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Random Ramsdom, 2/2: More Vick to the Rams talk

It's Super Bowl week, and that means lots of St. Louis Rams news to talk about...or not. Actually, there are a few meaty tidbits out there to chew on and digest. Let's slather it up with steak sauce and dive in forks a blazing. 

Michael Vick tol Dan Patrick that he's still a top ten quarterback...top ten in the NFL, not the Angola Prison League. Yeah, I don't know about. He hasn't thrown more than two passes since 2007. And let's frame this in terms of the Rams, who are said to be interested: would you be comfortable handing the keys to the offense over to a guy who hasn't thrown more than two NFL passes since 2007...with Keith Null as the primary backup? Answer that honestly. 

PD columnist Bernie Miklasz has an update on the Rams ownership situation. Basically, Checketts is trying to add another partner to his mix in order to have more security behind his offer. There's reportedly some more local money on board. Maybe the Busch family is ready to spend some of that sweet Belgian scratch.

Dick Vermeil likes the Bears' decision to hire Mike Martz as their new offensive coordinator.

Mocking the Draft has a Gerald McCoy scouting report posted and a slew of others.

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How can he still be a top 10 QB

if he never was? His highest QB rating in his career if I’m not mistaken is in the 70s.

"Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that."

by Brandon Birkhead on Feb 2, 2010 6:47 AM CST reply actions  

lets just say.....

im more comfortable with vick being our starting qb than bulger or boller

by Danteslion on Feb 2, 2010 7:25 AM CST reply actions  

I don't think

any of those three would have great success next year. We need to draft a quarterback in the first two rounds and develop him over a period of time. This organization needs stability. Taking a flier on a wildcat quarterback (at this point, he hasn’t proven otherwise) is not the best move to make, especially if it involves giving up draft picks, which it almost surely will.

"I feel great ... I feel like 310 pounds of twisted steel and sex appeal."
-Jason Smith

by kevinramsfan on Feb 2, 2010 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

we wont be contending for the playoffs next year period

and im just saying i think vick would be a perfect stop-gap qb….that being said i dont think we should give up any draft picks for him, im just assuming the eagles will cut him in which case we would get the first opportunity to sign him….im patient enough to wait til 2011 to draft Case Keenum, Ryan Mallet, or Jake Locker

by Danteslion on Feb 2, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

I’m not holding my breath for next year either. That being said, I think you’re right. The 2011 class might have a better crop of quarterbacks than this year.

"I feel great ... I feel like 310 pounds of twisted steel and sex appeal."
-Jason Smith

by kevinramsfan on Feb 2, 2010 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Rec'd

Or at least it would be if SB Nation developed rec for mobile.

by BruinHalo on Feb 2, 2010 3:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Maybe they'll give us Vick for a 7th rounder

Because we let them have Mallett (RB from CFL or AFL or some other non-NFL league)

by Carneros on Feb 2, 2010 10:27 PM CST up reply actions  

The Martz hire is a yawner.

First, Jerry Angelo told Lovie he wouldn’t even interview Martz (Lovie wanted him badly). But after everything else fell through (getting turned down by everyone else and resorting to interviewing QB coaches the past week and a half), the Bears gave in and hired Martz because they’d pretty much cut off their nose to spite their face.

Btw, you should hear them spin it like they just got the guy at the top of their list. It’s humorous.

Anyway, with that O-line in Chicago, coupled with the lack of quality recievers and virtually no running game. This is going to fail. Good luck getting Devin Hester past page one of the Martz playbook.

So, with a desperate need to upgrade the O-line and recievers and absolutely no way to do so with all the RFAs because of the un-capped year, there’s no way they can improve the offense.

With that being said, the Bears will struggle and Lovie (and Angelo) will finally get fired (which should have happened this year when they fired all of his coordinators) and Martz will once again be looking for a job.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Feb 2, 2010 9:18 AM CST reply actions  

I don't like the Bears---But

I believe your assessment to be true. The Martz system is terrific IF all, and only if all the other pieces are in place-(ala-GSOT), otherwise—the Bears are going to be one of the lowest scoring teams in the NFL and a lot of heads are going to roll. Without top notch talent, Martz is an offense killer.

by Knoxfan on Feb 2, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Really?

So you’d be in favor of 5 blockers with empty backfields and 7 step drops behind our current O-line?

I guess you like to see QBs get murdered.

Btw, when did I ever say that Shurmur was better than Martz? I think Knoxfan hit the nail on the head. Martz is very good if he has the right parts all together. But he’s stubborn and has proven to be un-able and un-willing to adjust. That doesn’t mean I prefer Shurmur (I’d like you to point out where I said i did), it just means that the organization in Chicago is a complete mess right now and Martz is probably going to do more harm to their franchise QB than to help him.

FYI, there’s a reason why he was hired by Chicago, 1) Martz wasn’t hired by anyone last year and 2) the Bears couldn’t find another OC even when they publically said they would not be interviewing Martz. That job is a death sentence. Short of winning the division, Smith’s job is all but over in Chicago. Everyone knows that including the McCaskey’s (Bears ownership) which is why they were offering a salary below market value for both coordinator positions.

The Bears had no one that would except the position except Martz and Martz had no other offers. And the only reason he had an offer with the Bears is because Lovie is trying to save his own ass. Kind of. That is if Lovie even realizes his ass is on a hot seat in the first place and from all comments, it doesn’t seem like he has a worry in the world.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Feb 2, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Accept, not Except

anyway……………good points

Jake Locker in 2011

by JordansDad on Feb 3, 2010 12:22 AM CST up reply actions  

thanks...

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Feb 3, 2010 7:43 AM CST up reply actions  

The Martz offense

only works if you have 5 backs on the field who run 4.4s and you have Kurt Warner at QB (and great pass blocking). Any deviation from that formula and your QB will get killed and you will turn the ball over 5 times a game. Remember when it all started to fall apart and Kurt Warner was dumped. There was a time when Martz had Faulk, Warner, Bruce, and Holt, and we started 0-5.

by gomer7 on Feb 2, 2010 12:26 PM CST reply actions  

Vick Rumor

Why do you continue to perpetuating this ridiculous rumor.Vick is a loser and we don’t need any more dead weight.We have just gotten rid of all the dead weight and to think we need a inaccurate,inept quarterback?Give me a break.

by CGSuddeath on Feb 2, 2010 1:44 PM CST reply actions  

Why is this rumor ridiculous?

I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that this deal is floating out there.

Perhaps what you fond ridiculous is that Vickis even being considered. In that case, the rumor is not ridiculous, the player is.

Nevertheless, I think it is the responsibility of TST to explore these rumors if they really are out there.

As a matter of full disclosure, I find this neither the rumor nor the player involved to be ridiculous.

by BruinHalo on Feb 2, 2010 3:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

What a joke...

Martz has done things to offenses that had no business to do anything. Lets look at his history.
With Stl. he helped Warner, a former bag boy with a laser arm, run the most complex offense in the league.
He then transitioned a back-up QB in Bulger to fill his shoes and take the place of Warner, all the while becoming a Pro-Bowl QB.
Then he went and took the shit job in Detroit, where he had John Kitna running that offense, with one of the worst O-lines I have ever seen. They put up great numbers and at one point I think they were like 6-2, solely because of their offense. That is not very Detroit like.
He then took the position in SF, where he had the great JT O’Sullivan. Now, I grew up with O’Sullivan’s little bro and I watched him since the high school days. He is not much of a NFL QB, other than maybe a back-up. Nonetheless, Martz had JT O’Sullivan throwing all over teams, and the guy was putting up 300 yard games. It was like JT was back in NFL Europe.
There is no doubting the guy is a crazy SOB, with a highly ellaborate offense. He sometimes has questionable play calls….but there is also no doubting that he makes any offense better. I thought Chicago made a good move…although I am curious to see after working with back-ups eager to learn and earn their keep, how he will do with a Prima-Dona like Cutler.

by CaliRamMan on Feb 2, 2010 2:18 PM CST reply actions  

You're memory is a little off.

Game 1: 14 of 20, 195 yds, 0 tds, 1 int, 80.2 rtg
Game 2: 20 of 32, 321 yds, 1 td, 0 int, 106.4 rtg
Game 3: 16 of 23, 189 yds, 2 tds, 0 ints, 123.2 rtg
Game 4: 18 of 36, 257 yds, 1 td, 2 ints, 59.6 rtg
Game 5: 14 of 29, 130 yds, 3 tds, 3 ints, 55.9 rtg
Game 6: 17 of 30, 199 yds, 0 tds, 2 ints, 49.2 rtg
Game 7: 16 of 28, 256 yds, 1 td, 2 ints, 69.9 rtg
Game 8: 13 of 21, 131 yds, 0 tds, 1 int, 59.8 rtg

So, in 8 games (he played in game 10 but only threw 1 pass which was incomplete) he had one 300 game, two 250 games, and five games under 200 (two of which were right at 130 yds).

For the 2008 season, he was 128 of 220 (58.2%) for 1678 yds, 8 tds, 11 ints with a QB rating of 73.6.

If I’m Mike Martz, I’m not putting my work with J.T. O’Sullivan on my resume.

And, since I’m at it, as for Warner. He kinda succeeded without Martz too, so I’m not certain you can give complete credit to Martz. As a matter of fact, Martz wanted to go with Trent Green and only went with Warner when Green shreaded his knee. So, if Green never gets hurt, who knows if the world ever knows who Kurt Warner is.

Now, what I will agree with you about is you’re last sentence. The Martz/Cutler relationship is one to keep an eye on. Cutler is a bitch. To be blunt. And Martz is hard-headed and abrasive. It should be interesting.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Feb 2, 2010 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok I didn't feel like going and getting the stats for 4 different QBs

The point was that all 4 QBs mentioned were not exactly top notch before Martz. I find it funny that you pick the worst one there to find a flaw in my post. So how about this:
In 2006, Martz’s 1st season, the passing game improved considerably, ranking 7th overall behind quarterback Jon Kitna, who had his first 4,000-yard season at age 34.
In 2007 his offense was the reason why the Lions started 6-2, with Kitna reaching 4200 yards. The next year with Martz gone Detroit’s offense, almost identical to the year before, finished at the bottom of the league and finished the season 0-16.
I shouldn’t even have to go into this. The guy may be nuts, but he knows how to get production out of his offense, whether people like it or not.

by CaliRamMan on Feb 2, 2010 9:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Improved? Sure.

Enough? No.

His unwillingness to run the ball always (eventually) bites him in the ass. You’re talking about improvements in parts over short periods of time.

In 2006, that passing attack might have been ranked 7th overall, but the offense was ranked 21st in points and 22nd in yards.

In 2007, you point out that the Lions started 6-2, but they finished the season 1-8.

You want to point out that I’m cherry picking with J.T. O’Sullivan yet you do it to a much greater extent in trying to refute me.

The Chicago Bears didn’t hire a QB coach. They hired an Offensive Coordinator who’s one dimensional and refuses to change anything about how he operates. Sure, the passing attack usually improves under him, but that’s only one part of the equation. Teams always figure out how to get in his way….eventually. When you won’t run the ball, he makes it very easy for the defense….especially when you’re using used up parts like the Lions had and like the Bears offense consists of. There’s no Faulk, Bruce, or Holt on the Bears. Nothing close to it. And Jay Cutler is pretty good, but he’s not even close to the same class as Kurt Warner.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Feb 3, 2010 7:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Guy, you keep missing the point of what I'm saying.

Try to read rather than pick at my post. Its like ripping your post for saying that he refuses to run the ball, yet Faulk had 1,381 yards rushing (5.5 yards-per-carry average) in 99, then 1359 in 2000, then 1382 in 2001, you get the point. In San Fran, Gore put up 1,063 yards in 2008 in only 14 games under Martz’s offense.
The point here is that he made all those offenses better… more effective while he was the play caller. He did it with less than recognizable talent when he took over. You can not say that isn’t true.
Yes Detroit only won 7 games while he was there, but their woes was due to the fact that their terrible defense had injuries all over the place and they just couldn’t stop anyone.
In San Fran he took over an offense that ranked last in almost every category possible. They improved the next year with him as the OC, EVEN though they had crap options at QB.
So like I said, he will make a terrible bears offense better. AND the running back will enjoy him as the OC…read this http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/2025830,CST-SPT-faulk03.article.
Quit being a hater Tackle! Your rebuttals have just as many flaws. Just grab the substance behind the post.

by CaliRamMan on Feb 3, 2010 9:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Look, I was always a Martz supporter and I felt it was completely unfair how he was treated

With that being said, the Bears don’t have those parts you are mentioning. They don’t have a Marshall Faulk/Frank Gore running back. They have a horrible offensive line. They have a QB who relys on his talent (not his head) to make plays.

None of this plays into what Martz needs to have to be a successful OC.

I’ve never been a Martz hater, but I also know what kind of coach he is and exactly what type of personnel the Bears employ. The two don’t match up well at all and with the un-capped year, upgrading that offense to meet the needs of Martz is next to impossible in one offseason with this many restrictions.

Martz doesn’t have 2 or 3 years to make it work. He’s got one. That’s it. Because if they don’t win the division, Lovie is going to get fired.

Plus, in case you missed it, their defense is horrible.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Feb 4, 2010 7:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Forte may not be Faulk or Gore,

but he is pretty good.
The one thing you forget, is that Urlacher comes back next year. He is the QB of that defense. That defense will be fine in his return. I think that the offense will be better overall, although you are right…that O-line is ugly. I am looking forward to see how Cutler reacts to doing things differently. Especially with a subpar group of wideouts. Hopefully Knox and Bennet can get things done, beacuse its not going to be Hester.

by CaliRamMan on Feb 4, 2010 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Urlacher isn't even the best LB on that team anymore.

Lance Briggs is by far better and has been for a couple of seasons. Plus, Urlacher is going to be 32 by the time next year rolls around. He’s still talented but his actual “talent” was exposed once teams discovered he couldn’t shed blocks (and never really could).

And no, I’m sorry, Forte is an average at best running back. He’s not really fast or quick. He’s okay, but he’s pretty much just a guy. Any guy. He’s a dime a dozen type RB.

But, one thing you wrote did stand out to me.

I am looking forward to see how Cutler reacts to doing things differently.

That, right there, is what is going to be the end of Martz. Cutler is too hard-headed to fall in line. I’m predicting his first (maybe first 2 games) to be amazing under Martz, but then the wheels completely fall off and they’re at each others thoats by Week 7.

Hell, Martz was taking shots at Cutler this past season over the way Cutler acted in his press conferences. Well, Cutler ain’t changing and the first time he bristles off Martz will be the beginning of the end of that “relationship”.

And since Cutler has the big contract, it’ll be Martz that loses that battle. Of course, he’ll be gone after one season anyway since there’s practically no way Lovie (or Angelo) retains his job another season.

Btw, how many head coaches can they have on that team.

Lovie Smith – HC
Mike Martz – OC
Mike Tice – Offensive Line Coach
Rod Marinelli – Defensive Line Coach (and could quite possibly be the new DC even though Angelo said a month ago he wouldn’t be…..but he also said he wouldn’t interview Martz, so…….)

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Feb 5, 2010 12:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Can't see the forest for the trees--

It’s the quality players (even latent ones) that made the Martz schemes look good, not the other way round.

by Knoxfan on Feb 2, 2010 3:15 PM CST reply actions  

VICK A TOP 10 Q.B.?

HELL NO! NOT EVEN CLOSE. He might be on the FBI’s top 10 criminal list but not as a Q.B.
I will turn on the RAMS FOREVER AND DISOWN them if they pick up that piece of SH#T!
I live in Northern California and always disliked the 49ers but that could change instantly if the RAMS pick him up. There is no upside to him unless the new owners need tips on illegal gambling and dog fighting! STAY AWAY FROM VICK! HE’S BAD NEWS!

by California Mobile CPR on Feb 2, 2010 5:43 PM CST reply actions  

Top 10 Criminal list?

I don’t get this. He’s one of the most vilified people in the league. He’s not the greatest QB (by far) but seriously people.

He went to jail, served his time, and came out. He then served an NFL suspension and makes large contributions to charity because Goodell owns his testicles.

Give it a rest. He served his time.

The House of Spears reigns supreme

by Eric Nagel on Feb 2, 2010 7:10 PM CST up reply actions  

DON'T YOU KNOW?!?!?

VICK CAUSED 9/11 AND EATS BABIES!!!!!!! HE HAS KILLED MORE PEOPLE THAN STALIN AND RAPES MONKEYS!!!!!!! IF YIU EVEN MENTION THAT HE WILL JOIN THE RAMS I AM MOVING TO THE MOON!!!!!!

by BruinHalo on Feb 2, 2010 8:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Lmao

that’s hilarious

R.I.P Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan

by keeperskillz24 on Feb 2, 2010 9:35 PM CST up reply actions  

CPR-

you will be missed. Au revoir.

by mooseknuckles41 on Feb 2, 2010 10:52 PM CST up reply actions  

There's no way you're going to "instantly" be a 49ers fan

If you ever were a real Rams fan. I’m in the same situation. NorCal. Buy tickets to see the Raiders play because I refuse to convert from Rams to 49ers.

But to each his own…sayonara…

by CoachConnors on Feb 3, 2010 11:44 AM CST up reply actions  

someone get the defibrillator for CPR

"SJAX" - The extra strength cleaner that fights off that Stubborn, Stingy Defense

by moy on Feb 3, 2010 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

If Vick says he is a QB he must be.

Why doesn’t Kyle Boller say that so we can have a top 10 QB.
Pretty cocky for a guy who completed less than 50% of his passes last year and threw for a whopping 86 yards. And his running game was extraordinary too. 95 yards. You must be a top 10 player in the NFL if you can accumulate a grand total of 181 yards in 12 games. Oh and 77 of those yards came on two plays. That being said, I’d still be okay with him for a year or two because at least he’d put fans in the seats (even if they are protesters from PETA), adds some excitement, and buys us some time for grooming. But nothing above a 5th rounder for him. And I probably wouldn’t give up our first 5th rounder. I’d just give the Eagles theirs back. Making it Vick and Gibson for Witherspoon.

by Carneros on Feb 2, 2010 10:36 PM CST reply actions  

Vick as a Top 10 QB?

haha! That was a great laugh. We need to draft a QB in this year’s Draft (I’m throwing my support behind Jimmy Clausen.) Vick hasn’t been a top tier QB ever – why does he think he is now??

by Starkey on Feb 3, 2010 7:11 AM CST reply actions  

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