Tale of the Tape: Why a DT should still be the Pick
by TrojanRam on Mar 31, 2010 10:12 AM CDT
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I truly wrestled with whether or not I should write this post, whether or not it even had any significance at this point, and whether or not it would be cohesive and drive the point I’m trying to make at the level it should. With Slingin’ Sam putting on a show on Monday, and the collective media orgasm that ensued, it all drenched a "who cares how much effort you put into these thoughts, we’re the media and we will get our QB" stench on any draft talk or opposing views I have. That said, I wasn’t about to let a little hyperbole from Gil Brandt (akin to the epic Russell hyperbole in 2007) erase the fact that I worked hard on this post. After examining the things I was trying to do in the first place, I realized that whether or not there’s reason left to hope for a Defensive Tackle at #1, my post was meant for a different purpose.
This fanpost was inspired by a recent post titled "St. Louis Rams Team Needs." In it I aim to address the curious thought that Defensive Tackle isn’t one of the Rams’ top 8 needs. To do so, I took the time to create a video that supports my claim rather strongly, as well as a video that illustrates the reasons why some believe drafting a Quarterback is more important. I realize we’ve beat this thing about a million times, but I simply aim to at least get us to agree that, whether you’re Bradford/Clausen or Suh/McCoy, Defensive tackle is no worse than our 3rd or 4th most pressing need (I must admit, even that seems a little too generous). Hit the jump to read/see my argument.
WARNING: If you get nauseous easily, or didn’t watch any Rams football last season (which would mean that you’re probably not ready to see this carnage), I recommend you don’t watch the videos posted. It borders on cruel, but it needs to be here.
I invite you down a rather sad road. It took me a whole afternoon to make this video(I’m slow with these doohickeys), but I have to say I’m kind of proud of it. Mixing the audio so that it fit with some of the effects was kind of challenging, but I’m glad I know how to do it now. In any case, the premise of my video was to take at least one or two plays (run and pass) from each of the Rams’ regular season games in 2009 that illustrate our front-seven’s inability to either create a pass rush or contain the run game, both of which are important responsibilities for the Defensive Tackle position, specifically controlling the run game.
NOTE: Your internet is NOT slow/loading if the video slows down or freezes. It’s really because I placed a slow-mo effect for run plays and a still image effect for pass plays. On run plays, the video slows at around the time the RB gets the ball and is about to hit what used to be the line of scrimmage. On pass plays, it freezes to show the amount of space the QBs had to step up into their throws (usually 5 yards or so).
One thing you should definitely keep an eye out for as it relates to the draft is where the DTs are both pre and post play (hint: DTs are not supposed to be on the floor unless they’ve wrapped up an RB). Also, on pass plays, look at the gaps between our DTs and the QBs.
Another thing to look for was that one several occasions the DE actually got around the corner, but because the QB had so much space to step up, it was an easily avoided rush.
Keep your ears open for phrases like "right up the middle," "walks in untouched," "big hole," "plenty of time," or "steps up in the pocket." There might be a couple of plays in there where the pass was incomplete, but I included them anyway because of how poor the interior pass rush may have been. Ok, here goes:
Why the Rams Need a Defensive Tackle (Suh or McCoy) (via MrTrojanRam)
Quite honestly, I wish I didn’t have this much material to go by. Believe me, if I had download access to all the film (since I’ve rewatched it thrice), I’d be able to make 2-3 more of these vids of the same length. Maybe for shorter plays, but for equal breakdowns and messes that were usually cleaned up by Laurinaitis/Butler.
In this league, the way it has evolved, the ONLY way you can stop a QB like Manning or Brady is to get an interior pass rush. Sometimes the guy will burn you either way, but it is quite worthless to have an outside rush with a DE if the QB can easily just step up into his throw and avoid the rush (as it happened many times in this vid). As far as the run game goes, it is almost sad to see how many times in this video our linebackers and safeties get gobbled up by an Offensive Lineman because our DTs couldn’t control their gaps (and DEs at times).
That said, there weren’t too many huge runs that weren’t directly up the middle. There were a few in the Tennessee game courtesy of Chris Johnson, as well as the Jacksonville and Minnesota games with MJD and Adrian Peterson. Those are elite backs, but for Christ’s sake, when Tim Hightower and Justin Forsett are running straight up the middle for 20-30 yard gains, something is definitely wrong. And it’s NOT your Weakside Linebacker or Defensive end. It just can’t be.
Since we’re into pointing out particular positions in regards to why a particular aspect of a football team fails (i.e. : "it’s a passing league, you need a quarterback in a passing league"), then I can boldly, confidently state that NO position on the field on Defense is more important against the run than the Defensive Tackle spot. At this point, I count one solid tackle, and his name is Clifton Ryan.
It wasn’t all bad for the D in 2009, and I composed a nice Defensive Highlights clip for the Rams’ D. In it I believe I got every sack we bagged, every interception, and every fumble forced/recovered. More on this later.
Rams' Defense Highlights 2009 (via MrTrojanRam)
Since I said I’d be fair, here is a passing lowlights clip. In it I show the mistakes made by Rams’ QBs during the season that led to turnovers, fumbles, or crucial incompletions. If I could show you all the incompletions, I would, but NFL network doesn’t have many of those highlights, so we’re stuck with turnovers. Suffice to say the best Rams’ QB only completed 56.7% of his passes.
Why the Rams need a QB (via MrTrojanRam)
Believe me, watching this clip isn’t fun for me. I acknowledge that there is a serious need for a Quarterback. I’ve thought long and hard about this one since the Bradford talks started rolling. The point of this post is more to prove that DT is arguably as big a need as QB, and I guess here comes my reasoning.
How can we possibly properly gauge how good Bulger, Boller, or Null really were when you had THIS happening?:
In Defense of the Rams' QBs (via MrTrojanRam)
There’s a myth that the Rams offensive line was fixed in 2009. Really? It's hard to debate the fact that they improved, but 44 sacks (8th worst) and 98 QB Hits (3rd worst) tell a different story. A story that, as this video shows, isn’t as simple as Richie Incognito or Alex Barron f'ing up (though that happened a lot). The more you dig into the meat and bones of football, the more you realize how interrelated the different positions on offense must be to be effective, especially the passing game. As the video shows, a big part of the blame this year goes to our young but inexperienced receiving corps. There were less breakdowns in pass protection this year by the O-Line, but even when they gave the Rams’ QBs time, often times no one in Horns was open.
Donnie Avery has speed for days but isn’t physical enough at the line of scrimmage to gain separation (but he might next season with his weight gain), which is critical in a short passing game that uses a lot of slant patterns. Keenan Burton is a decent possession receiver, but lacks the speed to get open consistently. Danny Amendola was a pleasant surprise, but slot receivers rarely dominate games like Wes Welker does. The mid-season pickup of Brandon Gibson seemed great, but he is still an unknown and faded a little as the season went on. Lastly, tragically, Laurent Robinson never got the chance to get rolling.
Such was the fate of our WRs. Injuries, low draft picks, lack of openness. You can see in the video that a few times Rams’ QBs would have adequate time, but they had to pull the ball down because a guy was covered. It’s especially noticeable on quick drops. There just wasn’t a consistent big body for those slants. Nothing ever really opened up throughout the year for any of us to say all three of these QBs are total garbage and we need the new guy here now. Sure, they messed up a lot. I’m not sitting here trying to make you think that the QBs are absolved from this. They surely played a huge part, but I wonder if the other elements of the passing game receive their due share of blame or if we just look at the QB because he’s the one laying on the floor or throwing the INT.
Does any of this mean we don’t need a QB? Nope. But to me it says that the evaluations of the QBs that we have on the team deserve as much of a pass as units like the Linebacking corps or Defensive Backfield seem to be receiving.
When a team is this bad, quite honestly, EVERYTHING is wrong. I’m just sick of people placing it on one position just to justify the argument they have for a particular player in this draft.
I am by no means saying that drafting Suh/McCoy would automatically erase our 4.4 yards per carry (10th worst) debacle, or our 24 rushing TD (worst in the NFL) showing. Much the same way that drafting Bradford won’t likely catapult our 6th worst passer rating and worst point scored per game rating to the top of the charts.
All I’m really trying to say is if Justin Forsett gained 130 yards on your team, mostly straight up the middle, and some d-bag Seattle Seachickens announcer had the audacity to scream with enthusiasm IN THE Edward Jones Dome "THE FANS HERE LOVE IT!" after another huge run by said Nobody RB, then you need a goddamn Defensive Tackle. Pretty bad. To me it’s #2 right behind QB, and don’t think for a second that adding 33 year old Fred Robbins and getting Adam Carriker’s out of position ass back is going to change that.
I might be one of the last people that think we should take a DT #1 Overall, but I take solace in knowing that some people, real football people, agree with what the hell I’m saying.
One Torry Holt(which by the way doesn’t think any QB should be taken in the top ten(and that Clausen should be ahead of Bradford), and scoffs at the notion that St. Louis fans can be weird enough to fall under the "the fanbase needs a jolt" cliché).
One D’Marco Farr. (note, Farr believes Bradford WILL be the pick, but he feels Suh/McCoy should be the choice).
Not many on the list, but two of these guys have played in our offense in the last two years, and one of them was a Pro-Bowl DT for us. I like how that stacks up against anything Brandt says.
I realize this will fall on deaf ears or loud praise. Let’s face it, the lines have been drawn. I feel like most of the Suh/McCoy supporters have just been overwhelmed by this amount of hype the other way, but if you believed it before Sam threw the football on Monday, after careful thought and reflection, don’t forget the reasons you believed it in the first place. The guy looked good. We expected him to. He wouldn’t throw it unless he felt it was good to go.
But that doesn’t change the stuff we saw throughout the season that is magnified in the video I made. This team is a long way from being competitive again, no matter which route the Rams’ decide to go. Van’s article showed a bunch of needs that I agree with completely. The only issue I had is that, to me, he depreciated the need for a Defensive Tackle excessively to strengthen the point of drafting a QB as the #1 need. He may truly believe those 7 other positions (DE, WLB, TE, Backup RB, CB, RT, WR) are really more important, but I just can’t look at the tape and fathom why.
I just feel that, on the defensive highlight film, the missing piece is that key cog in the middle. We've got a Middle Linebacker making plays. A safety who's services we're gambling with. A young DE that seems to be coming into his own. A veteran DE we just got back that looks like he still has some juice, and one starting caliber, solid CB. I just feel like that cog can mean so much more to the defense faster than Bradford, who'll need at least 1 more WR, TE, Lineman, and RB to truly show his worth.
Anyways, thanks for reading if you have this far. I realize all of this is probably moot and Devaney has probably already written SB14’s name on a card for the commish to read on April 22nd. I really can’t lie to you and say that I wouldn’t be disappointed, but know that I fully intend to eat my words when SB’s initials stand for Superbowl as well as Sam Bradford. I’ll GLADLY eat every last one of them and I’ll likely cheer louder for the guy than anyone in the fanbase.
I just think I’d rather cheer for Suh as of now. That’s all. Go Rams! Pick the best guy Billy D!
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Great read
and watch! Well, a quarter of a great watch, I guess…..
Watching the D highlights and knowing when those plays game, and seeing how close the score was at those points makes me feel that our D is progressing and playing hard. And for most of the lowlights, when the score was close, I’d expect the O to get the ball back and do something with it to keep it there. Our defense was on the field most of 2009.
Several of the O-Line breakdowns came when the scores were already lopsided, which potentially could happen again if our receivers (read Avery) learn to run routes and make moves, which would make Bradford’s job harder.
I feel like this pick comes down to identity. Are we back in the mix to be a balanced team, or do we want to get back to the Fearsome Foursome days. I don’t think there’s a right answer, but I think we’ll find out a lot more about our FO makeup after this draft.
THIS year's the year. I hope....
Great Post
First off, love the post, however painful it was to watch us get trounced. But still great collection of game film.
Second, Suh would undoubtedly be an amazing addition to our team. His influence on the pass rush would be sensational, the run game would improve greatly, blitzes would work more effectively. He has the talent to become a mainstay in our team for at least 7 or 8 pro bowls.
Third, I agree that a large defect in our defense is the inability of our DT’s to MAKE plays. Our defense got gashed in the running game and a disruptive force in the middle would be very helpful.
But: I think our DT’s are not horrible. Play calling (goes for QB and DT’s) put them out of position often, fatigue impacts their ability to MAKE plays, and I saw quite a bit of mediocrity in a lot of the DT film (suggested as a positive). I feel as though the DT’s are at a point where often they do what the average DT would do, but are too rarely going above (greatly diminishing their position as a need for me).
QB should also get a break (Bulger at times was serviceable, Boller was pretty bad, and though Null looked horrible there were still hints of poise and capability) but the play of the QB is completely different than other positions. You have choice. Defensive/offensive guys(outside of QB) know what to do when the play is called, run a slant, collapse the 4 hole, pull and block the WLB, play shallow zone, etc. QB’s have the option to make a bad or good decision and for that I place great importance on him over anyone else. Without a good QB your team will have a very low chance of success.
As far as needs go, I think the consensus is QB is #1, probably followed by some combo of DE, WLB, TE, Backup RB, and DT. I definitely see where your coming from but with 2 30+ guys at DE I’d put that at #2, TE and Backup RB probably go to the back just because of position, but we have zero at WLB so I’d put that at #3. DT could go at #4, but it’s tough because I think they could easily benefit from having more guys in the rotation.
With this being said, these are just the things we probably disagree on and could lead to a difference of opinion in who we chould grab at #1: I think Bradford is about equal with Suh as far as talent for their position goes. I don’t think any of next years QBs are as good as Sam Bradford. I think bad DT’s are easily handled given the right players around them, and supplemented with good play calling, as oppose to the inability for bad QB’s to be hidden. I think a good draft can make us a .500 team (something I want now, I will always be a fan, but my well being is at stake) but it must include a new STARTING QB. I think Bradford has the tools to start on Day 1.
Yup, phenomenal work
And yes, I’m still in the same mindset as D’Marco: it will be Bradford, but I wish it was Suh.
You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.
Well to be fair...
D’Marco is a defensive guy (and a former DT) so it is no shock to hear a defensive guy say he prefers defensive picks. As far as SJax is concerned, do you really expect him to dismiss his current QB (who is still on the active roster) of six years? Torry may still have a strong relationship with his former QB as well.
I guess my point is that is not surprising to hear that line of thinking from those sources.
Free Brandon Wood!
Our top 3 needs are ...
DT, QB, TE
In that order.
Like a great QB for the offense, a great DT makes the rest of the defense better. DE, WLB, DB’s … they all look better when that DT is blowing up the line of scrimmage. He may not make many tackles, but he messes up the offense.
A DT that needs to be accounted for is a DT that is worth drafting high and paying for.
Yes, I actually wore a watermelon on my head during the Rams SuperBowl victory in 2000.
strongly disagreee
DT does not make the defense better, it could make the defense better but rarely does it
DT and QB do not compare in terms of impact
"You’ve got to play every game like it’s your last because it’s definitely survive-and-advance or don’t survive and school," Tiller said.
by stlcardsfan4 on Mar 31, 2010 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm glad you aren't my team's GM then
Yes, I actually wore a watermelon on my head during the Rams SuperBowl victory in 2000.
ok but u can't deny they don't have the same impact
the DT point is refutable, but u can’t honestly laugh at me when i say QB makes more impact
"You’ve got to play every game like it’s your last because it’s definitely survive-and-advance or don’t survive and school," Tiller said.
by stlcardsfan4 on Mar 31, 2010 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
The QB is the single most important position on the field...
…true.
But there isn’t a QB alive (or dead) that could have added more than 2 or 3 wins to the 2009 Rams. The TEAM needs a LOT more than a questionable quarterback.
Watch that video again and tell me how many sacks you would see on that film if one of the DT’s could push that pocket? The DE’s actually look a lot better than their stats indicate. A DT that pushes the guard into the backfield on a running play destroys the play even if the linebacker or DE get the tackle stat.
I’m not going to argue who has more impact. But a dominating DT has a HUGE impact on the game.
An average DT, not so much, but a dominating one? …. HUGE!!
Yes, I actually wore a watermelon on my head during the Rams SuperBowl victory in 2000.
i defintely disagree with no QB could've added wins
we had zero offense and a good QB would have changed some of those close games
and i don’t think drafting suh or mccoy wouldn’t immediately solve our run defense
it would immensely help, but they wouldn’t add victories, not as much as QB would add victories
"You’ve got to play every game like it’s your last because it’s definitely survive-and-advance or don’t survive and school," Tiller said.
by stlcardsfan4 on Mar 31, 2010 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions
A dominating DT
would be great. But if we don’t get a QB, our points per game will do down even further from our last place position last year, and might set an all-time NFL record for the fewest points scored. I don’t care how good your defense is, you can’t overcome that.
Wrong ...
… an improved defense gives your offense more opportunities … and an improved defense stays fresher by forcing three and outs and turnovers more often.
Yes, I actually wore a watermelon on my head during the Rams SuperBowl victory in 2000.
That would hold water, IF
we hadn’t seen video where our O can’t punch it in. The facts are in the videos of you watched. How many more opportunities’ are we to give the O without giving them some help?! If our O can’t do anything and we are forced into 3 n’outs too, then what?
Last seaon we lost to the Redskins by 2, the Jags by 3, the Cards & Bears by 8, & the Texans by 3. Oh, almost forgot we lost to the Saints by 5 too. The rest of the games were really lopsided. SO, w/more offense could we have won those games? IMO the D kept us close enough, but the O didn’t do their part; this excludes SJ who played his heart out! The Rams biggest needs are the passing O and the rushing D. We need to pass better and we need to stop the run. We are in quite a quandary…
A good defense gives your offense a shorter field to work with, more often
which theoretically translates into more opportunities to score points. even if it’s just FG’s.
That’s one way the low scoring Ravens won all the way to the Superbowl with Trent Dilfer. Their D kept the field short, they denied the other team TD’s, and they kicked a couple of field goals to win with baseball like scores.
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
by CoachConnors on Apr 1, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you really think adding Suh
will give us a defense like that of the Ravens when they won? We won’t even be close to that. Suh might raise the Rams up to almost the middle of the league in defense if everything goes perfectly, but that’s about it. With an offense that is pathetic, the Rams still aren’t going to win many games and they aren’t going to score many points.
Can't we all just agree
that the Rams are far far more than just one or two players away from being competitive?
They need both a QB and a DT.
I’ve said it before and I’m sure I will have to say it again, it took years to mess the team up as bad as it is, its gonna take years to fix it.
by Concrete Jungle on Apr 2, 2010 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say that.
my point the defense helps the offense. The Ravens were an example of that.
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
I agree
you’re exactly right Coach – look what happened to the Rams last season. The D couldn’t get off the field. The O was consistantly playing from behind or starting with bad field position. Meanwhile the opponents D is sitting on the sideline fresh to force a 3-and-out when they come on and give their O back good field position to do the same thing all over again.
The Ravens with Dilfer, Bears with Grossman, Vikings with Jackson. These teams all played solid D and made the playoffs with limited talent at QB.
Now I’m not saying that if we draft Suh and start Feely, Null or Reilly that we’re going to the post-season or anything like it. Obviously the Rams need a starting QB whether it’s via the draft or trade but Coach is right in what he says. An improved D will help the O improve through better field position, more TOP and more opportunities to score (they might even weigh in with a few scores themselves)
Mike Tomlin and Norv Turner would disagree with ya there.
“You get a great one, they change the way you have to coach offensively against a team” Turner said.
“In some schemes, they’re the engine that drives the car” said Tomlin.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
ok but my problem with that is... they have phillip rivers and big ben
so yeh they aren’t in the same position, they actually have a franchise QB
"You’ve got to play every game like it’s your last because it’s definitely survive-and-advance or don’t survive and school," Tiller said.
by stlcardsfan4 on Mar 31, 2010 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions
we have some
prospects at dt and if they can stay healthy, we have depth. not excusing that position because we could still use a really good defensive tackle but scott and especially ryan are decent prospects and now we have that very experienced veteran in fred robbins. i’d say dt is behind wlb, qb and te. we could really benefit from signing na’il diggs and i would honestly love it if we signed alex brown to play opposite of chris long. another proven veteran on that line is just what we need. if we could sign brown and diggs and add some depth everywhere lol, we would actually be solid on defense. i think we should bring in a veteran to help develop vobora but i’m fine with him if we can’t. the tackles would play better if our whole line steps up and signing brown will help so much.
bravo
I still lean toward Bradford, but this is convincing stuff right here.
Turf Show Times
by Ryan Van Bibber on Mar 31, 2010 1:58 PM CDT reply actions
Thanks man.
And like a mentioned, I completely agree with you at the top. If Suh/McCoy didn’t exist, I’d be with you ordering my Bradford jersey already. I just felt like, it’s close enough between QB/DT at the top for me to want what I feel is the BPA just a little more than the QB. There’s no question I’ve got a fondness for Marc that’s probably in play for now, but even I can’t lie and pretend like we don’t need the QB sooner rather than later. So I agree that QB is the top need, I just feel like it makes sense to wait this year.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
Agree with Van
I still lean QB, but I won’t be jumping off a cliff if they draft Suh. Great read and appreciate the effort put into the post
I like the way you positioned your argument though – it seems like many that are pro Suh, just dismiss the fact that QB is the #1 need or try to find anything to minimize Bradford’s potential. It is clear to any Rams fan that watches their games that a DT is a need and your vids just highlight that fact (you can also just tally up how many sacks interior lineman tallied last year as well. Answer: 3).
I guess I just subscribe to the get a franchise QB 1st theory and build around. They don’t need to start from day 1 though. Not to diminish the DT need, but I also feel it is much easier to get solid rotation DTs in a regular free agency year then it is to get a franchise QB.
That said – the FO needs to KNOW that they are getting a franchise QB in Bradford (or Clausen) – you don’t draft a QB just for the sake of drafting a QB, especially at #1. But if they feels he’s the guy – gotta go QB over DT everyday IMO.
Free Brandon Wood!
I agree there ...
… if they feel Clausen or Bradford are THE guy, then you take him. If they aren’t sure, you trade down or pick the DT.
My biggest problem with picking Bradford #1 isn’t the need for DT as much as a lack of confidence in Bradford.
I also still think Clausen will be a better pro than Bradford.
Yes, I actually wore a watermelon on my head during the Rams SuperBowl victory in 2000.
bradford
has work ethic that is second to none in this draft. you have shoulder surgery, most people wouldn’t hit the gym too hard after that but bradford adds 13 pounds of muscle in such a short period of time. not only that but he has improved his play in every possibly in that short period of time too. he’s improving drastically in such a fast pace, i have all the faith in the world that he may end up being a future hall of famer. the guy played a game and a half and couldn’t do anything with the injury yet his arm strength is already 2 times better than it was in college, his mechanics and footwork have improved so much and as scary as it sounds, his accuracy has probably gotten better too. this guy is seriously the real deal, better than matt ryan or matt stafford. i mean shit, how often do you see a quarterback throw 86 touchdown passes as a freshman and sophomore. he was only 48 td passes from graham harrell’s career passing td record as a sophomore, even if it’s the spread offense, you have to be impressed. the guy has natural talent and so does jimmy clausen. people think this qb class is weak but honestly, clausen and bradford are probably the best pro prospects i’ve seen in years.
You're not the only Suh supporter left out here.
This team has only won 6 games in the last 3 seasons, the trenches must suck and they do. Watching a few plays or believing that the lines are improved won’t mask the fact that our line play is terrible. Peyton Manning might have squeaked out one or two more wins last year with this team but no turn around until we address our trenches. It’s been said many times but if you can’t stop the run you won’t win. DT is a huge need on this team. And if we draft Bradford we’ll probably draft a WR or TE with the 2nd pick and continue to not address the lines.
I’m still puzzled by the Feeley acquisition. If we draft Bradford, Bulger will be let go and Feeley becomes the starter. Maybe just a little too optomistic to believe Bradford, coming from a spread offense behind one of the best O-lines in college, will be ready to start Day 1. So Feeley is the starter for a year or two until Bradford is ready? Couldn’t we have done better than Feeley if this was the path the FO had planned?
The Redskins may want Bradford but they may also call our bluff and see if we can afford him. Without a new owner in place we have been on the cheap lately. If no contract with Bradford or trade then we must take Suh. Devaney and Spags are walking a tight rope on this one.
Thanks.
So many scenarios, I just wanted to make sure we saw how the situation was/is at both QB and DT.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
Feely was chosen because...
…he played in this system in Philly and will be a key part of any rookie QB learning it. If that means he has to start next season while the future face of the franchise learns the system then I’m ok with that.
Personally I think they will either draft Bradford or trade back. There’s a couple of good options at DT lower down that should be available in the 2nd round and the chance to acquire extra picks is attractive when a team has so many holes to fill
How many times can we watch ...
our DT’s hit the o-line and stop cold … or worse, move backwards. In the NFL, you MUST stop the run. That must be a priority.
Yes, I actually wore a watermelon on my head during the Rams SuperBowl victory in 2000.
Hell of a good post.
The film tells all. Thanks for making those videos.
My ROFLcopter goes soi soi soi soi soi soi soi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pkAFR-7c-c
yup
Watching those QB low-lights, I couldn’t help but notice how the O-line was actually giving good protection but our QBs didn’t hang in the pocket and rolled out to where there wasn’t any protection. We need someone who’s gonna stick in the pocket
That's true on several occasions..
..and you can see Marc, Kyle, and Keith looking and looking and looking for no one open.
I wish we had that actual gametape, the one coaches have with the entire field view to see how many times exactly these receivers couldn’t gain separation. I think it could shed better light on exactly who is deserving of blame, but for now I’ll put it on all three, the line, the QB, and the wide outs.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
I'm sorry...
…I spent a couple of afternoons on this, watching and rewatching the clips. Believe me, it was probably worse for me.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
I see you neglected to mention INJURY's
as a supporting reason. When we have a 6th, 7th or undrafted FA starting games due to injuries it’s gonna make your team suck. Tho I am not suggesting it is the reason why, it does play a role. Makes you wonder what we could do if our starters stayed healthy. Like our O-line and D-line. IMO, that shows the value of a back-up [bottom of the draft players starting rarely gets the job done].
but I take solace in knowing that some people, real football people, agree with what the hell I’m saying.
I don’t like how you belittle ppl that don’t agree w/you, as it brings your argument down a notch; like your thought is any better than anyone’s on here. lol.. I don’t disagree about G. McCoy or Suh being our first pick; both those guys have tremendous upside and would change our franchise. I just don’t know if one of them would be better than a QB or OT for us. We could us all 3.
In all a good post. I don’t know who we’re gonna pick and I have faith in our FO doing what is best for this team, which isn’t something we’ve had in a while. Good argument and good post, tho the vid’s sucked! <—- I hate seeing how bad we were last year!
That didn't come out the way I wanted to.
And it isn’t to say the people writing the Bradford-storm aren’t intelligent football people, but I just feel like the other voices aren’t listened too even though they have a lot of credentials behind them as well.
As for the injuries, they happen man. If anything, it can support my claim in a way. How can we evaluate any situation, particularly QB, when there were so many injuries to the receiving corps and Offensive Line? There’s was a middle stretch during the season where the line seemed to start getting its groove, but then J. Smith got injured again.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
honestly,
the suh supporters voices have been heard from december-february, you can’t deny that. i’m not AGAINST drafting suh, but i don’t see how you’re fine with passing on ANOTHER franchise qb especially when there are 2 that are better than the last, like, 10 of them. the lions had more holes to fill than we did after going 0-16, they drafted stafford and had their best draft of the decade last year and now they are answering key questions this offseason. there is no doubt in my mind that they are improving and improving in an extremely fast rate. it starts with the franchise qb and you rebuild around it and they would be stupid not to draft okung, even if suh is on the table. look at what the colts did with peyton, the best example of success in rebuilding around your franchise qb. or the chargers with rivers, the giants with eli, the steelers drafting weapons around ben worked out well. we really can’t keep passing on franchise quarterbacks especially when the players we draft aren’t making impacts. i think smith and long will be great but we have yet to get much out of them. sure, there are guys like russell or quinn but clausen and bradford are improving unlike quinn, who hit his peak in college and you know damn well they’re both committed to football unlike russell. i’m not saying they WON’T be busts cause you can never tell but they sure have no signs of busting.
10th worst but also 20th best
Dpends on how you frame it. The “10th worst” statement is true, but it’s also true that they were 20th best.
Of the 32 teams in the league, those right in the middle (four teams tied at 16th) allowed 4.3 yards. The .1 yards is the smallest increment they measure, so by that, 4.4 really wasn’t so horrendous. They missed being exactly in the middle of the league by the smallest amount possible.
I really appreciate the great work you did with this post. (Thanks!)
I agree that they need a DT badly.
My priorities would be QB, then DT/TE/OLB
Again, love the post, you do good work.
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
i say de
over dt. with the signing of dockery, we have a good secondary with bartell, dockery, butler and otogwe. if we could just get to the quarterback more then the secondary will make some plays, i guarantee that.
Our DE's would get more sacks ...
… if the DT’s could collapse the pocket a little better. They give the opposing QB’s too much room to step up and avoid the rushing DE.
Yes, I actually wore a watermelon on my head during the Rams SuperBowl victory in 2000.
Any of the D linemen would help out the LB's in the run and CB's in the pass
Sometimes opposing QB’s had all day to get a third and long. Drove me nuts. I’d probably go DE too.
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
Awesome Post and Logic
Love the post and game film. The logic fits. I just wish we could make a move where we still end up with Suh while trading the #1 pick for additional draft choices. This years draft is supposedly “deep” and with so many needs to be meet we need to get as many picks as possible while still addressing our primary needs.
Again, thanks for taking the time to put the video’s together.
Thanks, and believe me, I wish that were possible too.
And it might be. So many scenarios.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
WOW!
Great post. Lotsa work there. I’m still in the Suh camp and DE or LB #2. Defense guy here……….If they cant score they cant beat you. Go offense the rest of the draft. build the O line, TE, WR, RB. Just do something to keep them from scoring.
by johnniewarthawg on Mar 31, 2010 4:35 PM CDT reply actions
I'm a defense guy too...
…even if I grew on the GSOT.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
Yea
I grew up with the Fearsome Foursome. Yea I’m an old fart. But if we held last years teams to 3 points or less, what would our record have been?10-6 maybe. I dont remember how many games we were shut out in, but how many games would have won with 9 points?
I’ve tried very hard to forget as much of last year as I could
by johnniewarthawg on Apr 1, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
i'm jealous
i wish i were alive to watch the fearsome foursome. but honestly, if we were putting up more than 10-11 ppg then we could have won like 6 games haha.
shiiit
i was 8 years old when kurt warner made his first start with us, that is the best memory of the rams i have and i would love to see it come back.
Great Post
Sterling work sir and a point well made.
As an aside, boy do I hope we get Togs signed up to a long term deal. Anyone else notice how often his name kept popping up in the defensive highlights video? The man is a turnover machine.
Exactly my thoughts as I made the vid.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
Is Devaney screwing this up?
Bulger might have had some trade value a few weeks ago. Now teams will just wait for the Rams to release him, assuming we take Bradford.
And Feeley to start and mentor Bradford?
I dont think Bulger carried any trade value at his salary
Free Brandon Wood!
I agree. Bulger had no trade value before and none now.
No team is going to pay him $8.5 million to play for them this year. There probably are a couple of teams who are thinking about taking a chance on him, but not about getting him by trade. Marc is just too big a risk for anyone to pay him that kind of money for 2010.
Good post
This is my first post here, so be gentle. I have read TST for a while, but never posted. Anyways, here goes.
I believe that the Rams have two options in the draft. And neither is a QB. I just don’t think our offense is ready for a rookie QB yet. We don’t have the line, we don’t have the receivers, we don’t have the scheme. Hopefully, by next year, we will at least be well on our way to being able to support a rookie in the most important offensive position.
What I think we should do. Either:
1. Keep the #1 pick. Draft Suh or McCoy (I don’t really care which one, because I trust that the management and coaches will be able to pick which one they believe will best fit our team/system). With our other picks, get at least two offensive skill position players with picks in rounds 2-4. End with OL and LBs/DBs.
2. Trade the #1 pick to (possibly) Redskins for #4 pick and other stuff (hopefully picks, maybe Campbell, either/or (again, management needs to maximize return)). Draft Okung at #4. Draft WR with 2nd rounder and another skill guy with 3 or 4. With other picks, go for a big body DT, other D guys, and maybe OL depth.
Personally, I hope for scenario 2. This gives us a very strong base for a good offense this year, and a better offense with someone like Locker at QB next year. I also want this to happen because I think we are just not good enough, right now, on either side of the ball, to try to fix both at once. Along those lines, I think it is easier to pick up solid D-men off FAs than skill position offense.
IT'S A TARP!!!
To your 2nd scenario...
I’ve seen this from a couple other posters as well and I understand the trade down philosophy, but…..Okung?!? Drafting a LT in the top 4 following a year when you draft a LT at #2?? With as many team needs as there are, it makes no sense to me….at all.
Free Brandon Wood!
i agree, but Okung is a RT purely
"You’ve got to play every game like it’s your last because it’s definitely survive-and-advance or don’t survive and school," Tiller said.
by stlcardsfan4 on Apr 1, 2010 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
You sure?
I thought he was at LT after his freshman season (but I am no OK St expert so I could be wrong). That and I can’t imagine a RT would be mocking so high….
Free Brandon Wood!
Either way
We need a solid o-line if we are gonna start a rookie QB, and barron for sure does not allow us to do that. RT or LT, i still think we should get him. smith played well at RT last year, so why not keep him there? or make the rookie switch to RT. either way is better than barron.
and yes, we do have a lot of team needs, but like i said in my first post, there are to many to fill in one draft, so i think we should try to address one side of the ball first. this scenario gives us a (hopefully) solid o-line with an already great RB, hopefully decent WRs, and a hole for a QB next year.
IT'S A TARP!!!
How many sacks did Barron give up last year?
I don’t think it was all that many. People are confusing his penalties with his pass protection and run blocking. Everything I see says he was a pretty decent tackle in every way but his penalties. Penalties are a problem, of course, but they aren’t going to get the QB killed.
Nope - still doesn't make sense to me.....
You don’t tie up that much money on a RT, or use back to bac #1’s on the same position. Remember last year, the argument against taking Smith at #2 was if you were going to keep him at RT. RT aren’t AS important as LT and therefore don’t get the same coin, or get picked that highly over alternative team needs on draft day. Beside, the RFA tender on Barron keeps the need on the back burner till next year and allows the team to address other areas in a deep draft this year.
Free Brandon Wood!
okung
is the best LEFT tackle in this draft. plus, the lions will probably get him at 2. they would be stupid not to after letting stafford get hurt.
and as for your theory that we're not ready for a rookie qb
no one at the top of the draft is yet you take them anyway. who knows how next years draft will be with quarterbacks. i’m a pac 10 guy, people think that locker is the best qb this year and next. wtf have you been watching? the pac 10 was filled with freshman and sophomore qb’s and he was in the bottom half in qb rating… even after matt barkley hit the wall hard, he still had a better passing season than locker did. all locker is right now is an athlete with franchise quarterback potential. washington fans will tell you that he has young talent around nim. granted they say young, but the no talent around him was no excuse last year. locker has POTENTIAL but until he actually shows it, he’s not worth a top 16 pick… ryan mallett? sure, he’s a great pro prospect but bradford and clausen are easily 2-3 times better as of now, mallett might actually get worse or he might get better but i doubt he will outdo bradford or clausen. you can’t keep taking chances, this is the best opportunity at drafting a great franchise quarterback. the colts weren’t worried about their bad team when they got peyton, they just made sure that he would be safe in the future and we all know how that turned out. we can always do what the bengals did with palmer. they benched palmer in his rookie year and by palmers 3rd year, 2nd year starting, he was easily a top 3 quarterback in the league and if he didn’t have that horrible knee injury or his elbow injury that benched him 2 years ago, he would still be a top 3 quarterback in the league. there is no legitimate argument against drafting a quarterback as promising as bradford and clausen, people with that potential and HEART and love for the game almost always turn out good. that’s why i think tebow will turn out good too, too much work ethic and love for the game. you know he’s going to kill himself until he succeeds in the nfl.
Great post!
Great demonstration of logic vs. hype! I believe that when you have a horrible roster with very few bright spots, you go for the best available player (as long as it isn’t running back or middle LB). You have brilliantly illustrated that we are far from being ready to put a rookie QB at the helm. He will have less than 3 seconds before he takes a pounding, the worst receiving corps in the league and will be expected to start right away. Sounds very inviting especially if you have a newly repaired shoulder.
Last year when asked if he truly wanted to play for the Lions, Stafford said “I would love to throw to Calvin, he is one of the finest WR’s in the league”. Can’t wait until Bradford is asked that question….Mr. Bradford, do you really want to play for the Rams? “Not no but F-No” “Donnie Avery?” Haha! Once again I will illustrate that we need a veteran QB first and then we can take on a rookie QB. If we throw a rookie out there we will not only be under 3 wins but, I will guarantee he wont start more than 8 games before he is injured or pulled (maybe on a stretcher).
To my knowledge not one QB has been thrown into a situation like this and had a decent career. Maybe Archie Manning but even that is debatable. Now look at the successful QB’s and how they were introduced into the league. Romo, Schaub, Warner, Rodgers, Rivers, Brees, Palmer and Favre all sat out at least their first season under a veteran to learn the NFL game and their new teams offense. Kind of looks like the who’s who of NFL passers. The injury comment above doesn’t hold water either. Our O-Line has always been injury prone and most teams in the league can count on at least 2-3 significant injuries to the O-Line. We are a very bad team, it’s plain and simple. Let’s prove we can win more than one game before we downgrade from a Pro Bowl to a rookie. Go Rams!
Great read TR
glad you took the time to put this together and post it.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying here and I think that QB is our greatest need and if Sammy B is picked would welcome him in with open arms. But I also think that it would be difficult for him or any other QB to come in here and make this team shine. So why not take the Best DT first best OLB second and OL third. Solidify the D and and OL.
I think that the FO has done well with the cards that they’ve been delt and truely believe that they’ll get Our Rams turned around.
Thanks again for the read and watch.
"SJAX" - The extra strength cleaner that fights off that Stubborn, Stingy Defense
Maybe I'm alone in this
but… what I would like to see is drafting Suh, I think nearly everyone agrees he is the best player available in this year’s draft reguardless of position. In round two though, which is pretty close to being a first round pick, we take Colt McCoy. I don’t know why I like him so much, but I do. He is a winner. He is accurate. To me, the difference between him and Bradford is that Bradford is taller. Colt seems tougher to me though, both physically and mentally. He is more athletic and can run after plays break down, which will happen a lot. He also has great character and work ethic. Am I alone in this? I really would be very happy to see McCoy in a Rams jersey. And we could still have our dominating DT/best player in the draft, SUH.
Remember this is a great Defensive draft
that is a great post, I worry with all the Bradford hype we will draft the wrong side of the football, this is a great defensive draft and we are in the best position in the Leadue to get some starter, if we go QB with pick at #1, then TE, then WR, we will be blowing this draft, this is one of the best defensive drafts in years
Just curious.
Why does everyone assume picking Bradford also means picking a TE and WR with the next two picks? We can probably get a good pass receiving tight end in the 4th round, and there isn’t much point in adding another #2 or #3 WR – we need a #1 and we aren’t going to get him in this draft.
to me, its like this
not that they have to take a TE next, but doing so would complete the offensive picture. and allow then to concentrate on D in a draft that is deep at D.
TE is a serious need, in my opinion, one that can’t be filled in round 4 of this draft.
If that’s true (and I’m working on the assumption it is) then:
- they have a 2nd round investment in a WR that is maturing
- they have high investments in C and LT (the two most important spots on the O-line)
- they have a future HOF RB
so what would complete the picture? a QB and a TE. So if they fill those needs, then it’s all about the D in a draft that is deep in D. If it’s a deep draft in D, then you can get good D players later. I don’t think that;s the case with TE’s or QB’s this year, but those are the positions they nee the most on offense.
Not that a QB and TE all of a sudden makes the offense high octane, but I see them as pieces needed to be competitive. Certainly a passing/receiving threat is required ASAP because Jackson can’t carry the team on his back, literally, for another year.
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
by CoachConnors on Apr 1, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
And I doubt they will actually take a TE in round 2
I only wish they would have Gresham fall to them and they would take him, but I don’t realistically think it will work out that way.
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
by CoachConnors on Apr 1, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
So you don't think
Dixon or Dickerson would make good TEs for the Rams? That’s who I think they could get in the fourth round, and they look pretty good as pass catchers to me.
Dickson form Oregon?
[Sorry, I know you’re not asking me, but I hope you don’t mind I’m putting my .02 to your question.]
Yes on him, but I’d take him in the 3rd. He has the tools necessary to cause all kinds of mismatch problems: 6’5" 250 lbs, and runs/catches like a WR. He’s not much of a blocker, but that’s OK IMO; it’s his receiving threat we want.
Dickerson wouldn’t be good IMO; he’s fast now, but also undersized at 225 lbs & only 6’1". His speeds gonna suffer when he adds weight.
a lot of mock drafts
have us taking gronkowski for te this year. his back injuries worry me. your name is trojanram. seeing as we’re both apart of the trojan family, don’t you agree that anthony mccoy is EXACTLY the receiving tight end threat we need? mock drafts have him going in the middle of the fourth when he easily has 2nd round talent, he would be such a steal in the 4th. ed dickson can catch but mccoy is more of a threat. in mccoy’s 10 games, he had 457 yards but was averaging 20.8 yards per reception. if usc had the same amount of wide receiver talent (or lack thereof) as oregon then mccoy would have had like 700 receiving yards. 20.8 is eye opening though. could be like stafford-pettigrew
well, just my opinion but
For my tastes, if I were calling the shots, the draft is only about 3 or 4 players deep at TE, not 3 rounds. I realize that might mean I put more importance on it then the Rams FO does, but that’s ok. We’ll see how it goes.
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
Hey TrojanRam
I still want Suh too. I like Bradford but i want Suh. Simply put, Suhs talent cannot be duplicated IMHO. Bradfords can What Bradford brings to the QB position, we can’t be sure of. I think I’d rather go for McCoy, LeFevour or Tebow in a later round.
I believe the first round, (2 rounds this year) are best used for the guys who have to win the physical battles up front. I’m fine with drafting linemen first every year, until we get the lines built up. They get paid more because they deserve more.
This is the most well put together post I’ve had the pleasure to read. It puts into words and pictures why i feel the way i feel about our needs. I’ll always be defense oriented so i think I may be biased but not as biased as i thought I was before reading this.
did u really say tebow?
im sorry but u lost a little ground for me by saying that
"You’ve got to play every game like it’s your last because it’s definitely survive-and-advance or don’t survive and school," Tiller said.
???
i meant in the sense that he’s not going to be a good NFL QB
don’t get the manliness joke…
"You’ve got to play every game like it’s your last because it’s definitely survive-and-advance or don’t survive and school," Tiller said.
by stlcardsfan4 on Apr 2, 2010 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions
You know being able to admit I'm a closet Tebow fan and all
I’m not endorsing him as our project QB, but I wouldn’t mind seeing him in a Rams uni, if he were available in say the 4th round. And I wouldn’t be real comfortable about betting against him if I were you. Just because his mechanics need improved doesn’t mean he’s definitely gonna bomb. I bet you a dollar he has a long and prosperous NFL career.
two thing
1) a dolllar and nothing more u’d be willing to bet :)
2) im very comfortable saying he won’t have a successful career
and btw he’s said to be up to the second round now and 4th round seems really unrealistic at this point so to a point u agree we shouldn’t get him when he’s available (2nd maybe 3rd round)
"You’ve got to play every game like it’s your last because it’s definitely survive-and-advance or don’t survive and school," Tiller said.
i like LeFevour.... Skelton is too Null-ish for me
two Keith Null’s on same roster?
"You’ve got to play every game like it’s your last because it’s definitely survive-and-advance or don’t survive and school," Tiller said.
by stlcardsfan4 on Apr 5, 2010 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, could be
maybe Canfield then. That would be an awesome 1 and 2 I think. Canfield has great field awareness and decision making ability.
Scouting overview of Glen Dorsey 3 years ago
The most decorated player in the history of the school, Dorsey continued a recent tradition of Tigers defensive linemen earning first-team All-American honors, as at least one LSU player has received that honor since the 2000 season. The defensive tackle’s mantelpiece was certainly filled to capacity after the 2007 season, as the consensus All-American and Southeastern Conference Defensive Player of the Year earned several prestigious awards.
Despite constant double- and triple-team coverage, along with late season knee and back problems, Dorsey continued to dominate. He extended his string of at least one tackle made in his last 30 games, and walked away with the 2007 Nagurski Award, Lombardi Award, Outland Trophy and Lott Award, becoming the first player in school history to earn any of those postseason honors
Glen Dorsey ( the next Warren Sapp) DT first round bust. Copy&paste Suh name in their
Unfair to call Suh a bust
Just like it is unfair to call Bradford a bust before they are even drafted. I am in the pro QB camp, but I am also operating under the assumption that the FO feels that both will be great NFL players.
Free Brandon Wood!
Exactly right.
I only threw in the Jamarcus Russell parentheses to show that great Pro-days don’t always translate. Bradford is not Russell, nor is he Alex Smith. He’s Sam Bradford and only time can tell how his name will be remembered, but Alex Smith and JaMarcus Russell’s failures of yore have no bearing on it now nor will they later if Bradford somehow doesn’t live up to expectations.
Same with Suh. Dorsey isn’t an indicator and neither are guys like Carriker before him. Matter of fact, both of those guys are out of position. Because of that, we don’t even know how good/bad they truly are.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
by TrojanRam on Apr 1, 2010 11:31 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
agreed
we really need to make a carriker-dorsey trade, i bet that would improve both us and the chiefs.
Dorsey is playing out of position in KC ...
… he’s a 4-3 DT and KC uses him as an NT and/or DE in a 3 – 4. Unfair to really call him a bust (though I wasn’t too high on him that year anyway).
That being said, Carriker and Dorsey are both playing out of position … a straight up trade might be a good idea for both teams.
Yes, I actually wore a watermelon on my head during the Rams SuperBowl victory in 2000.
Yeah ppl ignore facts like that... playing out of position really hurts players if they can't
adapt. Bet if he was in his natural position he wouldn’t be considered so much a bust. Hopefully Carriker loses some weight and moves around the line. He had a really good initial burst coming out of college and can help; get to the QB.
absolutely not
if we draft suh in the first round, i would rather wait to see how mallett develops and take him next year…
u can't pick hoping mallet will be available
a lot can happen
butt…. im not for drafting a QB if its not sam bradford or after round 5
"You’ve got to play every game like it’s your last because it’s definitely survive-and-advance or don’t survive and school," Tiller said.
I like McCoy
He’s not the most talented, but you can’t deny how well a mobile QB that can run the west coast offense would fit. And it means we get to take Suh (most importantly).
I'm just a Texas Longhorn fan
And I have no stake in this debate, but I just want to applaud the author for a very good post. I love good football discussion.
I do, however, have a good idea of all three players mentioned because they played in our same conference.
I think Bradford is good and I actually would have liked him better than Stafford last year (not as good an arm, but smarter and more accurate). Still, I think it’s tough to pass on a guy like Ndamukong Suh. I understand the Rams have a lot of problems to fix and QB is one of them, but I think Suh can be dominant and have less of a risk factor than Bradford, who is coming off of a serious injury and has never quite shown that he can handle a pass rush all that well.
As far as the debate between Suh and McCoy, I’ll just paste something that I wrote somewhere else:
I consider Ndamukong Suh one of the best defensive tackles I’ve ever seen in college, and I felt that way before he obliterated our offensive line in the Big 12 title game (something that I and many knowledgeable Texas fans were afraid was going to happen in the first place)…
Look, McCoy is a great player, and before the season I would have put had McCoy and Suh virtually equal. However, as the 2009 season wore on, it became increasingly clear to me that Suh established himself as not only the best DT in college football but probably the best defensive player. In fact, I thought Suh so distanced himself from McCoy that I was surprised that people considered McCoy the better prospect.
There are several reasons why I think so. First of all, I believe Suh to be the overall better athlete; perhaps it is true that McCoy is quicker (never noticed that when I saw them play), but even so, Suh’s combination of quickness and strength is impressive. One play sticks out to me, which I mention in my preview of Nebraska’s defense here: Against Oklahoma, Suh bull-rushed Jarvis Jones, who was pushed backwards like he was wearing skates, and then simply shoved Jones into Landry Jones, causing an incomplete pass. He made it look so easy tossing around a fellow huge football player, and my first reaction was to laugh at Oklahoma. Unfortunately, my second was, “Oh my God, our interior line may have to try to block that guy.” There were other “Wow” moments for me when watching Suh, including one play where he snatched an interception out of the air against Missouri. I do not have any such “Wow” moments watching McCoy.
Secondly, Suh simply had a lot more production than McCoy. Over at Barking Carnival, a writer who goes by Nickel Rover compiled these season statistics of Suh and McCoy, also throwing in Texas’ own Lamarr Houston in for comparison. Keep in mind all three players play the same position as 3-technique defensive tackles.
Gerald McCoy: 34 tackles, 15.5 TFL, 6 sacks, 2 PBU, 9 QBH, FR, FF
Lamarr Houston: 68 tackles, 22 TFL, 8 sacks, 4 PBU, 28 QB, 2 FR
Ndamukong Suh: 85 tackles, 24 TFL, 12 sacks, 1 INT, 10 PBU, 26 QBH, FF, 3 blocked kicks
It is clear that the numbers show a giant discrepancy between McCoy and Suh; in fact, McCoy is comfortably behind Lamarr Houston statistically. By no means am I saying that statistics alone should settle this debate, as should be clear by my other articles criticizing the over-reliance on raw numbers to evaluate players. Thus, I would not argue that Houston should be above McCoy on the draft board. However, because McCoy and Suh are already seen so close together, Suh’s higher level of production is a big point in his favor.
Also for comparison’s sake, the author above listed their respective statistics playing their best opponent: The Texas Longhorns. Here they are.
Gerald McCoy: 3 tackles, 2 TFL, 1 sack, 5 quarterback hurries and 3-5 false starts/holding penalties.
Ndamukong Suh: 12 tackles, 7 TFL, 4.5 sacks, 2 quarterback hurries and 5-7 false starts/holding penalties
McCoy had a good game against us, for sure. Suh, however, nearly destroyed our entire season by himself.
Thirdly, I would argue that Suh had such higher numbers despite the fact that McCoy had a better supporting cast. Both OU and Nebraska had very good defenses last year, but OU had more quality across the board. Oklahoma had better defensive ends and better linebackers, and probably better safeties. Nebraska heavily relied on Suh for their defensive scheme; Oklahoma did not rely on McCoy in the same way. Because of this, Suh faced more double teams and teams tried to scheme around him more, and he still put up ridiculous numbers for a DT. Against Texas, Nebraska was in a dime deense most of the game to a) Cover up their weak link, the linebackers and b) To shut down the Texas passing game. They relied on Suh to both kill our run game (he did) and disrupt our passing game and allow their secondary to jump routes and play with everything in front of them (he did). Going against Oklahoma, I knew we had a matchup disadvantage but I thought we had a chance to hold our own. Going into the Nebraska game, I was deathly afraid of Suh, despite the fact that I thought OU’s defense as a whole was better.
Therefore, the way I see it is this. Suh is a freak of nature who is both quick and powerful, put up absurd numbers for a DT, and did so despite the fact that opposing teams knew Nebraska relied heavily on him. Gerald McCoy is a good athlete who had a good career at OU but never dominated like Suh did even though he had better players around him. After all, McCoy tagged [Texas Guard] Charlie Tanner as the best offensive linemen he ever went against in college, and there are clips you can maybe find on Youtube showing Tanner doing a pretty good job on McCoy, particularly in the 2008 game. Suh ate Tanner alive (as well as Hall… and Snow). McCoy is not a bad consolation prize at all, but if I had a choice, I would easily take Ndamukong Suh. Who knows, perhaps McCoy turns out to be the better player after all, but based on what we know now, I can’t see how it’s more rational to take him over Suh.
In other words, I wouldn’t blame the Rams if they took Bradford first overall, but if they do go DT, I think they should definitely take Suh.
by TheElusiveShadow on Apr 2, 2010 6:16 PM CDT reply actions
Btw
That first video was painful even for me to watch. Much props to you Rams fans for sticking through THAT.
by TheElusiveShadow on Apr 2, 2010 6:20 PM CDT reply actions
sorry
I just don’t see any thing special in Bradford. Am I missing something? To me he seams weak. Maybe the weight he put on will help. I don’t know. He had one really good year in college two yeas ago because he had all day to throw to guys who were wide open. Like most college QBs he was in a spread offense. No one knocks him like they do to any other QB that comes from the same type of system. He has accuracy. Most QBs in the NFL do. Big deal. His arm isn’t that strong. It’s alright, but it won’t awe you. He doesn’t seem to me to have the same type of leadership and passion that Colt McCoy and Tebow have. The last time he played he got knocked down and out for an entire season. He wasn’t even hit that hard. Now he is talked about as being a #1 overall pick? Based on what? Accuracy and intelligence? All the top five QBs have that. I would rather have McCoy, Tebow, or Clausen before him. I guess only time will tell. But when I see him, its unimpressive.
To each his own, I guess.
We’ll have the answer in three weeks.
who cares how it seems to you lol keep your opinion to your self
you can take Tebow on the team you start ok ,Thank you for your time lol
you would be wise to take your own advice
Yes, I actually wore a watermelon on my head during the Rams SuperBowl victory in 2000.
Lmao. Or I could be Billy Devaney writing on his spare time...
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
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