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Oklahoma's McCoy a better fit for the Rams?

Here's something draft related to chew on this afternoon, especially for you Suh fans out there. Coinciding with Senior Bowl festivities last week, NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock updated his prospect rankings for the top five players at each position, shaking up conventional wisdom in the process.  

The big news is that Mayock put Oklahoma's Gerald McCoy above Nebraska's Ndamukong Suh in his defensive tackle ratings. People have been taking it for granted that Suh represents a slam dunk for the best overall talent in the draft. And with good reason. However, McCoy has been getting lots of reconsideration from the chattering classes, and I suspect Mayock is only the first and most prominent member of the prospect talkers to put McCoy on top. At the very least, it's good conversation fodder.

And why does this matter for the St. Louis Rams? Well, it's been widely assumed that the Rams would pick Suh with their first overall pick in this year's draft, the lone spoil of a 1-15 season, except for a few thinking they'll grab a franchise quarterback. It stands to reason that McCoy would be high on the Rams, or anyone's, draft board. I can't help but wonder if the Rams might not even prefer McCoy over Suh since Spagnuolo likes to mix up his defensive line with players who can play DE and DT, something McCoy should be able to do with ease. 

On his quarterback list, Mayock has another Oklahoma player on top, Sam Bradford. Take the injury out of the equation and that's a spot on analysis. Our very own 3k had Bradford going first overall to the Rams in his most recent mock draft. For my money, I still think Bradford will put to rest most of the questions about his injured shoulder this spring; that might have been one of the most carefully managed injuries in sports history. 

Lots to think about and the Combine next month will muddy the waters even further. April can't get here soon enough.

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yea bradford will put to rest his injured shoulder

but i would be more interested in if learned to fall yet…because even with it healed he will still reinjure it

Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat

by DESTROYER on Feb 1, 2010 2:10 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

interesting discussion

I think this is an interesting discussion… but in the past the Rams have said that their preference at DT is to get a space eater.
McCoy is less of a space eater than Suh, however, both are more of the penetrating DT sort. Neither are Terrance Cody, however.

I’d prefer Suh over McCoy simply because of the greater size/strength with Suh will provide in the center of the defensive line.

Future Redbirds! www.futureredbirds.net
Rams Gab! www.ramsgab.com

by jroman on Feb 1, 2010 2:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

if it's just a space eater, get a guy in a later round

really and truly, i’ll bet that’s what they do anyway.

Turf Show Times

by VanRam on Feb 1, 2010 4:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah that's it!!!

Tha Rams take Suh at #1. You know while their at it, why not trade back up with Detroit at #2 and grab McCoy, then trade back up with the Bucs at #3 and grab Berry, too!!!

You know I’m being sacastic, but the Rams FO has so much $$ already tied into their defense. It seems doing it again and not making the effort in Offense, they’ll never get back to a playoff caliber team.

Yes I am a Bucs fan, but not withstanding, I would be suprised if the Bucs FO passes on both Suh and McCoy even if their there and pick Berry or someone (who would not fill a primary need.) But that too is sarcastic and probably unfair since the Bucs FO and coaching is new and unproven. But I will say the Ram’s FO is definitely in need of improvement from the recent past. Good Luck and I mean it because I did like to watch your old exciting teams.

by buceye on Feb 1, 2010 2:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Nice post

I love the draft because of this. 4 months before it happens, everyone is so sure of who the best players are. Then months of analysis and over-analysis later everyone is confused and rooting for new people. To me, it is just part of what makes it all fun. I have no idea if McCoy or Suh is better, but I like the fact that people aren’t scared to at least ask the question.

Also, on a smaller scale (later rounds) I think that Devany has proven in the last few drafts that he is not scared to go with the guy he wants. In 2008, everyone knew the Rams would go WR in round #2….I just don’t think anyone knew it would be Donnie Avery. And in 2009, I think most fans were thrilled that Malaluga was there for us to pick in round #2, and Devany went Laurainitis. I just get the impression that Devany isn’t scared to take who he wants at a particular position.

by Hetfield72 on Feb 1, 2010 2:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

If anything Suh's incredible footwork would make him apt to play DE if need be...

…as for betting on Bradford performing well, that’s fine and dandy, but Suh’s going to be at the combine and is going to have his pro day workouts as well as private workouts with the Rams. Something tells me he’s going to further blow us away at these events. The bottom line is, Bradford is the one that has to make up big ground, and Sub could easily push his stock up even more at these same workouts. I don’t like Sam’s chances.

"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."

"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."

-Kobe Bryant

A mantra for all athletes.

by TrojanRam on Feb 1, 2010 3:31 PM CST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

If we only knew what Devaney and Spags were thinking right now.

Wouldn’t you love to be a fly on the wall one day while they were discussing the draft to hear what is really going on? They could take either a DT or a QB, and we have no idea which way they are leaning. It’s maddening.

by andyrose on Feb 1, 2010 3:39 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

McCoy is a much better pass rusher than Suh

right now. I’m not going to try and project their skill set in a few years, thats impossible. I’m just saying, right now, at this very moment G. McCoy is clearly the better pass rusher, especially since he has moves that he uses.

Keep in mind that the NFC West is a pass-first division (sounds weird doesn’t it). All 3 teams are better at passing than they are at running (you can argue that Mike Singletary is a run first smash mouth kind of guy, but the 49ers had their best games when Alex Smith was throwing all over the field to V. Davis)

by jb22 on Feb 1, 2010 4:04 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Who says that McCoy is a better pass rusher than Suh????

If McCoy had better technique and moves, he would have more sacks than Suh, period. They played basically the same competition in the same conference. Suh had more sacks last year and this year. I personally do not buy the so-called pundit spin that McCoy is better than Suh at rushing the passer. If it was, his stats would show it and they don’t!!

by Mean Machine II on Feb 1, 2010 5:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

The idea that Mccoy is a better pass rusher than Suh is revionist History. Bull rushing IS a technique and a good one.

by gomer7 on Feb 2, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How can you say that?

How can you say the NFC West is a past irat division? We may have been but we ain’t no more. The best QB in the division right now is Matt Hasselbeck. Yeah, him. Next is Bulger. Yeah, he is second best and didn’t even play half of last season. Third is one of the 3 guys from San Fran and then it’s Leinhart. So we don’t need no pass rusher.

On this team, we are all united in a common goal: to keep my job.
-- Lou Holtz

by RamsMan83 on Feb 2, 2010 8:11 AM CST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea where Seattle is headed.

It’s not like Pete Carroll is about to re-invent himself into a run-first and heavy coach. Plus, they kinda need to rebuild that roster (granted having 3? picks in the first round definitely helps). Anyway, Arizona has struggled to find a running game the past couple of years, and besides wouldn’t you be insane to ignore those receivers you have? I doubt they do and will continue to be a pass-oriented team.

San Francisco tried to be a running team, but since the only QB they had that can play at a competent NFL level really can only be somewhat successful in a spread-type offense, they got away from the run. That takes Frank Gore almost completely out of their offense.

In all reality, the Rams are the only team in the NFC West who are building a run-oriented team. It’s obvious what they want to do, and that’s run the ball and play defense. Personally, I think that’s a recipe for success in the West. Now, I’m not making any preditions about winning the division because the Rams are still a ways away from having a completed roster, but they are (IMO) closer to building a stout running attack and a shut down defense than any other team in the division. I’d like to see them develop a good compliment to Jackson in the backfield soon, though. He needs some of the load taken off his shoulders.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Feb 2, 2010 9:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thank you TB

yeah the other 3 teams in our division may not have the best passing attacks, but they will still look to throw the ball first, hence pass-first.

by jb22 on Feb 2, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm thinking the 49ers try to work Alex Smith under center a lot more

I’m betting they get him lots of work under center and challenge him to adapt his game. Frank Gore is their best weapon other than Vernon Davis and he wasn’t the same in the spread offense. Gore is a home run hitter than must be utelized, and Alex Smith needs to get with that program, rahter than Gore needing to learn to run out of the spread.

by CoachConnors on Feb 2, 2010 7:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

the big problem is Smith has been in the league for 4 seasons already. One would think if he were going to be able to learn to play under center, it would have happened by now.

But, I am sure, as you suggest, there will be a focus on getting him more reps under center because they simply won’t be successful if he can’t do it.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Feb 3, 2010 7:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I also think the 49ers are looking for replacements for Smith

I said this a while back, maybe midseason-ish, and while some see the 49ers use of Alex Smith as a switch in philosophy, I see it as them just trying to get through the season. Now that that’s done, I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see them unload Alex Smith

by CoachConnors on Feb 3, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, then they're in the exact same position as we are

good luck finding a competent replacement in this uncapped off season.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Feb 3, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Hetfield hit the nail on the head with his comment

right here.

Especially when he said…

over-analysis

With this much time, pundits are going to have to mix things up. They can’t keep writing the same thing over and over until late April so someone was bound to be the first to put McCoy first over Suh. This will cause a little following and people will talk about it, then the Combine will happen at the end of this month and Suh will look awesome again, so he’ll move back up top. Then you’ve got another 2 months and McCoy will start to emerge again until we finally have the draft and this discussion starts all over again.

It was bound to happen and whoever drafts either of these guys probably won’t be disappointed.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Feb 1, 2010 4:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

So...

Dart board? :^)

by CoachConnors on Feb 1, 2010 5:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Seems like it's Long vs. Dorsey all over again

but will Devaney play Haslett or Linehan?

The House of Spears reigns supreme

by ram_rod on Feb 1, 2010 8:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I heard someone else say it a month ago

I can’t remember who it was but I was watching something on NFL network where someone said McCoy was the better DT. This was like a month ago. I wish I could remember who it was, but it was not Mayock. Now that Mayock comes out after watching Suh in senior bowl practices and game and says the same thing, it really makes me worry about whether Suh is the right guy.

by CoachConnors on Feb 1, 2010 4:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

i am worried too

people always describe Suh as a beast and just athletically dominating everyone in college

well as of now, Suh is about 20 pounds lighter than your average 4-3 DT
i am sure he can put on weight, and yes i know weight isn’t everything, but just keep in mind that Suh will never have the absurd physical advantage in the NFL that he had in college

by jb22 on Feb 1, 2010 4:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

“…just keep in mind that Suh will never have the absurd physical advantage in the NFL that he had in college”

Exactly what absurd physical advantage did Suh have in college? Is he really 29 and already played 7 years in the NFL? Is he an alien? On steroids all his life? Where did he get this “absurd advantage?” Where do you think the NFL gets O-linemen? Somewhere besides college? Are you telling me the Big 12 doesn’t have any potential NFLers on their O-lines? Talk sense man. Have you ever watched Suh play? I’ve watched him for two years; he does nothing but dominate. Don’t expect that to change…

by Jeff Smith on Feb 24, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

?

I know for sure he said he was at the Senior Bowl when he said he’s seen them both and thinks McCoy is the better player, and I think his ratings were only recently changed

Did I just assume he was watching Suh there when he said it? Hm, I guess its possible.

by CoachConnors on Feb 1, 2010 6:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No seriously.

You say Mayock said “he’s seen them both”. Why does that have to mean he saw them both at the Senior Bowl ?

Suh wasn’t at the Senior Bowl. Or the practices. Period.

From the Omaha World Herald, Jan 20th:
“The family of Ndamukong Suh confirms that the former Nebraska defensive tackle isn’t going to the Senior Bowl, something Suh first told Mel Kiper Jr. during his visit to the ESPN studios.
“Ngum Suh said her brother instead will immerse himself in training and preparation for the NFL Combine in five weeks.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20100120/BIGRED03/100129938

Maybe just me but I like a guy who shows up for games vs a guy who shows up for All-Star practices.

by Bob_00 on Feb 2, 2010 10:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"Why does that have to mean he saw them both at the Senior Bowl?"

Oh, it doesn’t. It’s just what I was thinking he meant.

by CoachConnors on Feb 3, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Colt McCoy a RAM?

NO leave the injury in it. He’s already damaged and if the RAMS take him he will be brutalized, mistreated, beatup and basically crippled. It’s a fact the RAMS front line can’t protect anyone, so dont get someone who is already hurt banged up to the point where he wont be able to play again.
REMEMBER HUMPTY DUMPTY, The QB isnt on a wall, but behind humans who cant stop a rush.

by California Mobile CPR on Feb 1, 2010 5:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

For 3k, dbcouver, and other draftophiles..

Is it understood that this draft will be decidedly deeper than previous years, and the 2011 draft will be weaker because of the impending/possible implementation of the rookie salary scale?

My question: what kind of leverage will 2011 draft pics have in the way of leveraging trades? Are these picks devalued because of the number of juniors coming out in 2010? Or is Jake Locker important enough to hang on to a first round selection?

by mooseknuckles41 on Feb 1, 2010 11:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I would say yes on deep, but "not necessarily weak" in 2011

I would say the difference is how many positions offer solid prospects in this draft. You’ve got 3rd round talent at multiple positions that ordinarily isn’t 3rd round talent in this draft. While I expect a return to the norm in 2011, you have some serious superstars in the making. If the trend continues, in terms of the volume of available underclassmen, 2011 will have plenty of great talent available (with a much better QB class).

You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.

by 3k on Feb 2, 2010 4:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bradford Vs Clausen

while on the toilet today, I was thinking about 3k’s mock draft and how he projected us to go with Bradford. Why does he project a spread offense QB who played primarily out of the shotgun to us? wouldnt Clausen make more sense? he played in a West Coast type offense, which is what we use………..anyway.

As far as G. McCoy vs Suh………all I have to say is remember almost 1 year ago today, most people had Andre Smith going first or second overall…………then came the collapse and running with no shirt on………..what im trying to say is anything can happen between now and April

Jake Locker in 2011

by JordansDad on Feb 2, 2010 1:04 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Andre Smith running with no shirt scarred me for life

It was traumatizing.

You didn’t address this to me but I wanted to chime in anyway. Feel free to ignore me.

I’ve heard there are more players opting for the draft this year because of the labor issue, but I believe its a bigger increase of underclassmen that haven’t dramatically deepened the upper tiers of talent. What I mean is I think most of those really good juniors in the top 3 or 4 rounds probably would’ve come out anyway, no matter the labor situation. Maybe I’m wrong but thats the perception I got from reading around.

Clausen played well in a system much like the pro’s. His head coach at Notre Dame was Charlie Weis who used to be OC for the Patriots and was widely considered to one of the best in the business in that job. After bombing at ND, Weis is no longer thought of as an offensive genuis but I bet he prepared that Clausen kid for the NFL better than any other college QB in this class.

by CoachConnors on Feb 2, 2010 2:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just because Clausen has the upper hand in experience doesn't make him better in the long run

Sure, Clausen would have a jump on Bradford in terms of experience in that department, but the primary attributes you look for in a QB (vision, accuracy, decision making and arm strength, lastly) were abundant in Bradford’s game until he got hurt. I don’t see a reason why, given a period of tutelage, Bradford can’t be a very, very productive QB in any system.

You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.

by 3k on Feb 2, 2010 4:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

True. But

Theres more to the story and like you said about Suh and McCoy, probably both teams they go to will happy. I dont know that there’s any sure way to know who will be the better long term guy but I am starting to think Clausen is the guy if they can’t go without drafting a QB this time around.

by CoachConnors on Feb 2, 2010 10:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And it doesn't make him worse in the long run either...I think it's a net positive.

I don’t know if any one thing can make someone definitely better in the long run, its such a crap shoot, but this aspect of Clausen has to beconsidered a net positive relative to other QB’s.

by CoachConnors on Feb 2, 2010 11:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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