Scenarios where we should consider drafting a QB!
by CaliRamMan on Feb 4, 2010 9:22 PM CST
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PrintOk, I've said it before so I will be clear- I don't think we should draft a QB with the #1 overall pick in the draft. First, the amount of money that the position demands (guarenteed money) is astronomical considering the kid has never played a down. In addition to that there are the concerns that Bradfords' shoulder may look good, but will still be a liability. The other QB Clausen, I don't want to get into that too much, but I don't think the Rams should draft him. However, I want to look at a situation where I think most, myself included would be comfortable at drafting a QB. I have been thinking about this quite a bit since 3k put up his mock. I don't think Detroit is going to give up their 2nd rounder to move up one spot. I think they will be alright with either DT. Next in line is more of a realistic situation. Tampa Bay has the 3rd overall and the 36th and 43rd pick in the draft. That's two 2nd rounders. In the situation that Tampa decides Suh is that good looking and that he could make that big of a difference on their defense, that they are willing to part with an early round pick to move up for him. Having those two 2nd rounders makes this very possible for them. I really don't think that they will want to trade spots and give up a 2nd, so this is what I see as being the possibility:
Rams trade #1 and late 5th round or 6th round pick to Tampa Bay for the #3 pick and either the 36th or 43rd pick in the draft.
With that said, Suh most likely goes 1st, McCoy goes 2nd to Detroit, and at 3 the Rams Draft QB BRADFORD. Now options open up:
1) Keep the QB of our future, and cross our fingers that shoulder can hold up while adding an early 2nd round pick. or
2) Watch Washington salivate and decide how much they would give up to have Bradford. All assuming that Clausen just doesn't do it for Shanahan.
Either way we move down, save money on that 1st round draft pick, add some more early round picks to help fill holes with young talent, and possibly end up with our QB of the future. With that said lets look at some 3 round scenarios:
1st pick 3rd overall- Sam Bradford QB
2nd pick 33rd overall- Jahvid Best RB (I must note that this is assuming that Iupati will not be around)
3rd pick 36th overall-Brandon Spikes LB (teams would be dumb to pass on him, but this talk about his speed and eye gouging has him moving down boards)
4th pick 65th overall- George Selvie DE or Arthur Jones DT
Second Scenario(trade with TB for 3 and 43) then trade with Washington.
1st pick 4th overall- (I want to say Eric Berry, because of his versatility and aggresive ball hawking ability. Coach Kiffin did say that he could have been an All-American shut down corner if he wanted to), but there is also a guy like OT Russell Okung (which takes care of the O-line for the future and is a nice insurance poilcy should Smith continue with head problems or if the team decides they really want to part with league leading penalty getter Alex Barron)
2nd pick 33rd overall- Jahvid Best RB
3rd pick 37th overall- Brandon Spikes LB (thanks Washington)
4th pick 43rd overall- maybe one of those TE in Gresham or Hernandez if they can make it, otherwise I will be looking at DE like Everson Griffen or George Selvie.
5th pick 65th overall- I take interior lineman here, whether it be OG Asomoah or OG/C Pouncey, or the Defensive side in DT Arthur Jones.
Disclaimer: I have no problem taking Suh, and think it would be a good pick should we stay where we are. However, I want value out of our picks more so than I want needs to be reached for.
What do you guys think? If the price is right, would you be willing to pass on Suh?
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i agree with you 99%
i have no problem with taking Suh, or passing him up if the value is right.
But I disagree with a RB in the second. We have too many holes on this team to be bolstering the (literally) only position on this team where there aren’t any concerns. Yeah, SJax needs a legit 2nd back, but I"ve always been of the opinion that backup RB’s are easily solved through FA, instead of using our (high) second round pick.
I see your point...
…but our offense needs speed and playmakers, Jahvid Best brings both of those to the table
by joeanderson31 on Feb 4, 2010 11:38 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think he would
I kind of doubt he’d get the playing time to literally bring those things. A pick this high needs to pass protect well for a rookie and have opportunities for carries, just my opinion but I don’t see him as having either with this particular team. Which is a long way of saying I also think 2nd round is too high for a RB who will play behind SJ39.
We can be the Jets
and run the ball all day.
On the court they call me The Cloud, because I make it rain. They also call me Money, because I drop dimes.
If they offered that trade
I’d be all over that like a fat kid on cake.
If CJ Spiller starts to fall, I’m going to be all over this forum with TRADE UP spam.
The House of Spears reigns supreme
I'd want
Both TBs 2nd rnd picks. Then might be able to trade them both to get back into the first round. Or keep em and fill holes. Don’t think a 2 and 5 is enough. IMO
we have to be "somewhat" realistic
Do you really think that Tampa (who has many needs) would trade the #3, 36, and 43 for the #1? Keep in mind Ditka is not at the helm. It just isn’t likely to happen. If they are willing to give up the 36th pick to move up 2 spots, I’d be real happy.
Jahvid Best: Talented Enough to Make a Difference Now?
Jahvid Best’s blocking and pass protection are highly suspect. Most rookie RB’s don’t see the field much in the beginning because of that aspect of their game, and with him it’s a weakness.
And he isn’t very big anyway, so even if he’s willing I’m not sure he can be as effective as a this high of a draft pickneeds to be. Considering they have an every down back Steven Jackson, I could see him getting very few snaps, only as much as SJ wanted to come out of the game. He’d need to really be “wow” in the carries he does get.
I could easily see him with game stats like…4 carries for 15 yards. And a sack given up.
If a player can't pass block, then you don't put him in on passing downs.
We got an every down back, but since he carried the load he got injured. We need someone that can get yards so we can save Jackson’s back.
On the court they call me The Cloud, because I make it rain. They also call me Money, because I drop dimes.
You won't want to invest that much in a guy who can only play half the downs
Well yes, I agree that they need to find a guy to come in and take the pressure of SJ’s back. I really worry about Jackson’s injury probably because I went through it myself and can relate to how serious it can be. It doesn’t seem as bad as a sprained knee but it is, disks are sneaky that way.
I don’t think Best could do that next year because of his inability to pass block will mean he can’t be on the field anytime, as required. You can’t just play him on running downs. You know they can’t be that predictable. As we saw in pre-season, if your RB can’t pass protect, he can’t go in and take over for SJ for a whole drive at a time, because he’ll get the QB killed. The blitz pick ups were so bad last pre-season, I thought Bulger was going to be literally destroyed he got smashed so often.
Can you imagine spending a 1st round pick on a guy and then being told, “Well, he can only play on half the downs.” if you spend a big draft pick on him, he also needs to be available on any down, or he’ll be seen as a bust (whether he actually is or not).
I think Best would be much better off in a system where he splits time (like the Colts, Saints, Jets do) but he will not live up to expectations in any way if he goes somewhere and is expected to spell an every down back.
I was just gonna say
Jahvid Best is a 2 down player. Probably a slot receiver who can run a reverse or wildcat play once in a while. He would really benefit in a spread option, though, hint, hint.
Connors, you're thinking short term
This last year, Tefford really worked on getting Best more catches out of the back and working on his pass blocking. Being able to have seen him in person several times I will agree his pass blocking was awful, but it definitely improved as this year went on (until he got his brain rattled). However, I’m not looking to draft him for just next year. I know he is not going to be our primary back next year, but I was thinking that he gets more like 10-12 carries a game, which then allows us to reduce SJax’s carries to 20-25 a game. Our best player has taken some serious abuse and he will not be able to last too far in the future if we cannot alleviate some of that strain on his body. And I would like to have him around when our team finally starts winning.
Best will be a guy that can learn under one of the best backs in the game, while at the same time offering a solid back-up that is a home-run threat every time he touches the ball. Change of pace would be an understatement.
Think Dallas-Barber/ Jones combination. Felix Jones has a very similar skill set as Jahvid Best. Barber was signed to a big contract and due to his injuries, they invested a 1st round pick on Felix. That has seemed to work pretty well.
Not to mention in a couple years when SJax can’t go an entire season (which he has had trouble with in the past) we will have a guy that can take over and keep our running philosophy intact. We gotta think more than one year in the future. The league has been moving toward multiple back systems, and I think we will move in that direction. With that said, I don’t want the back ups to be Gado or Darby.
Well, long term, I don't think that Best will ever be able to take over for Jackson
Pass blocking is that important. He still came out of passing downs in college, how does that translate to the NFL? Just my opinion, and there’s no shortage of those on Best, but I don’t think he is a long term replacement for SJ and I don’t see him as ever being strong enough to be be elite in the NFL.
But maybe you’ve hit on something by suggesting he fits Dallas’ current system. I guess you’re also saying the Rams should change to that? I’d like to get SJ less carries but I would rather see the Rams spend that high of a pick on someone built more like SJ himself, or AP, or NYG’s Brandon Jacobs. Maybe it would make more sense for him to go straight to Dallas and be Felix’s backup. 1st-2nd round is overpaying for him, IMHO.
by CoachConnors on Feb 5, 2010 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
to clarify
He’s a running back. He’s a 195 pound RB who wasn’t strong enough to block Pac-10 linebackers. So his value must be framed around that.
Now if he was a WR with those limitations, it’d be a different converasation. Who cares if your WR has touble blocking LB’s, that’s not that big a deal.
But a 1st rounder on this RB I think is too much, Mid 2nd is probably too much.
Considering
I didn’t say anything about us changing our system to that of Dallas’ I’m not sure were you were going with that. To imply for Dallas to draft Best is just dumb, they currently have 3 productive backs. The point I was making was that Dallas had a power running back in Barber (a back that runs aggresively similar to SJAX), who was taking a serious pounding as well as dishing it out. They then go and draft a change of pace back that offers a different dynamic to their running game in Felix Jones and it seems to have worked well as a compliment of styles.
You have to understand that RBs like AP/ Brandon Jacobs are rare. 210lb running backs are more common in the league than those 240 lb running backs. We got lucky to grab a guy like Sjax, that has a combination in size and agility.
I’m not sure if you are thinkning of two years back when Best did have trouble picking up blitzes, but it was apparent that he deffinitely worked and improved on that part of his game this year. The reality is these are college players and all of them have something they need to work on. I’m confident that Croom can help straighten that part of his game out. Especially, while giving him the chance to learn under a guy like SJAX.
You are the only guy I have heard that doesn’t think Best is worth a 2nd round pick. I still think that the kid has 1st round talent, and I am not going to forget about a year and a half worth of impressive play, due to one defficiency or a concussion.
I ususally agree with a lot of what you have to say, but on this one I am think we will have to agree to disagree. I really like Best and I think he can bring something special to this team, especially to an offense that has looked too stagnant at times.
I leave you with this…A few years back people said the same thing about Maurice Jones-Drew and Chris Johnson. That they were to small and that they would not be able to pick up additional blitzing players. Both situations have turned out ok…to say the least. I think we have to evaluate the player, not the stature.
I agree that we will have to agree to disagree
That’s a better outcome than can be had on some boards that devolve into stupidity.
Am I really the only one saying Best is being overvalued?
First!
Well, I’m ok being the only one right now. Its a long time till the draft and if I’m eventually proven wrong, I’ll be happy to admit it.
Maurice Jones-Drew is a stud, a very strong guy, who’s nickname is appropriately Pocket Hercules. He’s just short, he’s not little or lacking in strenght at all. I think Best lacks strength, and isn’t a good comparison. CJ is better.
I’ll have more on Best and his draft prospects in a later post. Hope to see you there.
by CoachConnors on Feb 6, 2010 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
As it pertains to football
No big famous orginization you’ve heard of, and none of it was really noteworthy.
I live in Caliornia and am not some famous coach. I use my real name and email address, so I don’t have anonymity out here.
I also worked as a coach and official in USA Track & Field, I did private training for athletes for both skills and strength/conditioning. These areas could easily be considered my spciality. I try to write so as to obfuscate some the individual athletes I’ve worked with, as it’s not my business to go public with anything about them here.
I did some good work in basketball for both Catholic and public schools out here that I’m very proud of, as both assistant and head coach.
you probably would have
If I would have coached football at a big school. But as I said, my football experience was not really noteworthy and doean’t go beyond working for just a couple years with a couple of former NFL guys in a youth tackle league (high school freshman age). I learned as much as I taught.
oh and
I coached a couple years in the NFL sponsored flag league, which was primarily for passers and receivers, and was all kinds of fun, if that counts for anything Haha
I have a coaching resume with some nice accomplishments
I was employed as a coach, but not as a HS staff football coach.
My experience with freshman age guys from Hiram Johnson HS wasn’t with the school disctrict, and I think the league is now defunct. I know the team is for sure because the coaches there spread out to different schools around south Sac county when Rosemont HS opened. But that’s football experience, anyway. I coached football less than anything, actually.
This is not the forum for this, I don’t think anybody really cares for non-Rams related stuff.
I have more 20 years experience training athletes
Just never on staff at a high school.
Worked with NCAA athletes, yes.
Worked with HS athletes, yes.
Paid to train individual athletes, which may be my favorite, yes.
Private league football, yes.
Public Jr High, yes.
Private Jr High, yes.
Really enjoy getting a youth age athlete that wants to be a champion. Doesn’t matter how good they are now, just that they have a desire to be good. That’s the best.
The staff coaching job I had with Sac City Unified Scool District really paled in comparison.
I'd like to see Jackson with us when we start winning as well
I’m afraid he’s gonna look a little more like Larry Johnson by the time that happens though.
I totally forgot
but i heard troy smith was asking for a trade a while ago and while i was checking yahoo sports rumors it helped me remember. Why don’t we try to bring in troy smith for a 5th or 6th round pick. I remember every game in college he played he was pretty much a beast except for the senior bowl and it plummeted his draft stock. If we decide to go with suh i wouldn’t mind allowing troy smith to be our stop gap solution at QB
Neither would I
But I’m in the ‘what would it hurt’ camp. He may be the flyer that we missed with Null. And if not, oh well we just inflate our draft position next year too.
Thats a fair way to look at it
but the way i look at it is that unless you can guarantee tell me Jarrett brown, Freddie Barnes(unlikely), or zac robinson are gonna be there in the 5th round most other people are pretty much irrelevant
If we are going to trade picks for a QB
Lets hit up Minnesota and go after Tavaris Jackson or Sage Rosenfels (something like that).
Tavaris is young and he really looked good after being benched 2 years ago. Rosenfels is a solid QB and an experienced vet at the position, with not a whole lot of wear and tear. I’ll take any one of those two for the next couple years while we groom the next QB.
wouldn't you rather try your luck
with a heisman winner thats hasn’t been given the opportunity rather than a scrub who had his chance twice and has never even completed 60% of his passes in a season
That's a great question
for which I will not offer an aswer, but I kind of like the fact he’s asking for a trade. Says something about his confidence.
I'm not saying that should not consider
Smith. I was simply suggesting while looking at other option why not hit up a team that has 3 viable options at QB (assuming that Favre is still considered a future option), and maybe try to trade with them. In looking at Tavaris, the kid has been in the league for 4 years and has improved each year. In fact he had a QB rating of 95.4 in the 5 games he started while completing 59.1% while throwing 9TDs-2INTs. Oh and this last year he completed 66.7% of his passes.
So I guess I should ask you, would you rather have a career back-up who has only started 2 games over a guy that has a few years as a starter and has had some success?
he didnt even play this year
he came in once for farve after halftime when the vikes blew out the seahawks so im not sure that should be a valid arguing point. But if you can tell me that farve had the same effect on tavaris that he did on rodgers then ill take him over troy smith
There is a long list of Heisman winners who weren't worth a high first round pick
For instance, are you talking about Tebow? And a fifth round pick is the kind of price I’d be willing to pay at least once a year until we get the positions depth chart filled out. Smith wouldn’t be the only attempt I’d make but I’d certainly give him a try. I’m set on getting a franchise starter this, or next year. If by this or next year, I mean next year anyway.
As I recall, Rosenfels is something of a wild man
and has trouble holding onto the ball when he takes off running. He is willing, and has the physical tools, but makes too many bad decisions.
I think you are
referring to that Indy game where he tried to scramble for the first down and fumbled the ball, to give Peyton a last chance to win a game…bad idea. He normally is a smart, conservative, game manager. He is a solid QB, who finds himself behind better QB’s (Matt Schaub, Brett Favre) In fact Minnesota went after him to make him their starter.
Heres my take
If Tampa makes the trade and we get the number 3 overall, we have to take our franchise quarterback there. Jimmy Clausen is the most NFL ready since he worked under Charlie Wiess.
1st – Jimmy Clausen (QB)
2nd – Mike Iupati (OG)
2nd (from TB) – Sean Weatherspoon (OLB, not Spikes, he’s an ILB)
2nd (from TB)- Javhid Best (RB)
3rd – Javier Arenas (CB)
4th – Geno Atkins (DT)
5th – Alex Carrington (DE)
5th – Adam Ulatoski (OT)
6th – Dennis Pitta (TE)
7th – Brandon Lang (DE) or Terrell Hudgins (WR)
Spikes can play anywhere
Charlie Strong used to line him up all over the offensive line. He would have no problem playing the SAM. He looked good blitzing C, and D gaps as well as dropping off into coverage. So even though he was labeled as a MLB, he has played all the positions and each one very well.
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