Trading down for a QB squares with precedent at Rams Park
by Ryan Van Bibber on Feb 20, 2010 11:00 AM CST
in 2010 NFL Draft
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PrintThe rumor that surface this morning - that the St. Louis Rams and Tampa Bay Buccaneers have discussed swapping first round picks - makes lots of sense given what little we do know about the Rams draft board and preferences this year.
First of all, the Rams are said to have DT Ndamukong Suh atop their draft board, considering him the best overall player in the draft. Secondly, we do know that they would like to draft a QB as well, having flirted rather seriously with the notion of taking Mark Sanchez last year but not able to get a deal to move down a few spots and not hesitant to overall value Sanchez with the second overall pick. That tells us that Devaney et al stay fairly true to their draft board and player valuations, and indicates that they might be hesitant to use their first overall pick on QBs Sam Bradford or Jimmy Clausen. Using the most recent examples, let's compare what kind of deal a QB picked first and third might demand in the way of a contract.
Matt Ryan was drafted third overall in 2008. In late May of that year he signed a six-year, $66 million contract with $34.75 million guaranteed.
Last year's first overall pick, Matt Stafford, signed a six-year, $72 million contract with $41.75 million guaranteed.
It's not a perfect comparison because things like contract values change every year, but the jump from 2008 to 2009 isn't too big of a leap for this example. That's seven million dollars difference, which doesn't seem like a lot when you're thinking about such big numbers to start with. Consider this, the Rams paid Oshiomogho Atogwe $6.34 million using the franchise tag last year. The franchise tag made him one of the 10 highest paid players at his position, safety. That gives you some context as to what seven million dollars potentially means for a franchise scrambling to fill lots and lots of needs.
Now, lots of things could change between now and April. Stafford's rise up the draft boards came late in the game, very late. If Bradford looks like he did during his 2008 season when he works out for scouts on March 25 and his health checks out, it's hard not to imagine him as a legitimate first overall pick. If Jimmy Clausen puts to rest questions about his maturity, blows the door off his team interviews and looks sharp at his work out, he'll be in a similar situation as Bradford, solidifying his place in the conversation of potential top picks.
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tradeing out is a pipe dream
QB would get something like $80 million contract with $46 million guaranteed
DT would get something like $68 million contract with $35 million guaranteed (with suhs agent might be more)
me personally thinks Clausen should be your pick.. he is better the Bradford in every aspect of the game..
arm strength…
accuracy…
leadership…
toughness..
film room..
quick release
confident
tough plays through pain
spent 3.5 years in a West Coast offense
but he is a jerk sometimes i thing the best comparison to his attitude is cutler
I would agree with you only on your last point.
What is with the Clausen love on here? Among the draft gurus his stock is dropping, not going up. The Sporting News now only has him as the third best QB and he’ll be lucky to hold that.
show me witch draft guru has him falling... i have seem he going high and high bradford is the one falling to 30 sometimes
and the clausen love?? maybe it has some thing to do with his 28 tds 4 int 68% comp… show me another junior QB that has done that.. i will give you a hint there isn’t one… he is the most pro ready QB to ever come out…
now what is up with your hate on him?? i think it is your crush on suh
i have yet to see a resptbel draft guy have clausen fall past 5..
you need to understand that a QB will never be the best player in the draft… will never be the BPA… and never be the safe pick.. but you need to take risk every now and then yall have been going safe pick for a long time now and it hasn’t gotten you very far.. it is time to get some skilled positions..
http://walterfootball.com/mattblog091229.php
give tat a read… he allso has a lot to say with th pick here
well when you start going after my spelling
all that shows me is that you know i am right and you lost
LOST!
You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.
Why are you always here trying to convince us to do something that would let DET get Suh?
Now you’re trying to shoot down the idea of trading down so TB won’t take him ahead of DET.
i want berry....and TB need to much to trade up whay would the trad up knowing the y could get
suh mccoy or berry ate there pick??
Hey Detroit...
Don’t you have your own Lions blog? Then go there and rant and rave to them, we don’t need your kind of attitude here.
Go Rams!
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now." --- Bruce Coslett, New York Jets Head Coach circa 1990s
my kind of attitude??
i just trying to tell you the reality of the fact that trading out the 1st pick is very unlikely.. and then yall act like TB doesn’t need there 2nd or w/e.. there is a reason they are at the top of the draft the need the picks just like you do… so why would they trade up to get suh when you can get a starting DT in the 5th this year with how deep it is… its just not going to happen..
every team wants to trade back it just not that easy… and with no CBA it will be even less like for a trade to happen that early in the draft
give that a look it is the list all GMs use to deturmen the value of draft picks
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670
so akoreding to this
TB GETS
1st over all is 3000
RAMS GET
3rd overall 2200
35th overall 550
67th overall 255
so now put your self in TB shoes would you give up 3 starters for 1??? i think not
Not all GMs use that to deturmen the value of draft picks.
I dowt if many do at all. It doesn’t even factor in players involved in trades. And we are getting a sekond OR a third, not a sekond and a third akoreding to my sourses. So they’re giving up a backup QB and a sekond or third rounder. That’s two starters for 1 great one. And they still have another erly sekond rounder.
if his knees dont snap in 1/2 he might be..
knees are a huge red flag for DL and OL.. all so other then this last year suh numbers haven been shocking.. i think the best player from top 5 is berry.. eveyone has been more constant(not the right word but i thing you get what i saying) then suh.. .. but no one had a single season like him.. though you could make the argument Clausen did.. 28 tds 4 int 68 comp no ones ever done that in a pro O befor
the point is no one knows if he will or not there hopeing he will
he could be the bigst DT bust since ( donno who is b/c no one rembers DT) or he could be next sapp
you can say the same thing on anyone though… Clausen could be the next leaf or the next manning
Them hoping he will be is all that matters
It doesn’t matter if he’s a bust or not. Because If they think he will be the next Warren Sapp they will make the trade, regardless of what his career actually holds.
As I have posted on other threads here,
Bernie M. had the Sporting News draft guru on his radio program a couple of days ago. He has Bradford first on his board, Suh second. He has dropped Clausen to third among QBs, well down his overall board. He said Clausen simply doesn’t have the physical tools to get much better than he is now.
So he has Bradford first on his board based on 14 month old game tape?
To be fair, and this hurts a Trojan to say, Clausen is ahead of Bradford right now simply because he actually played last season. I’d prefer Bradford, but quite frankly he’s somewhat of an unknown right now. Clausen, just based on how the fact that he’s played, is ahead right now. All eyes will be on March 25th when he works out at OU Pro Day, but as of now, neither Bradford nor Clausen would be in my top 5 overall prospects.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
um what???
so he thinks Clausen cant grow anymore? why is that b/c he had the best year for any junior has ever had well suh will fall to the 3rd round now b/c he had a grate year so that most mean he cant grow anymore…
Bernie M has a few scres lose if he truley fells that way
having him as num 2 is fine i disagree but at lest it is somewhat reasonable
who he have ahead of him McCoy or tebow?? either way he is wrong… if yall go Bradford or Clausen then the other one will be gone by the 5th pick(be it trade or a team that is there).. there is just to much need for QB this year and a huge drop off after Bradford and Clausen
i just want to know what about 28 tds 4 int and a 68% comp rat sounds like crap to some of you guys..he has the the best BLEND of arm strength and accuracy of any QB in this draft… great leadership and a very quick release… i understand that you want to wait for a QB but you really shouldn’t… you don’t know if McCoy will be there in 2nd… you don’t know if locker will be at your pick next year… and even if he is next year is the year of the WR / RB so yall will want one of them…
we could debate this all day but the fact is the rams should draft a QB with there 1st pick… what there going to do might be a diffrent storye though
As I said before,
it was just Bernie Miklasz’ radio program. The draft expert doing the talking was the guy who runs the draft board for The Sporting News. He has been doing this for many years, and his work involves a great deal of tape study to see how the players actually performed in the games, not the first impression that comes from watching the games. And no, he didn’t have either Colt McCoy or Tebow ahead of Clausen.
As someone else said, I’m getting a little tired of Detroit fans coming on here to tell us what the Rams should do. I think your Lions need all of your attention, since the Rams beat them in Detroit. We simply don’t need your help.
you said he was 3rd QB... so who did he have ahead of him??
i would assume Bradford was one of them who was the other??
i also never said yall needed help
i implied that the guy that had Clausen as the 3rd best QB needed it.. and now that i know tebow and McCoy are also behind him.. it makes him look even worse…the only one i could possible see would be pike and that would be to the raiders so it isnt worth much..
and about lions fans coming in here yall as well as the rest of SB did it ot us last year..not that means we can but i just saying that what comes with the 1st pick..
what i wanted to know in the 1st place was why you guys hated him so much.. i don’t understand how some one can throw 28tds and only 4int but have such a big hate train..
First, I don't think anyone hates Clausen.
Some of us just think he is overrated. If we take Suh in the first round and Clausen magically was there for our pick in the second, I think we would pick him and think we were lucky. We just don’t think he belongs in the top five.
The Sporting News guy has the Tennessee QB second on his list of QBs. He feels he came on very strong during the year, was outstanding by the end of the year, and that he has a tremendous upside due to his physical gifts. I’ve never seen him play, so I have no opinion.
Finally, I was having a bad day this afternoon and I came on a little strong in my comments. I think it’s fine for anyone to comment here from time to time. However, if you check I think you will see you have been the dominant poster on this thread, and I don’t think that’s appropriate for someone who isn’t a Rams fan.
well when people say we can maybe get him in 2nd or hes not a top 5 pick i think it is hate
what do you think a QB has to do to be a top 5 then?? there has been much worse QBs taken that soon… he is the most pro ready QB to ever come out… his coach was a guy that was know for making QB.. he has a 7 to1 td int rat.. i just dont understand how that not worth top 5…
and are you talking about Crompton??? i cant see him going in the top 5 rounds let alone 1st his accuracy is pathetic.. he has a strong arm though.. but he is a bigger jerk then Clausen..
Back to the point of this post....
All spelling aside, bottom line…..I like the idea of trading down because that means we will get more picks on the back end. Right now with our two picks in the 5th round and two picks in the seventh round we will have a total of 9 picks in the draft. We have 6 holes to fill on offense and 4 holes to fill on defense. That trade with Tampa might give us the one or two extra picks we need to fill all those holes.
Some websites have Claussen dropping on their boards and others have him steady and possibly going in the top 10 picks. With the plethora of talent on the defensive side of the ball and offensive linemen I’m starting to wonder how other teams needs might cause Clausen to slip late into the first round ala Aaron Rodgers? If you look at all the teams that are picking in the second half of the first round, a lot of those teams are set at quarterback. What do you think are the chances that Clausen slips to our first pick in the second round? Are we willing to take that gamble? And if someone does pick him up, would we be satisfied taking Colt McCoy in the second round? Just saying…..
Good point Nacho
My ideal scenario is:
1. Suh
2. McCoy? (I’m on the Colt Bus)
3. best CB
4. best OLB
5. best RB to compliment SJAX’s power (Best if he falls this far)
6. Hole fill
7. Hole fill
etc..
best is a 2nd rounder..
colt might be there in top of 2nd but i dont think he will..
1. Rams
4. Redskins
6. Seahawks
7. Browns
8. Raiders
9. Bills
11. Broncos
14. Seahawks
26. Cardinals
30. Vikings
are all teams that will be looking at a QB.. the Panthers who dont have a 1st might trade up for one into the 1st
good comment
but Best will be gone as much as i’d like to see him in a rams uni too.
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
Unless the trade goes through
…and we use Tampa’s 2nd round pick (one of our two 2nd round picks) to pick up Jahvid.
Otherwise, we’d have to hope he fell to us in the third – which would be a big drop.
If Rams traded down to #3, what would stop somebody who wants Bradford from trading up to #2?
Washington, Seattle, Cleveland, Oakland, and Buffalo are all in good position to trade up with Detroit at #2 to get a QB, without Detroit falling out of the top 10.
Detroit might be motivated to take less than ideal value to trade down from #2 if they really wanted Suh and they think nobody else is worth #2 money.
Wouldn’t St. Louis only consider trading from #1 to #3 if they didn’t care which QB they got—Clausen or Bradford, since the QB they wanted most might have been gone at #2 to somebody who leapfrogged ahead of them?
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
What will stop all this qb talk???
Unless Rams trade down and pick up an extra first rounder or high second, qb should not even be in the discussion except for “media play” prior to draft day to build trade valuations – a game within a game………
We obviously must
God knows he’s our ONLY option if we don’t go Bradford or Clausen with the first overall pick.
as of right now he is...
who do you think you can get that beter then him?? FA is very thin this year as well as the draft
Detroit will be happy with McCoy
Sounds like they’ll take either McCoy or Suh, whichever is available.
I Can Just See It Now...
after all this discussion…DT first, no, QB first, no DT first…wouldn’t it be funny if they the Rams didn’t go either way and picked up WR Dez Bryant or RB C.J. Spiller.
My point here is that the Rams have many options with having the 1st overall pick and brighter football minds than ours will be doing the sellecting. Too many people here seem to think they are ‘all’ knowledgable when it comes to the NFL draft.
Go Rams!
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now." --- Bruce Coslett, New York Jets Head Coach circa 1990s
Bull pucky
The Fans here do know better. We’ll see if the rookie front office can match the finesse posted here! Just check it out—we have thousands of experts here. There should be a place in Canton for TST., (excepting the dumbasses that disagree with the oblivious truth, of course.)
The "oblivious truth"?
Is that a truth that isn’t paying attention?
Webster according to TST:
The simple and obvious truth espoused here on TST seems to be oblivious to the other posters who are just fishing on this site without a hook.
Suh - A BRAND NEW SCENARIO
Rams draft SUH.
Then, after draft – or maybe later in draft – package SUH for other draftees, draft picks, players, etc….
Know one knows what the lower picks will be. If terrence Cody is still availanle; or Trent Williams (R.T.) Rams will consider seriously – Spags said, “trenches first, then outward”.
This scenario makes a lot of sense
Think San Diego a la Eli Manning. Manning refused to play for SD, so what do they do? Draft him anyway, and force the Giants to give them extra picks.
I say…ask Tampa for the world. When they say no, you draft Suh anyway. Then with Detroit on the clock, call up Tampa again and ask for the world again.
The best case scenario—Tampa pays a king’s ransom to move up 2 spots, and the Rams use the extra picks to address more holes on the roster. The worst case scenario—Tampa still refuses to deal, and the Rams are forced to have the best player in college football anchor their D-line for the next several years.
and even if they are passing on a position of need espely at a position as important as QB
isn’t really the best thing to do
we could talk about what if scenarios all day.....right now bulger is are starting qb
but if he is gone then we should start keith null
If we don't draft a QB we're not getting rid of Bulger
unless he is physically unable to play. Our management has a plan in place for our QB next year. Its not like they’re going to completely ignore it and release Bulger and not find a replacement for him.
I get tired of seeing Jackson get pounded while facing 8 in the box all the time
Get a QB to help the O before Jackson is worn into oblivian
Any rookie QB is a gamble – but if the Rams don’t draft anyone they have already failed
At least Bradford or Clausen have a chance to be franchise players
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
wow
i now know have a little better understanding as to why Detroit is such a crap town after reading this thread….they don’t teach anyone up there to read, spell, or type properly. Never have I seen such a steady stream of fail-boats when it comes to trying to convey an idea.
"KHAAAAAAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Great, the Rams were just sold to a new owner from Pakistan. This place just keeps getting better and better….NOT.
by Lakers since 1977 on Feb 22, 2010 7:31 AM CST reply actions
I have a new theory concerning det32.
He has come on this Rams site and constantly pushed Clausen. He dominates threads with his love for Clausen and won’t take a hint that Lions fans should back off.
I think the best explanations are 1) he is Clausen’s agent, 2) he is really Clausen’s mother, or 3) he is one of those guys who go to other teams’ websites just to stir up trouble. Since I’m guessing the first two options aren’t likely, the third seems like a reasonable theory. I would suggest our fearless leaders on this site tell him to back off or get lost.
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