If you say differently, than bring some supporting evidence.
"so lets not be making any excuses?’ No, let’s not be using your perceived anonymity make up fantasy allusions to the FO (or anyone else) acting like asses when you have absolutely no evidence of that at all. Thats some punk ass crap right there.
Anyone who read the original PD comment can see where the connection was made between OJ’s indigination and the pay being lower than he expected and/or below Butler. You included.
by CoachConnors on May 23, 2010 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions
You seam to have a big mouth too bad your not close by I could give you some lessons
First of all you can start by reading the above post I made in answering Stonedtodeath ,as far as Devaney being classy I agree a classy politician at best,Oh another thing this punk ass lingo you have used for the second time with me I would suggest you cut it now and if you wish you can use that kind of talk when you are speaking to your kid not me,now as far as them acting like asses that is my opinion in the way they are handling OJ when they paid both Butler and Bartell hefty contracts and nether is as good a player as OJ
and further more I can have any opinion I want about this team and FO and its not your place to speak to any fan in that manner ,you are the one name calling instead of giving a simple reply,who is the punk? I know if you was standing in front of me you surly would not be saying any such thing because you would sense what would come next,maybe all the compliments you get in here have gone to your head I don’t know but unless you are in my face do not be acting like a big man to me all the way from California ,I would stomp on you coach
I'm not going to go back and forth with you
Its the behavior I called punk, not the person. I stand by that.
One of us hides behind being anonymous, and makes claims he has no evidence to support, and one of us doesn’t. I’ll just end it at that.
by CoachConnors on May 23, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not going to go back and forth with you ? Good choice
just to clear some thing up with you, to me your are the punk ass name calling from three thousand miles away,a punk is some one that is scared not some one that confronts you on any subject ,I have only some good advice for you,watch your mouth in the future because you never know what a big mouth like your can bring you,as I told you use that kind of talk with you kid or mother not me,unless you want some one knocking on your door
I could have sworn those bolded words were links to other things
when I posted that from my phone, thats what I intended to do.
by CoachConnors on May 23, 2010 2:27 AM CDT up reply actions
(best Malkovich as Teddy KGB impression I can muster)
“Pay that myan. Pay that myan is myoney.”
But not too much.
block! building kick! exploooooooosion!
by mooseknuckles41 on May 22, 2010 3:11 AM CDT reply actions
I'd give him the 7 mil
Ownership issues aside, I think it’s worth it for the rams to give him a 7 mil a year deal. Bad teams need to overpay to keep what little talent they have, and he is a disruptive force when he’s on his game.
But, that doesn’t mean he’d actually need to make 7 mil a year. A long-term, backloaded deal can make it look like he’s getting 7 mil a year, but put the guaranteed money over the first three years (when I think he’ll be well worth it), then have a ballooning salary that both sides know he’ll never make.
Any time multi-million dollar salaries are involved — and it’s usually only for the highest-ranking business executives, athletes, and entertainers — the precise sum is not so much about “what can I buy with the extra money I’m making” as it is about EGO. Atogwe, for personal validation, needs to feel like he’s paid as a top safety. That’s why you see so many of these ballooning contracts, the really rich years at the end of which never materialize. And that’s what we need to do with Togs.
Just because they didn't do exactly what you wanted
doesn’t mean they suck. They didn’t do what I wanted in every case either, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t right and us wrong. Unless you have all the facts, you can’t make such an accusation stick, and I doubt you have all the facts. If you want to say you’re frustrated because we don’t have a winning team yet, feel free. I’m not real happy about it either, but I don’t know what constraints they are working under so I can’t say it is the fault of Devaney and Demoff.
Read what i said above before you reply to my post
Not they did not do what I want , they did not do what they said they were going to do
They both quoted this same exact thing like a script :we need and will be targeting impact players ,we need players that can score,we need talented player that can help this team win now,They did none of the above they loaded us with more junk and that’s the sad truth,if you don’t see it yet don’t worry you and every one else day dreaming will wake up soon ,and don’t take that personally its really what I believe
I understand that it's what you believe.
You have told us the same thing innumerable times. We understand. We really do.
Continuing to say it over and over is not going to change any else’s beliefs. They have as much right to their’s as you have to yours. Why must you continue to batter everyone with your very angry comments when we’ve all heard them and understand them? What is the point of repeating them so many times? You have the right, but I don’t understand the purpose. Do you really think you will change anyone else’s beliefs? I hope not. The angrier you become, the less others listen to your points.
There are plenty of others here who were not real thrilled with the Ram’s draft, and who don’t expect us to have a greatly improved team this year. However, your approach makes it difficult to go along with anything you say since you go to such extremes and are so angry when doing it.
And the final point is, no matter how angry you get or how much you shout on here, it won’t change the actions of the management or the coaches one iota. Why not spare yourself and everyone else the aggravation by just calmly saying what you think and moving on?
andyrose I simply posted my opinion on this subject
When I have ten people ask me to explain why I feel this way I have to reply so its not that I want to keep posting the same thing but that by replying it just seems that way to you,yes im angry but I try not to express all my anger on this blog,and surely I don’t expect to change any ones beliefs when I can see that most all of you have taken hook line and sinker every thing the FO is throwing at you and just excepting it,but do not be trying to convince me that I am wrong and you and the FO is right because time will tell and that time is right around the corner,just hold your breaths for a bit and lets see how this all pans out
I didn't say you were wrong and the F.O. right.
In fact, I’m one of those who wasn’t real happy with the draft and who doesn’t expect a much improved team this year. I’m just trying to get you to tone it down and all of us have a friendlier place.
And you are right, we will all see how it pans out this fall.
I can see how they are handling the Atogwe issue as well
He play for us with his hart and sole I wish we had more like him,and to me that in the very least deserves respectful treatment ,when they signed Butler and Bartell and they offer him less ,dose that sound Classy to you like some people think Davaney is
nether of those player proved they are worth the money they got Bartell sucked last year right after signing a nice fat deal, and Butler has proven nothing yet, to me his still a Giant,Atogwe is a Ram and our best defender but they low ball him all the way wow
what a nice guy to have running the team Billy Devaney and his puppet show featuring Demoff and Spagn
you are using one post
on a message board as your proof that they are low balling Atogwe and my initial point a few posts above are that we don’t even know if its true or not. When we know for certain what kind of offers we made and what limitations the FO were under then i think we can criticize but its way too early to do that now.
by Stonedtodeath on May 23, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
If the FO had or has limitations then they should have kept there mouth shut
Not make promises that thy cant keep,and im not just using one post im using my common sense that tells me they are handling Atogwe in the worst way by insulting him with there offer,for me that is all I have to see every thing else falls into place
I'm really just not sure where you can claim anything when it comes to handling atogwe
If they wanted to really screw with atogwe they could have put a 2nd or 3rd round draft tender on him. It would have paid him less than last year and stopped other teams from talking to him. There was never any expectation that he’d sign the tender but it gave him an opportunity to test the market and say to Devaney and co “there you go that is what i’m worth match it or i’m off”. I’ve read nothing from Atogwe or his agent saying they feel insulted, in fact i read something that quoted his agent as saying that Oshiomogho understands its a business and has no hard feelings. I’ve also seen nowhere besides the message board post anywhere that says what he has been offered.
As far as anything that they have said if you are asked a question about what you are looking to bring in for the forth coming season what do you say? Obviously you say game changers and playmakers. After all part of the business is to sell season tickets and generate excitement. Its easy to say i’m merely defending the front office but in all truth i know that it’d be the same with anyone else. I also never heard them promise anything merely say what they would like to bring in.
by Stonedtodeath on May 23, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
LARams1968 said
+1
He has been one of our better defenders. Give him more than Butler plus dangle some bling in his face. He’s going to be 29, the peak age, so sign him for 3 or 4 years and let him play. I’d rather see him playing for the Rams than against them.
-LARams1968
(coachconnors wrote: I had to delete a spam post and since LARAms1968 inadvertantly replied to that spam post, his comment was connected to it and was deleted along with it. As a courtesy I am reprinting his comment here.)
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