Rams Snag Two More Giants
by Eric Nagel on Mar 22, 2010 5:59 PM CDT
in 2010 St. Louis Rams offseason
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PrintFirst off, a thanks to Mark Clark for pointing this article out to me, and also to TrojanRam who was first to report the news on TST.
The Rams today signed Kevin Dockery (CB) and Darcy Johnson (TE), both of whom are ex-Giants. VanRam had an article about Dockery awhile ago, in which he points out Dockery would most likely fit in as the nickelback. I tend to agree with Van, he'd definitely be an upgrade over the players we have currently, and barring setback (or the loss of O.J. Atogwe), he would help build a solid secondary for the Rams. I don't know too much about Darcy Johnson, but given the need at TE, more players couldn't hurt.
What I don't understand however, is the PFT article (linked above). I'm not sure if Gregg Rosenthal had a bad day today, but he has absolutely no love for the Rams. He wrote that:
Rams coach Steve Spagnuolo is threatening to be the poster boy of the problem.
(signing players from the coaches former team)
While there are examples of this strategy not working out, I find it strange that he slams Spagnuolo for bringing players, his players, to the Rams. Spagnuolo accomplished a lot in New York with these players and even if they only provide depth, you can't exactly knock the coach for trying to find talent. It's not like the Rams are loaded with it anyway. Rosenthal also attacks James Butler:
Last offseason, the first unrestricted free agent Spagnuolo signed was safety James Butler, another former Giant.
Ask any Rams fan how that one worked out.
James Butler had a good season last year. He was injured, but when paired with O.J. Atogwe, the Rams had a respectable duo at the two safety positions. I'm not sure if this is just another case of, "I've never watched the Rams, but their record is 1-15, so everyone on the team must suck," but the team does have a few bright spots, James Butler being one of them. He's not a shut down safety, but I think the saying, "the whole is better then the parts," fits in here.
So Gregg, stop being a hater, and TST, say hello to two more ex-Giants.
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I'm getting kind of sick of seeing ex-Giant players showing up everyday.
The G-Men won the SB a couple years ago, but they crashed hard last season after starting 5-0. I hope I don’t hear that big ol’ Micheal Strahan is suddenly a Ram.
I'm negative just because I'd prefer some new players besides ex-Giants (or Eagles)???
I also like Sam Bradford. Is that bad too?
Forgive me
but where in that post did I make any indication that your idea is “bad”?
The House of Spears reigns supreme
I can understand why Spags...
…is signing these guys. This team isn’t one or two players away from a championship and needs to build through a couple of good drafts. Until that process is complete it’s a good idea to have veteran guys on the roster who are familiar with the systems on Offense and Defense to help guide the rookies and younger guys through. I for one am in favour of having those guys here
by IrishRamsFan on Mar 23, 2010 3:22 AM CDT up reply actions
good call double R
I was thinking the same thing
"SJAX" - The extra strength cleaner that fights off that Stubborn, Stingy Defense
Last year they had 30 or 53 players that were 7th rounders or undrafted's. Who cares where upgrades come from?
Its not as if they have made a bunch of bad signings, or are only looking at the Giants. Since the coach has more inside info about these guys than maybe any other players, I’d expect him to be able to properly evaluate them (in most cases)….so what dif does it make? You’re getting sick of them upgrading the second team, really?
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
by CoachConnors on Mar 23, 2010 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
"poster boy of the problem"
I think that’s kinda dumb. And Rosenthal got the whole idea from Ross Tucker who wrote about it because a former coach hired him when he wasn’t much of a player anymore. Maybe Rosenthal should come up with his own ideas as often as he suggests coaches come up with different team’s players
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
I like this...
….one less position to address in the draft!
I know this goes against Spags’ “Four Pillars” that he preaches. He shaved off a lot of older players off the team last year but he is bringing in some seasoned veterans so they can already be in place when all the young talent is brought in from this years draft. Dockery, Feeley, Robbins and Fraley will all be backups and Willie Parker will be another solid backup if we can offer him a contract.
What a terrible premise
The Rams are bringing in former Giants to add depth and it makes a whole lot of sense.
And to add depth we have to add Giants?
There’s 29 other teams to get players from and I still refuse to believe that we are getting the best players possible by signing ex-Eagles/ex-Giants exclusively. We had a chance at Brodney Pool and I would have loved that signing. And we’ve yet to sign anyone who is not a Giant/Eagle. The only ones I can think of in the past two years are Brown, Karney, and Bajema. There may be a couple more, but think of all the Giants/Eagles. Off the top of my head: Butler, Robbins, Dockery, Darcy Johnson (who is probably nothing, why bother with him, 9 career receptions and he’ll be 28), Douzable, LaJuan Ramsey, Hank Fraley, Danny Amendola, Brandon Gibson, AJ Feely, Craig Dahl. That being said, I’m not completely against it. Most of these guys can be dumped easily and cheaply and we should get back on the track of starting our own team and not having Giants/Eagles JV team when the cap comes back. Because there were some good moves last year. Robinson, Amendola, Gibson, Dahl, Brown, Karney, and Butler were all solid additions. This year gives us veterans with experience who will teach and be stop gaps until we get a few more drafts and solid free agencies under our belt. Still, could we at least look in other places?
All these guys you mention are important
because they are “glue” players that fill in for depth and spot starting. They are familiar with Spags and his approach to coaching. They form a common team sensibility that will make it easier for new players to learn from. This is the ENTIRE POINT of building a team to take on the personality of its coach. Knox, Parcels, Bellichek, you name it, it’s how it all starts!
I like a lot of those guys
I’m just saying they could probably better. They know the system but other possibly better players can learn it. We’re not even looking at players from most of the league.
I agree with your desire to add better pieces
it’s just that we, as diehard fans, have no idea what they have kicked the tires on. Plus, the draft is coming quick and we have some very decent positioning for picks. Who knows what deal we might be able to swing as far as drafting great players and possibly trading for other very good players. Let’s just wait and see. i am getting a little ansy as well but I have faith in this coach and FO. They inherited a heap of crap and they are trying desperately, in a very short period of time, to clean it up.
Don't make it sound like we aren't looking anywhere else
The FO probably has orders not to spend money unwisely. Right now we have more than just a shitty team. We have ownership limbo and labor strife. It’s probably the worst time in Franchise history to be in the FO right now.
Depth
The RAMS need as much depth as possible. I agree with blindmouse.
The Rams need the depth
and bringing in former players should be a good thing. All of the Rams signings were for depth. Now we need the draft to add more play makers.
actually, the first free agent signing the Rams made last year was C Jason Brown
and that has worked out well for us. These are journeymen guys, they play (mostly limited) roles on the depth chart and are known commodities to coaches. That’s not the dumbest strategy in the world when you’re looking for 3rd and 4th CBs, backup QBs (Boller was not a former player of those coaches).
Did I miss something on James Hall? He’s a Haslett guy…remember.
They’ll still be bringing in lots more guys through the draft, that are “their guys” too.
Plus, it’s shady market for veteran free agents out there…lots of older guys and damaged goods. these newer guys have been mostly healthy in their careers. The Rams don’t have much margin for risk.
It’s cheesy, but it can be effective.
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by Ryan Van Bibber on Mar 22, 2010 8:21 PM CDT reply actions
johnson is here to compete with Fells
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by Ryan Van Bibber on Mar 22, 2010 8:23 PM CDT reply actions
Is Phil Simms really coming to the Rams?
This just in….Phil Simms has signed on to be the Rams starting QB for the 2010-2011 seasons! Other players have been brought in for interviews Joe Morris and Dave Meggett declined to say if they had signed but, I feel good about it. Lawrence Taylor has gone on a crack binge but is expected to show up for an interview next week after downing a gallon of Super Flush. Wait, that’s wrong…hold the press’s we got who?! Darcy Johnson? We are hiring from the Female Bikini League now?! Nice, at least there will be something to watch while we put our starting back ups on the field with a rookie QB. Go Rams!
Im fine with the moves, especially Dockery
One thing I cannot stand about the Rams is their lack of depth with CB’s. I would love to get another solid CB along Bartell
Rays and Rams Baby
Lets face it...
There is not many players out there in the league that WANTS to play for the league. Spags is bringing in players that respect him, and his style of coaching. I think that if we had a noname coach, then NOBODY would even consider playing for us.
Consider it a positive that we are bringing in young players who played with a winning team, and even have a superbowl ring on there fingers.
Good point.
Spags’ previous players know and like him already; otherwise, getting free agents here for a reasonable amount of money could be quite difficult.
This is overblown, anyway. The uncapped year has severely hampered the free agent class this year; adding depth guys Spags is familiar with is fine. Many coaches do this, not just Spagnuolo.
stupid stupid critics
honestly who cares what team a player comes from?!? If he’s a good signing and works out well he can be from the english sillynannies. People just have to find some way to whine in particular people that talk about the Rams. Spags seems to be signing guys he’s familiar with and has seen rather than old unknowns perhaps? All these guys are now Rams and their pasts are now irrelevant. They aren’t Giants they are Rams and people need to pull their arse out of the pit of despair and realize that the Rams are making failry solid moves and signings in a desolate FA. I think its safe to safe that with a cap and more options available the Rams wouldn’t just be signing ex eagles and Giants..
by Bralidore on Mar 22, 2010 10:51 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I bet Patriots fans and any fan who followed a team Parcells coached
really hate/hated him….bringing in all their former players and such.
Does anyone really think signing Hank Fraley, Kevin Dockery, James Hall and Fred Robbins are bad moves? Did anyone watch what happened when mediocre players got injured? The Rams were signing no-names off the street to fill in.
I think they are solid signings...
….as far as “poster boy” comments, don’t all coaches do this? I remember when Mike Martz went to Detroit he turned the Lions into Rams North. When Rex Ryan went to the Jets he turned them into Ravens East, Lovie Smith brought a few ex-Buccaneers to the Rams when he became defensive coordinator. If Spags is comfortable working with his ex-players let him do his thing. I don’t think James Butler was as bad as some people are saying he was.
in the era
of dogmatic “system” defense and offense, I imagine it’s a huge coup for a coaching staff to have veteran leadership who completely “buy in” to coaching philosophy and set precedent for rookies and other FAs with the “we gotta ring in NY this way, we can get one here too” kind of way. wow. that was a run-on sentence.
by mooseknuckles41 on Mar 23, 2010 2:41 AM CDT reply actions
This was by design
This is why they jettisoned a bunch of the older guys, this is why they drafted 4 pillars type guys, and this is why they kept a guy like SJ39 despite fools calling for him to be traded.
Trade away Jackson and water down his talent into 3 lesser players? Does anyone think that’d be attractive to guys like Hall, or to Giants who have rings already? I’ve said it before (November, actually) getting the buy in is Job #1 in any turn around situation and this is another piece of evidence they are being successful at it (the first piece was hearing SJ talk about how he had bought in a year ago)
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
by CoachConnors on Mar 23, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Who knows
But I think when you look at specifically how to go from losing to winning, there is a way to do it, and a way to just spin your wheels and get nowhere. (probably more than one way of each but you know what I mean)
When I look at the specific moves the Rams have made, it the order they have made them, I strongly believe they are doing the right things. I’m talking on a player by player and position by position basis, very specifically….not just a warm fuzzy feeling because I like the team.
What do I have to compare it with? Besides years of futility under the previous Rams management, I am a Raider season ticket holder and have spent quite a bit of time looking at the specific moves they make and I can tell you this: the difference between doing what it takes to build a winner and making moves that result in nothingness is very clear.
I’m a positive person, but I am not a blind polyanna type of fan.
Try this: look at the positions you would want to fill first on your team, the guys — in order — that you would want to start with. The highest quality players in the most important posiitons on the field, and work your way all the way down to punter or 3rd string long snapper or whatever. Who is the most important player on a team? Who do you need to get first if you were building a franchise from zero? Then match those up with the players in positions that Devaney has brought to the Rams.
I’m here to tell you, they are absolutely doing the right things in the right order. Truly believe that. I wish I could say that about the team I pay to go see, but it’s just not true with them.
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
by CoachConnors on Mar 24, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
sweet two more guys
that know the system and can help the new kids get up to speed with it. i think these are good signings.
"SJAX" - The extra strength cleaner that fights off that Stubborn, Stingy Defense
I like the signings so far
And hope they work out great, but when do we we stop signing UFA’s that have formerly played for Spags and Shurmur?
There is not many left. To the best of my knowledge (and apologies if this is wrong) the remaining UFA’s that have previously played for them are:
DE Renaldo Wynn (Giants 2008)
DT William Joseph (Giants 2007)
WR Sean Morey (Eagles 2001 – 2003)
WR Greg Lewis (Eagles 2003 – 2008)
TE L. J. (John) Smith (Eagles 2003 – 2008)
OT Jon Runyan (Eagles 2000 – 2008)
OG Bobbie Williams (Eagles 2000 – 2003)
DE Jevon Kearse (Eagles 2004 – 2006)
DE Derrick Burgess (Eagles 2001 – 2004)
You could also add Tracy White (Eagles 2008) and David Tyree (Giants 2008) who played for Shurmur and Spags respectively, but on the other side of the ball.
Other than Burgess and Morey, and maybe Kearse, who are probably not interested in signing for us, there is not much there that seem even remotely attractive even for depth.
So, have we finished signing ex-Giants and Eagles players yet?
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