Depth thoughts: The Rams in free agency
by Ryan Van Bibber on Mar 23, 2010 12:08 PM CDT
in 2010 St. Louis Rams offseason
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PrintSo far, the waves being made by the St. Louis Rams in free agency have been mostly small ones. Rather than try and land the few big fish that were out there, many of whom were beyond their best years and dealing with injury questions, GM Billy Devaney focused on finding depth. Hank Fraley, AJ Feeley, Kevin Dockery, Fred Robbins and the others are experienced guys brought here to play small, but important roles backing up or playing along side the younger players on the roster.
The strategy has been controversial mostly because the moves lack headlines. None of these guys represent a big move like last year's signing of C Jason Brown (which was actually the Rams first move of free agency, correcting Gregg Rosenthal's ill-infomred rant from yesterday), who was lured in with a pricey multi-year contract to fill one of the team's essential needs. For a Rams team with so many needs, the lack of splash has been a little deflating for us fans who'd like to see the team jump back into contention as soon as possible...damn the cost!
But depth is a need too. Since the latter part of the decade, the Rams have had noticeable talent deficiencies among their starting units, but injuries during that time pressed even more questionable talent into starting duty, all but assuring the woeful records of the last few seasons.
I could rattle off plenty of examples of the Rams lack of quality depth exposing them, but I'll limit myself. With the offensive line starting to click last season, a spate of injuries and the release of one player left that unit pretty threadbare. Incognito was gone because of his thick skull, Bell was injured, Smith was injured and a string of replacements couldn't prevent the Rams from getting sacked 15 times in their last three games of the season, including eight sacks in the season finale against the 49ers that sent rookie Keith Null to the bench with concussion-like symptoms. Would you rather have a proven starter like Hank Fraley ready to fill-in at guard or Roger Allen?
Think about that as it applies to other positions on the team. On the DL, would you rather have Fred Robbins in your rotation or LaJuan Ramsey? At CB, Kevin Dockery or Quincy Butler? At QB, Feeley or Boller?
As far as the notion that these additions seem to consist heavily of former Eagles and Giants, well, like I said in the comments last night: it may be cheesy, but it's an effective, low-risk strategy when you're grabbing role players and depth guys like this. (Contrary to Rosenthal's analysis, the James Butler addition was fruitful for the Rams; he was the only guy who knew the defensive scheme coming into the season). Fraley, Robbins, Dockery and Feeley have a pretty solid track record when it comes to the injury report too.
And of course, the "their guys" theory only goes so far. Devaney, Spagnuolo, etc. have also been bringing in their guys through the draft, guys like James Laurinaitis who have far bigger roles to play than depth, and will bring in some cornerstones in this year's draft as well. Throw in player brought in who are not from their former teams. Players like the freshly re-signed James Hall, who was brought in by, gasp, Linehan and Haslett, or Jason Brown, or Ron Bartell. This is how rosters get built...and rebuilt. Coaches bringing in their former players, journeymen, is nothing more than a time-honored strategy. When those guys make for upgrades beyond the seventh-rounders and undrafted players down the depth chart, it's a useful strategy.
More free agent thoughts...
It's great to see James Hall back in the mix. It seems unlikely that the Rams will bring back Leonard Little, with Hall being, ideally, more of a situational/rotational player, and a glaring need to add a DE through the draft, the Rams just won't have the roster spots.
TE Darcy Johnson is here to compete with Fells, probably for the third TE spot, assuming the Rams add another TE via the draft or trade, which I still think is possible. He's no lock to make the final roster, though I look forward to seeing what he has to offer.
It's impressive that given a choice to sign with the Super Bowl champs or the 1-15 Rams, James Hall chose the Rams. Who knows what kind of contract talk there was, but it still says something about what's going on at Rams Park.
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FREE AGENCY
So far I HAVEN’T seen anything accomplished to improve on a 1-15 season especially on OFFENSE. The RAMS OFFENSIVE STRUUGLES will CONTINUE until they can find someone who can help Jackson with the RUNNING GAME, I am tired of FIELD GOALS and LOSING IN GENERAL. There is an answer out there but will the RAMS find it and spend the Money to have it? I DON’T THINK SO. Best case scenario 3-13 but I dont know who they will beat!
by California Mobile CPR on Mar 23, 2010 4:15 PM CDT reply actions
NFL = Not for Long
We were a has been team before we made a splash and grabbed Faulk from Indy and Warner from the Supermarket. We can catch lightning in a bottle. We did it under Vermiel.
Make the moves necessary to become a winner. I agree with California Mobile CPR
Spags and company may get a reprieve with this new owner for 2 years but if we continue losing this team and the leaders should get flushed. If Jackson goes down we are toast because our defense, though improved, cannot spend the whole game on the field.
I am tired of losing too.
by FightingAmish on Mar 23, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey California
So there is an answer out there to help Jackson with the RUNNING GAME? If you could enlighten us that would be super. What free agent signing would make you happy? A lot of people seem to be pissed that the rams didn’t make a big splash in free agency but I fail to see a move that the rams could have made that would have made every one happy.
It is milk it may be spilled it may be delicious.
well you can't go into the free agency
like a drunk guy who just got his pay check. You have to sign guys to a reasonable contract and actually find the right players that will fit your team. To me their was a few guys worth really signing, I think we can address most of the needs this draft and have a competitive season.
You mean like...
Round 1 Bradford
Round 2 Best
Round 3 Thaddeus Gibson
Rounds 4-7 TE, DE, OT, CB
Quit making excuses for Rams management! Can you tell this struck a chord?
Back ups for S JX? Mike Bell, Jerome Harrison and Quinton Ganther all showed flashes of brilliance last year and Justin Fargas has been a solid runner for a few years. Willie Parker was a top ten back before his injury and tons of backs have rebounded from worse (Mcgahee, Terry Allen, Steven Davis). All of the above could handle 10-15 carries a game and put up 50 yards, they are not too old, they would not cost us an arm and a leg, all they would do is put some much needed depth behind Steven Jackson. This goes for almost all positions on our roster. Don’t give me that stuff about “we aren’t signing them because it’s a thin free agency” or "they are all too old." Those excuses are getting very tired and besides, most of the players that the Rams have picked up have been old non starters. I would bet that if you truly looked at all of the free agents that were/are available you could find players that would dwarf the Rams current starters in ability and statistics at all but 3-4 positions. We are not signing these guys for some reason other than they aren’t good enough, and that’s that. We are 1-15 as we stand, 80% of our starting roster would be a back up for any other team. Why are we taking on back ups to them when we should be making most of our starters back ups? We have an entire team of them. Yeah the free agent market wasn’t the best due to the uncapped year, so what. Is that what Spags and Devaney are going to use as an excuse when we go 0-16 or 2-14? We were one Josh Brown PASS away from being statistically, the worst team in NFL history. We have more money left over than just about anyone and other than add a few older back up players we have done nothing at all to improve on our record for next season. This is an insult to me and all other Rams fans who buy jerseys, tickets, NFL Package and so on. I don’t want to hear "We are adding depth" or "they are doing their best". I want to see talent added to my team, not just the 2 starters that statistically come out of each draft. Not one team other than the 90’s Cowboys have done it entirely through the draft and they had 6 first round and 6 second round pick’s in 3 years to work with. Sorry to be a downer but, let’s call a spade a spade. Go Rams!
Here are some examples of free agents that were/are out there that could be or have been a big help to the Rams just incase you have no idea who is/was on the market. Here is a list of players that I feel would greatly benefit the Rams.
WR- Antonio Bryant, Lance Moore, Javon Walker, David Tyree but, really this is a take your pick, lots of depth in free agency. Huge need plenty of depth.
RB- Mike Bell, Justin Fargas, Willie Parker, Jerome Harrison, Larry Johnson. Again almost all RB’s in free agency would be better than what we have backing up SJ.
TE- Anthony Fasano, Ben Watson or trade for Olsen or Scheffler. The draft may be a better bet here.
OL- Chad Clifton, Duce Lutui, Logan Mankins, Mark Taucher. Not a big need but we could use one or two.
DL- Greg Ellis, Marcus Spears, Maake Kemoeatu. Could use a couple.
LB- Keith Bullock, Elvis Dumerville, Scott Fujita, Antonio Pierce, Pisa Tinoisamoa and so on, plenty of depth in free agency.
S- Will Allen, Antoine Bethea, Gibril Wilson…We may be in serious need of a safety.
CB- Dunta Robinson, Carlos rodgers, Ken Lucas, Roderick Hood…Could use at least one solid corner.
I stayed away from over priced big named players (minus Dunta) and first round tender RFA and still found good talent.
You're absolutely right Everett
I think as the years of losing keep piling up the fans begin to expect less and less from our team. I really thought this year we would go out and add some quality starters via free agency, but as in most years the Rams disappointed me once again. There were many free agents out there that would’ve been significant improvements. The front office has it in their mind that they want to build through the draft and it seems to be set in stone. But how much can be improved with the amount of picks that we have? How many of our rookies will be able to come in and make an impact? Or how many of these picks will be flat out busts and never make a difference at all? I understand that rebuilding through the draft takes more than a year to show signs of success. It will actually be probably 3-4 years. But from a front office stand point how can you expect fans to endure another 1-15 type season? And by not going after some quality starting/pro bowl type free agents that’s exactly what is going to happen. They’re not stupid up there. They realize that fans will always be fans and that reguardless of the record the jerseys and the tickets will still get sold. Deep down inside they would like to put out a winning team and make us happy, but the greedy side of management is keeping that from happening. So until the fans demand a winning team and make the suits realize that we won’t put up with it we will continue to stay in the basement of the NFL. From a business stand point I wouldn’t put another $30 million into the team when putting $15 million gets me the same result. Even organizations like the Browns and LIons that are known for losing every year have made significant improvents through this years free agency. The Browns being a perfect example of getting a guy like Holgrem in there that has decided that losing is no longer an option. Now whether or not it works is something else, but at least you can see the effort being made to improve. Does providing depth at a couple positions show a teams effort in improving? Does not picking up a play maker on either side of the ball give me much to look forward to? It absolutely doesn’t. It makes me bow my head and plug my ears so I don’t hear my friends and the rest of the sports world comment on what a crappy organization they think we have. The worst part about it is that I have nothing to say to counter their argument. The phrase “Just wait and you’ll see” got old after the the 2005 season. Thank God for giving the NFL the Raiders and Al Davis. At least with them around we can say our front office isn’t the worst in the NFL.
With that being said all we can do is wait for that miracle draft to come and help change our minds about how crappy the 2010 season is going to be. I truely hope that something happens from now until the draft that really makes us a better team. I hope at least 1 trade is made that brings us some hope. Although we all know the Rams aren’t known historically for making any real splashes in the draft, maybe these guys will prove a lot of us wrong and show the commitment to providing us with an improved team. And although 2-14 is an improvment on last year I am looking for more than that. Is my team getting 5 or 6 wins out of the question? Are we really that much worse than the Raiders, Browns, and Seacocks that all won 5 games last year? I’ve been following the Rams since I was 7 which makes it 25 years now that every September I remind myself that it’s a new year. The problem is that during that 25 year span I’ve been able to enjoy only 9 winning seasons and 1 super bowl. So when I say as fans that we need to demand our front office to give us a winning team it does come with many years of frustration behind it. And I truley believe that fans can make a difference (unlees you’re a Clippers fan). I’ve yet to see this team perform this bad for this long. 5 wins in 3 years is an absolute embarassment and the time for improvement is now not in 3 or 4 years. It doesn’t make us any less of fans to start demanding more from our organization. If they can’t realize our passion for our team then, although my heart will always be with the Rams, my hard earned money won’t be and neither should yours. It’s time for them to give us a team that earns our money rather than us giving it away and watching it go every where else but back into the team that needs it the most. And I’ve seen the posts that remind us to keep faith and remember that the people in place now are commited to winning. While all that sounds good I have yet to see any moves that make me start to believe. Unfortunately all I have to base these guys on is the 1-15 season. It’s very saddening to look around the league at watch how succesfull organizations are run. Now granted every team goes through the 2-3 year rebuilding process, but 4 winning seasons in 20 years isn’t rebuilding. You don’t see the Eagles,Cowboys,or Steelers going through 5 year droughts. So my faith is with these guys to show me a winner and if they don’t it’s time to go out spend the money and get a proven group of peole that can.
Interesting.
WR – I don’t really see anything on that list that upgrades our WR corps. We need a # 1 and there isn’t one listed there. We have more than enough 2’s and 3’s. Btw, David Tyree would be hard pressed to be our 3rd best WR.
RB – I would love to sign Justin Fargas. Heck, I’d take Fargas, Bell, and Parker before I drafted Best in the 2nd round. Not that I think Best isn’t a good player. I just feel we can add something much more helpful to the team in the 2nd round than a backup running back.
TE – Personally, I’m absolutely fine with what we have for the time being.
OL – I think the O-Line has been solidified (lack of a better term). Could we use one more? Sure, but I don’t see it as a major priority.
DL – Well, we should be getting Gibson back, so that helps with the overall depth of the D-Line and I figure we’ll be drafting a DT in the 2nd or 3rd round, so there’s more. Adding a DL could help.
LB – First of all, I have zero faith in Pisa. He doesn’t upgrade anything if he’s on the bench with his arm in a sling which has become more and more the norm with him. As for the others, I’d expect them to sign someone to fill the spot they don’t fill through the draft. Then again, we’ll be getting Vobora back and, while he’s never going to be a Pro-Bowler, he’s far from a weakness. I could live with JL, a rookie draft pick, and Vobora for a year.
S – The Rams are going to re-sign Otogwe so this is a moot point.
CB – I agree about upgrading the CB position. It’s bad, but what we need here is a #1 CB so we can make Bartell the #2. It depends on the money, but I wouldn’t overpay for most of these guys.
Anyway, you do make some good points but you always have to consider how attractive the Rams are to FAs. I’m sure St. Louis isn’t the number 1 destination point for most of these guys and are requiring more money to sign with the Rams than other places. As time goes on, and some of these guys are still without jobs, their prices will come down. Plus, I expect some guys to pop lose of their teams after the draft. It always happens. And you can really get a bargain.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
I haven’t really seen much about Otogwe and his free agent market status. I am guessing he isn’t getting big offers but, are the Rams willing to give him what he wants? Also Denver has put a 1st round tender on B Marshall but have not had any takers. Our second rounder may be enough to bring him in. Not sure if he is a “four pillars” guy but, he is a number one for sure and a pro bowler. Also, we have all the money in the world so that should not be a huge factor in making a decision on player. Yeah most don’t want to go to the Rams but, ultimately money talks in the NFL. Lots of free agents still go to Detroit and Cleveland.
That's it, though
are you willing to over-pay to get a free agent? Well, over-pay more than you would normally.
Anyway, as far as Marshall, I’m sure they’d be willing to take a lesser value draft pick but are you willing to give up the 33rd pick (or even our 3rd round pick) for a guy who’s no guarantee to stay with the Rams more than 1 season? I wouldn’t.
And as for Otogwe, who cares if we offer him what he wants? He’s not worth 7+ Mil per year and no one is going to pay him that. When it’s all said and done, I think he’ll be back with the Rams for no more than 3 mil per season.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
Couldn't have said it better myself...
“Plus, I expect some guys to pop lose of their teams after the draft. It always happens. And you can really get a bargain.”
Tackle Box we need talent and if that is what the market charges unfortunately, that’s what we have to pay.
The upper echelon guys are the only players that I have seen go for too much anyway. Me personally, I would pay a few talented free agents to come to the Rams, yes. If Marshal would sign a new contract (3-4 years) I would hand over the 33rd pick in a heartbeat. Again and like I always say, I would take the sure thing over a question mark college player any day. The Rams are 1-15, the least talented team in the league with a lot of money to spend. They are a business and need to put out a good product for their clients, the fans. How many people own a Donnie Avery or Kent Jordan jersey besides their families? How many people are going to buy Direct Ticket to see their team get humiliated week after week? Fan attendance at the EJ Dome was lower last year than it was in LA the last few years of its existence. Keep up the good work boys; I want to see the Rams back in LA anyway.
Can you post some numbers
to back up that last comment about the relative attendance in LA and St. Louis?
As far as that comment
all I can find is that the 1994 LA Rams drew 42,000 per game and the 2009 StL Rams drew 55,000 per game.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
I lived in LA for the last three years of the LA Rams and I have been to several games in St. Louis. The dome was much less full than Anaheim Stadium during the last days. There may be a couple more at EJ Dome due to it’s size but many more empty seats. I did look for the numbers and came up with nothing. Will look again tonight.
Just because there are empty seats
doesn’t mean the ticket wasn’t sold. We have 50,000+ season tickets sold.
Brandon Marshall is not a savior.
With that being said, IF he were to agree to a 4 year extension, I’d be willing to at least entertain the idea of acquiring him. He brings a lot of b.s. with him, so that has to be taken into account.
But, what exactly has he helped Denver do? In the 4 years he’s been a Bronco, they have a perfect .500 record (9-7, 7-9, 8-8, 8-8) and has never played in the playoffs (they made the playoffs the 3 years before he arrived). Not that a WR is the end all be all and I know that much more goes in to a team’s success than just one player, but those teams weren’t the 2009 Rams, They had a good running attack, a Pro-Bowl QB (in ’08 and ’09….Plummer was a Pro Bowl QB but not in ’06), not to mention at better than average defenses in 2 of the years . Oh, as well as a Hall of Fame coach for the first 3 years.
In his 4 years, the Broncos never had a higher ranked offense than 16th in the NFL (17th, 21st, 16th, 20th).
(btw, that 9-7 season? Marshall started 1 game and only caught 20 passes and was the only season of the 4 in which he wasn’t the prime target of the passing attack).
Is he good? Yes, but is he worth big #1 money and the 33rd pick overall? I’m not so sure.
Anyway, would I like to have a talent on the Rams like Marshall? Heck yes. I just don’t know if I’d give up the 33rd pick and a big contract to Brandon Marshall.
Keep up the good work boys; I want to see the Rams back in LA anyway.
Too bad our new owner is a local fan of the St. Louis Rams.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
What WR is? He has over 100 catches three years running and besides his rookie year he has never been under 1,100 yards. Thats a star WR. Jake Plummer was a bum.
Jake Plummer might have been a bum
but he went to a Pro Bowl and in a 3 season stretch with the Broncos, the team went 33-15 (10-6, 10-6, 13-3), went to the playoffs all 3 years, and played in a Conf. Championship. The Broncos had good defenses those years, but their offenses were just as good.
Actually, as a starter in those three seasons, the Broncos went 32-11.
Say what you will about him, but that team was successful with him as their QB. Hell, in 2004, he threw for over 4,000 yards and 27 touchdowns. Those teams had very good running attacks but they relied pretty heavily on the pass.
Nevertheless, I’m taken aback by this comment.
What WR is?
If I’m reading that correctly, you’re saying Marshall isn’t worth a 33rd and 4 years of top money. So, why then would we do it?
Anyway, yes the yards and catches are impressive, I’m just wondering where the touchdowns are. With the yards and catches he’s putting up, he’s only once been in the Top 10 in receiving touchdowns (7th in ’09 with 10, which is his highest mark).
I mean seriously, I highly doubt he’d be willing to automatically sign an extension with the Rams before the trade is completed plus he brings baggage. Trading the 33rd pick for him (which is in all actuality a 1st round pick) just doesn’t make any sense.
If you were talking about the 3rd pick, I’d be more open. But the more I think about it, the more I don’t like it.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
He reminds me of T.O.
An outstanding receiver, but eventually toxic for the team. One team after another decided T.O. wasn’t worth having on the team, in spite of his receiving. I just see the same thing coming for Marshall.
Be concerned
but don’t get a angry pitchfork mob after the management and coaching staff. The 1-15 record shows how much we really really struggled but thier was games where we were still competing. We gave the superbowl champions a game that was a close one. I know 1-15 is still 1-15 but I still have faith and really think alot of these moves will help out in the long run.
Mcnabb, Jackson, Marshall, now thats instant offense!
Ok, well who do you see the Rams taking in the draft at 33? Is he going to be of the same caliber as a Marshall? This is statistically doubtful. Is he going to make the instant impact that Marshall would? Our WR core is not very good at all. I watched games where I honestly didn’t see anyone but Amendola open for most of the game and that was with 8 or 9 in the box. That is very sad.
Marshall would stretch the defense maybe even draw a double here and there. This is an intangible that could help our offense (ranked 32 in the league) blossom, especially if we bring in Mcnabb. As far as his touchdown count, he had ten in 09 with Orton throwing to him and has led the team in touchdowns since becoming a starter. How many touchdowns did Steven Jackson have last year? Four? He must really suck, right?
Plummer reminds me a lot of Vinnie Testaverde, he was over hyped from the beginning and had a 2-3 good years and that’s it. He has a career QB rating of 74.6 and threw as many int’s as he did touchdowns. In today’s game he would have been a career back up. So yeah, I think he is a bum. I do like him as a person but that doesn’t make up for 161 int’s.
Mcnabb
isn’t worth it he’s declining and seems to choke a lot. Marshall will cost a pretty penny and I would hesitate giving a second rounder for him. I think if he was a ram it would be nothing but a constant struggle to keep him happy. So it’d be kinda ridiculous to invest all this money into him when we could pick up solid players for the price of him.
by keeperskillz24 on Mar 26, 2010 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Keeper..
First, we have the money and are not picking up anyone at all and second, Mcnabb brings a vast wealth of knowledge to a rookie QB which is more valuable than anything he does on the field. If he wins us a few games while he is at it that is just a bonus. Almost every successful QB on the field today sat out their first season to learn under a vet. Romo, Schaub, Warner, Rodgers, Rivers, Brees, Palmer and Favre are just a few of them. Marshall is a top 5 or 10 WR and is well worth the pick. Is he better than Donnie Avery? Yeah much better, and that was our second rounder in 08. Is he better than Brian Leaonard? Yeah much better and that was our 2nd rounder in 07.
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