If not Bradford, who?
by Ryan Van Bibber on Apr 19, 2010 4:28 PM CDT
in 2010 NFL Draft
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PrintPredictions are a tricky thing this time of year. The information you get one minute is contradicted by another report just a few minutes later. Whether or not the St. Louis Rams are/will try to negotiate a contract with Oklahoma QB Sam Bradford, widely assumed to be the Rams' choice for the first overall pick, is the current example of contradictory rumors.
Let's set aside all that for minute, and take a look at the possibilities for the Rams if they don't go with Bradford with the first pick in the draft. Something that's still a possibility, whether or not the trade whispers carry much water.
No Bradford means the Rams enter the season with A.J. Feeley, Keith Null and Mike Reilly as their quarterbacks, which would be fine if the team is looking to go from 1 win to zero in 2010. Marc Bulger is gone, released as the franchise starts to turn the page and begin a new chapter. Null and Reilly are both projects, talented guys who need plenty of development before they're ready to be signal callers at the NFL level. Feeley is the epitome of a backup, and he hasn't played since 2007. The Rams need a quarterback, so if they don't draft Bradford what will they do for 2010?
Jimmy Clausen
Though you may have forgotten about it in all the Bradford talk, the Rams still consider Notre Dame's Jimmy Clausen a potential top pick in the draft. If this Cleveland trade did come to fruition, then it's very possible the Rams could pick Clausen...or trade down again to some other team looking to secure their own QB of the future. The Rams would have to value Clausen similarly to how they value Bradford to make this move. They'd save money on the contract by trading down, but how steep is the drop off?
Colt McCoy
Draft analyst Rob Rang talked a lot about the Rams having Colt McCoy ranked pretty highly internally as part of the conversation about Cleveland trading up for the first pick. Maybe they really do value McCoy pretty highly. The question I have if they go this route is how far away is McCoy from being able to handle starting duties? He's a spread QB too, remember, but isn't quite as complete of a package as Bradford. Does Feeley start a full season?
Veteran help
Though the free agent market for QBs was pretty weak (not that it's ever very good), there are still a few options currently occupying space on some rosters out there. The most notable example is Jason Campbell, who the Redskins would certainly take offers for later this week. I'm sure there are other trade options out there but nothing comes to mind immediately after Campbell...that's telling. Many of the options wouldn't be much better than Marc Bulger. Why would they go that route if they could have just hung onto Bulger for another season? A trade with the Browns could throw in either Seneca Wallace or Jake Delhomme...how exciting is that?
Draft a QB in the later rounds
Very unlikely. Adding a third developmental QB to the roster just doesn't make much sense.
The most viable options here are Colt McCoy or trading for Jason Campbell. One gives the Rams a young QB to build around, the other gives them a decent stopgap solution, delaying the inevitable.
Rumors and innuendo about the first overall pick will continue fill the air until Thursday night. What will not change is how much the Rams need a franchise QB. If the Rams have McCoy graded as highly as Bradford, or pretty close, then that's the only way they can legitimately make a trade. The talking heads can say whatever, I'm still convinced that the Rams will be drafting Sam Bradford.
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I think they are holding out to see how good of a deal they can get to trade down ...
… which means they don’t think Bradford is elite. Good maybe, but not elite.
… or put another way … Bradford doesn’t hold as much value as Clausen or McCoy … and by value I mean cost vs production.
Even if Bradford is the best, if he’s not enough better than the others, it makes sense to drop and select one of the others.
Or maybe I’m just wishful thinking. I don’t understand why there isn’t more negotiating going on with either Suh or Bradford (or Clausen or Okung) if only to pressure the other teams that might want to move up.
Remember, if Tampa thinks Suh and Gerald McCoy might both be gone by pick three, then they will likely move up or down but not stay at three.
So many possibilities …
Yes, I actually wore a watermelon on my head during the Rams SuperBowl victory in 2000.
Part of deciding whether to trade down
is what you would get if you did. If we got what one of the rumors stated – Cleveland’s 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 1st next year, then heck yes you do it. If the offer is Cleveland’s (or Buffalo’s) 1st and 3rd this year and that’s all, then you don’t even consider it. And there’s always the minor detail that someone has to be willing to trade up. So far there has been a little smoke in that regard, but not enough to think there must be a fire. I’m guessing it will end up just like last year, with no one willing to pay the price to trade up.
One other issue. As far as I know, if the Rams would work a deal with Bradford before the draft, that still doesn’t keep them from trading him during the draft. I just don’t think they are waiting in hopes of trading him away. They are waiting to keep all their options open and to concentrate on the draft rather than getting frustrated trying to work out a deal with him now.
Did anyone watch the 'Gruden interviews' with
Bradford, Clausen and Colt McCoy on TV? Great stuff. If you missed it maybe there will be reruns. In any event, Clausen appeared to be a person who makes poor decisions/does not think quickly or ‘something like that’ as DeMarco Farr said on 101.1 ESPN radio TODAY (in so many words).
Go Rams!
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now." --- Bruce Coslett, New York Jets Head Coach circa 1990s
Follow this if you want to see it
& not get a 2nd hand story. That way you can judge for yourself about the QB’s. Good stuff… http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2010/4/15/1424076/camp-gruden
appears to be, or something?
that’s pretty strong, yeah.
Here’s an actual scout on his decision making.
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
by CoachConnors on Apr 19, 2010 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Really? How? By listening to Gruden and being receptive to criticism? I must have seen a different video.
Yes, I actually wore a watermelon on my head during the Rams SuperBowl victory in 2000.
by Midasknight on Apr 20, 2010 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Put the Hammer on Bradford
Sign Bradford before the draft on the cheap if you can. If you can get a good deal on Suh then sign him (or at least let Bradford know you’re thinking about it). If the Rams don’t draft Bradford it will cost him a fortune. Detroit ain’t gonna take him at 2, KC ain’t gonna take him at 4 and the Bucs at #3 are really looking to get a game changing defender. Mucho $$$ gone Sam if you wait!
Good too
McCoy has the same tools as Brees look at their scouting reports. The potential could be great. If not, maybe he turns into Aaron Rodgers (only 6-2).
I also like this idea too, but it presents a small risk:
1) Take Suh
2) Wait for Colt to drop in 2nd round. If he’s snatched (by Minny most likely), ask Washington for Campbell. The Rams are not playoff bound this year no matter who they draft.
The risk is the Rams do not have their franchise QB this year. Wait until next year…
Or trade up to #28th spot for 2nd round and 6th round pick this year and grab Colt then.
Even if colt is gone at 33
we could focus on defense and trade for J Campbell later
that means best DE/LB available
by Jas the Mace on Apr 19, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
MIN resigned T. Jackson & have Rosenfels as well
just waiting on Favre… do you think they’d draft a QB still? I’m hoping they don’t as I’d like to see Colt fall to us.
McCoy does not have the same tools as Brees.
I wish you would keep beating that drum. In addition to lacking a lot in experience, he can’t throw the longer pass nearly as well as Brees. Further, he doesn’t see the field nearly as well and takes off running when he has open receivers. I’ll sure be glad when the draft is over so we don’t have to listen to all this.
Many arguments against that point
Kurt Warner did not throw the long ball with great accuracy, certainly not in the realm of Brees (as of now), Manning, or Favre. Yet he won a superbowl.
Brees didn’t throw the long ball great either before he was drafted, check out his negatives:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2001/profile/drew_brees.html
However, Brees was very accurate, comparative to McCoy. Both have good pocket awareness, and with McCoy’s strengths, he is an ideal fit in the WC offense.
Walters football on McCoy states deep range accuracy as a strength, but overall arm strength is really a weakness. http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2010cmccoy.php
These guys are very, very similar. See my post here: http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2010/4/19/1430684/umenyiora-available-for-the-right
Well dont be counting too much on the WC offense
I dont think Shurmur will make it thru this year with out getting fired ,i hope after just a few games lol but in any case i dont see him getting past half way this season his offense is the worst i have ever seen and if Spags and Billy want to keep him they will lose there jobs too,
I agree. It makes no sense to take a QB
who fits the West Coast offense and nothing else. Teams change coaches and offensive systems regularly. We need a QB who can play in more than one system.
Was wondering where you were headed with this Van:
“No Bradford means the Rams enter the season with A.J. Feeley, Keith Null and Mike Reilly as their quarterbacks, as their quarterbacks, which would be fine…”
then read:
“..if the team is looking to go from 1 win to zero in 2010.”
LOL AGREED
Great post… i’m all for Suh (no secret) but a great point.
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
VT!
that’s not to say though that if they didn’t get a couple playmakers on the offensive side of the ball, that they couldn’t be a little more competitive this season and win a few games with Campbell. They could feasibly get by with him for another season or two, if he stayed healthy, but it’s nothing like just starting by building the whole thing from the ground up. Look at what Detroit is putting together, finally. If they get an offensive line, they could be interesting to watch…though SOL in that division.
Turf Show Times
by Ryan Van Bibber on Apr 19, 2010 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree
Detroit’s defense is still pretty disgusting. I would put them in the same boat as us, which is a step above teams like Seattle or the Bills who, if they miss on this draft, are facing some ugly, ugly times ahead.
You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.
by 3k on Apr 19, 2010 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions
3k Detroit will top us by at least 5-6 wins, I will bet you.
It is good to see all of you zombie Bradford lovers have actually come to your senses. I am seeing a healthy shift of people saying trade down and take a QB later and I have been preaching this since day one. We still need a decent veteran starter but, I won’t feel nearly as bad as if we just blindly dump 70 million dollars into someone who has yet to take an NFL field. So we take McCoy, Pike, Lefevour or Skelton and spend 10 or 15 million, little of which is guaranteed unless they succeed. With over half of the starters in the NFL coming from the second round to undrafted, I would rather take that chance. Watch the Pike, Lefevour and Skelton propaganda on YouTube, these guys can play and are from small schools. I know what you are going to say and before you say it, I will answer…Roethlesberger, Romo, Delhomme, Warner and Flacco. All faced “inferior” competition in college not like when Bradford faced the powerhouse West Texas University and shredded them! I hope to god the rumors of trade down are true, please give us a good offer.
Sometimes I think
TFTers would talk them selves out of a million dollars if someone handed it to them. What do have to do look like a decent QB prospect.? Everybody is worried about Bradford being another Alex Smith, Alex Smith’s stats are not really that bad. Almost identical to Troy Aikmans progression. And Bradford was twice as good as Smith was in college. Whatever we do, we are going to get a decent player. Chill out
I'm not against drafting a QB if the right one is there.
He’s simply not there this year at #1 overall. It isn’t about being against Bradford it is about being against Bradford at #1 (and that I’d rather have a high floor than a high ceiling in my QB) … assuming he even has a high ceiling.
Look, we’re all tired of the Rams sucking ass but Bradford is NOT our savior. No one player is. We need to rebuild this team and we need to do it from the inside out.
If the correct QB VALUE is there when we pick, then we SHOULD draft a QB. That’s isn’t at #1 overall in this draft.
Yes, I actually wore a watermelon on my head during the Rams SuperBowl victory in 2000.
by Midasknight on Apr 20, 2010 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I just heard on 101ESPN here in St. Louis
that Herm Edwards, a fairly knowledgable NFL guy I hope you would agree, says Bradford has the same skill set as Phillip Rivers, without the bad personality. That is the QB he feels most compares with Bradford. Would you trade our #1 for Phillip Rivers?
Well, I used to live in Kansas City so I'm pretty familiar with Herm Edwards and his ...
… affinity for hyperbole.
That being said, I don’t see how the two compare at all. The thing I like most about Rivers (attitude) Bradford doesn’t have and where Bradford excels isn’t a strength of Rivers (arm strength).
Bradford seems to most closely compare to Alex Smith. Now maybe Alex Smith turns into a great QB with some continuity in SF, but right now, Bradford scares me to death.
Soft spoken, fragile, baby-faced kid is supposed to take command of the huddle with grizzled veterans and lead our team? I don’t see that happening even IF his body holds up.
Yes, I actually wore a watermelon on my head during the Rams SuperBowl victory in 2000.
"Same skillset" doesn't mean "plays as good as"
Skillset means things he is good at, things he is weak at. For example if 2 QB’s have very strong arms, mediocre accuracy and poor ability to escape the rush, you could make a case for them having the same skillset. It doesn’t address who is the better player.
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
by CoachConnors on Apr 20, 2010 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Bradford is our savior
Many respectable draft analysts think he is the best QB prospect to come out in a long while, and many who are worried think the biggest reason he won’t be good is because he can’t take a hit (if that’s the problem give me 2 weeks with him and things will be fine). I am very interested to see how he turns out if we get him.
Thats kind of what I was thinking
Not to go get him but that that is what someone will give up for him. It seems to be the price of the year this year.
I’m all for having an experienced QB on board, but i don’t think they should make that trade if the Rams do draft Bradford at #1. He’s going to need time behind a veteran who can take the reigns from day 1 and allow the QB of the future to learn without getting smashed to bits every week (Stafford). Feely is that guy. He played in the WCO (albeit as a backup) in Philly and can be a great teacher for Bradford (or whoever the QB of the future is going to be)
by IrishRamsFan on Apr 20, 2010 5:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Here's my pipe dream...
Trade to Cleveland for their 1st, 2nd, and one of their thirds. Then trade that first [#7] to Philly who wants Berry bad, for their first, their top 2nd [#35, they also have #55], and their third [#70?] More if you can get it, maybe in the way of 2 rounders next year.
But if you can parlay the #1 pick into 5 or 6 picks in the top ~70? And I’m not even counting the Rams #33 and 65 picks. Imagine 8 picks in this supposedly very deep draft. We’d be looking at a whole new ballclub. Lots of rookies, but lots of talent.
Really nothing against Bradford [this time!], but also imagine the money you’d be saving! Could you get all 7 guys for the price of one well-hyped QB?
Don’t shoot down my pipe dream! Do it, Rams!
Gotta admit I had the same dream
I threw in a second from the Bucs for the first rights to Suh as well.
I didn't want to get too greedy
Besides, I think that whole ‘draft value chart’ is pretty much discredited by now. I don’t think that it would be worth 3 additional picks to move up 6 spots. But get what you can get. Hell, if we field a team of 50% college all-pros next year, it’s a big step up.
That would be awesome to get the Bucs to throw in a draft choice as well, just for doing them a favor!
I’m also thinking now that they should use most of these 8 mythical picks on linemen, and the rest trade for another #1 pick next year. I really think the Jets had it right this year; build a core team, then throw in the rookie QB. The Rams could be that team in ’11.
Let the rebuilding happen slowly. Then, whammo!
Hmmm, the jets???
Perhaps we could follow in their footsteps and get Kurt Warner to come out of retirement for 1 celebratory season! (and get Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt back too). It might not be the prettiest of seasons… but at least we’d get to watch the greatest show on turf 1 more year (or at least for a game or two before Kurt was in the ER with a concosion).
sounds like a long shot...
but admittedly, i love it! I’ve heard Billy say, he’s just trying to get as many draft picks as possible… so, this could actually come true!
Billy is doing the same thing as all the other GMs right now.
He’s misdirecting, lying, blowing smoke, and every other descriptive phrase you can think of. You can’t believe anything any of them says right now. He might be trying to get more picks, or he might just be trying to confuse people to conceal his real aims. We won’t know anything until 2 days and 6 hours from now.
Okay.
No shooting the pipe dream. But please, tell me, who are you drafting? As I understand it, under your scenario, our first pick is number 24 in the 1st round. For sure at that point, Bradford, Clausen, Suh, Bryant, Berry and G. McCoy are certainly gone and maybe, C. McCoy is gone too. That seems to me to be the worst case scenario.
BPA 15 times
Not sure where we make space on the roster though
Multiple picks?
So Rams need TE and Schaefler goes for a 5 & 7? Maybe trade is in the works since many good TE’s will be available in rd’s 2 & 3.
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