Should the Rams be taking more risks?
I highly recommend that you read this fanpost from Everett 11. It echoes a point made in this piece over at SBN St. Louis taking the St. Louis Rams front office to task for being "wimps" when it comes to their decision not to swing a deal for WR Vincent Jackson...or any other highly valued wide receiver.
Everett 11 breaks down the success, or lack thereof, of receivers drafted in the first round over the last decade. Though some household names and fantasy GMs recognize some of the players, the majority of them have become synonymous with disappointment. Risk. Like any draft pick, especially the ones that get big contracts, there is ample risk involved. Fans and pundits alike said the same thing about drafting Sam Bradford with the first overall pick.
Risk versus reward, after the jump.
The Chargers' asking price for Jackson is what reportedly torpedoed the deal for the Rams and the other teams involved. It's not entirely clear what that price was, but we do know it involved a second round pick in next year's draft. Whether or not A.J. Smith required another second round pick or a third round pick is unclear. Either way, it was deemed too much. The point both Everett 11 and Aaron Hooks are making is that the asking price really wasn't beyond reasonable given that Jackson is a 27-year old established player at one of the most difficult positions to draft and develop.
Here's Hooks:
I've been pretty clear on where I stand with Vincent Jackson. He's a proven NFL commodity, eager to prove his worth again, and the ideal prototype for today's NFL. His combination of size and speed makes him valuable. WR is one of the hardest positions to draft successfully in the NFL (ask Matt Millen) and if you're going to use a second round pick to get a receiver anyway, why not Jackson?
Because he might cause some controversy? Because he might get suspended again?
Right. It's a higher risk. And the Rams aren't comfortable taking any sort of risk with their team. So how exactly do you overcome the hole already dug and leap ahead of the teams entrenched in success?
It's nothing that hasn't been discussed here before, but it's a much different context now with Mark Clayton out, the NFC West up for grabs and a Rams team still trying to rebuild a fan base that buys tickets.
I wouldn't entirely agree that the front office is risk averse, drafting Bradford proves that. And, despite their insistence otherwise, I can't believe that ownership uncertainty and ownership of the first overall pick didn't limit the front office. But winning teams make money.
Back when the Jackson trade talk was red hot, it wasn't as pressing for the Rams. They were doing well with the receivers they had on staff. The draft picks seemed particularly costly given the kinds of players the Rams have drafted in the second round over the last two years, not to mention the third round. It made the cost seem pretty steep at the time.
Times are different now.
I don't think this is an overreaction to an ugly loss against the Lions. The Rams are competing now, and even though they're not strong in every aspect of their roster, an addition like Jackson would dramatically change the offense, for the better.
No, it wouldn't make them a Super Bowl contender this year, but it would make them a legitimate threat for the division crown. More importantly, it would make them a competitive team again, a winning team. Winning teams sell tickets. Tickets sales translate to more revenue, bigger TV ratings. It snowballs, solidifying the Rams' connection with their fanbase, upping the income and giving the front office some financial flexibility that they haven't had for a while.
Giving up draft picks for a player just coming off a suspension is risky. Letting a team languish is just as risky.
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Agreed.
With our two top WRs out, they have to think about taking the risk. V-Jax and Bradford would be a crazy good duo. At this point, what is there to lose? We have rookie WRs, Gibson, Amendola, and unproven assets in our TE pool. They need to make some kind of risk.
To be, or not to be, — that is the question: — Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer — The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, — Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, — And by opposing end them?
Am I missing something?
Kroenke told Devaney to stay away from VJax. What is a GM supposed to do when the owner says no?
I think
you’re missing something. That was never reported. It was reported that the Rams had interest but balked at the asking price – some say 2 second rounders, some a second and a third.
I’m glad we didn’t do the deal. It would also cost approx $10 million a year to sign him (according to reports). If he has a great year, maybe he tries to hold out again. Or, maybe he gets suspended for a year. Build your team through the draft. Add pieces when you’re a contender, but hoard your picks. That’s my opinion.
from ESPN's John Clayton
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/17617/why-vincent-jackson-deal-didnt-happen
here is the part pertaining to the Rams:
The Edwards DUI arrest also had an impact on the trade discussions. According to the source, the Rams and Seahawks — under orders from their owners — pulled out of the discussions after the Jets receiver’s arrest became public.
and here is another link:
http://www.ramsondemand.com/blog/2010/09/silent-stan-speaks/
“Rams and GM Billy Devaney were in hot pursuit of a coveted Number 1 wide receiver and sorely needed a playmaker when Silent Stan decided to speak up. He reportedly told Billy Devaney to cease inquiring about controversial star San Diego wide receiver Vincent Jackson. His reason? Apparently Stan felt that no matter how big the need for a go-to target for the $80 million wunderkind QB, it was not worth compromising the core values the team had sought to build their roster around. "
Thank you
I was the one missing info. I believe Coats or Thomas denied this recently in a chat, though.
Here is a link that I think will also be usefull in this discussion
Which sort of torpedoes my arguement in Everett’s thread and perhaps he is right that every receiver is “available” and the risk might not be that bad.
It also does make me think of Michael Strahans segment on T.V. last sunday where he criticized GMs for being gunshy about provocative high risk trades that make their teams better. The mantra was MAKE THEEEE TRADE!!!
I still say though that giving away a 1 and 2 picks…doesnt necessarily mean you are giving away WR picks. You could be giving away a JL pick or Suh or many other positions that the rams could actually use to upgrade the team in a major way.
I just still think we are 1 year to soon for this kind of stuff….
+1 @ "I just still think we are 1 year to soon for this kind of stuff…."
Totally agree. We’re still in a phase where a second rounder could be a core of our team. Our FO is building a good track record mining talent that suits our style. Next year, when the Saffolds and Animal Jrs and heck even Fletchers are firmly in place, I think we’d be in better position to let draft picks go.
Consider this: when Brandon Marshall was on the trading block we had a ton of fan posts pleading for us to do whatever it took to get him. Two second round picks? That would have meant no Saffold and gool ‘ol Barron protecting Bradford’s weakside. How would we feel if, on third and long, Bradford rolls out…throws deep to Marshall…connects! And………………“Holding. Offense. #70. 10 yard penalty, repeat third down.”
Hellllllllllllllllllllll no.
Stephen Jackson - Pulls a Kobe Bryant?
Has anyone given any thought that Stephen Jackson may pull a Kobe Bryant? In the summer of 2007-08, Kobe Bryant sought a trade from the Lakers due to the lack of talent that Lakers GM, Mitch Kupchak, had brought on board to the team. After Mitch made many promises, Kobe re-signed an extension and stayed with the Lakers. Mitch brought in the talent including Trevor Ariza and Pau Gasol.
Stephen Jackson may feel the same resentment if the Rams continue to struggle and Devaney/Kroenke just sits with this team. Jax is in his prime and I’m sure he’d like to win. Looking at his face and the frustration of last week’s game, this is a definite possibility.
Devaney/Kroenke, please give Jax some help.
Funny you mentioned this
Although I donno if he’d do that, I did feel the same way when I looked at his face Sunday.. Like f this here we go again
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
by VTramsFan on Oct 14, 2010 10:44 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If Danarii does well
Devaney will look like a genius once again
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
by VTramsFan on Oct 14, 2010 10:41 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
He'll be a free agent next year and only cost us money.
Let’s just wait.
I can take a beating ... I'm a Rams fan.
exactly
CBA not in place is the only reason he is stuck which should mean he is FA next year.
The only thing comparable to a Rams win is a 49er loss!
by DevsLaRams on Oct 14, 2010 11:06 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, Absolutely
It seems like everyone around here forgot the state of the Rams 2 weeks ago. Before we upset Washington, Anyone around here would have been happy to win just 5 games. Now that we have gone 2-1 since then, it seems like everyone has lost track of reality. Not that that is a bad thing, but if I got on this board before the season and told you all that the Rams had a chance to Win the division and would have a better record than San Fran, Minnesota, and Dallas you would have laughed at me and referred me to a psychiatrist.
This team is not quite a playoff caliber team yet and that is ABSOLUTELY FINE!!!! I say, while we are finishing our “rebuilding” process (as much as I hate the term), lets take some chances. If we lose thats fine. Its not like we haven’t all been there before. The Rams are not a good enough team yet where they are going to beat top teams like San Diego with out taking chances. As long as our young guys get better and develop, this season was a success.
That smells of perspective
We don’t allow perspective here. Only reaction. We are fine. We will win some more games and continue to improve. The Clayton trade was genius, and Denario could very well be Vincent Jackson which would make trading for him redundant. It seems risky enough to put your money on a rookie qb and Denario for the rest of this year. A risk I am ok with.
If you love something, set it free. If it doesn't come back, find it and kill it.
I agree
This is a rebuilding year and I think Sjax’s reaction was more like ’ It’s just not our day’ as oppossed to what being said here. He knows that the turn around here will take longer because of new ownership.
I really think the 1 year turnarounds like in Atlanta were because of stable ownership and GM’s making the right decisions with players. We have that now and next year will be our make or break.
I also said earlier that 5 wins would be a successful year and posted that given the mess in the NFC west, our chances are still good. A reciever or two we have now just needs a breakout and it will OK
is it worth it?
trading a 2nd round pick and a conditional pick (probably 3rd round) for a quick fix WR who will play in like 6- 7 games this year and who is on the verge of being suspended for a full season – also he will costs quite a bit of dough so he will be expensive….
for what? likely 7-8 wins and a very good chance they miss the playoffs – even if they make it we all know they lose in 1st round – i’d rather be a force in the playoffs next year with a legit good team than a team that barely squeaks by
What were you saying about no one reading my terrible posts? Haha! Van is a fan. So, anyway about your comment…. How are we going to become a contender next year with another project receiver? 2-3 years as most say on this site. Clayton isn’t signed for next year, Avery has been terrible and on top of that he will be on a surgically repaired knee as if he didn’t have enough injury concern and we know how bad Gibson and Robinson are already. How does it change our forecast if we have a very good WR on the roster for the rest of this year and for 3-4 more? Is it going to make us better this year and for 3-4 more years or is the guy just going to just stop producing after this season? No logic my boy. Confidence is everything for a young QB and when Clayton went down so did our passing game. The last thing we need is for Bradford to develop a case of Bulger syndrome. It’s no coincidence that Clayton took over our #1 spot immediately with less than one week’s notice. We need a good veteran now!
Ignorance is bliss and way too many people are happy.
Trading for Jackson makes sense because
Because it’s the only way I can see us filling two desperate need positions WR and DE. If we use our 1st rounder on Julio Jones or A. J. Green all of the impact DE’s will be gone by our second pick. Wouldn’t you rather have Adrian Clayborn or Robert Quinn and Vincent Jackson rather than the first scenario? Jackson is certainly a risk but in my opinion less of a risk than a first round wide receiver. He wants a lot of money but so do first round draft choices(look at Jason Smiths outlandish contract). Gordo stated today that Jackson’s next suspension would be four games not an entire season – not sure he is correct.
Here are all the wide recievers who have been drafted in the second round the past six years:
2010 Second Round: Arrelious Benn, Golden Tate
2009 Second round: Brian Robiskie, Mohamed Massoquoi
2008 Second Round: Donnie Avery, Devin Thomas, Jordy Nelson, James Hardy, Eddie Royal, Jerome Simpson, Desean Jackson, Malcolm Kelly, Limas Sweed, Dexter Jackson
2007 Second Round: Sidney Rice, Dwayne Jarrett, Steve Smith (Giants)
2006 Second round: Chad Jackson, Sinorice Moss, Greg Jennings
2005 Second round: Reggie Brown, Mark Bradley, Roscoe Parrish, Terrence Murphy, Vincent Jackson
25 wide receivers and only about seven of them have panned out into solid players. Lot of wasted second rounders on players who some teams thought would at least contribute to the cause. The whole draft process in my opinion is a crapshoot. If we have a chance to bring in a proven All Pro Caliber player in exchange for someone else to roll the dice, my question is “WHY NOT?”
Is it just me, or does Sam Bradford look like he can be one of the Jonas Brothers?
Unlike many of you ...
… I want the Rams to be competitive each and every year and win a SuperBowl here and there.
I do NOT want us to mortgage our foundation (future) for a shot at winning a terrible division when we are just going to get smoked in the playoffs anyway.
Wake up people. Pull your heads out.
I can take a beating ... I'm a Rams fan.
So if we got a Vincent Jackson or a Colston via trade, would they only be good for just the rest of this year? Or would they continue to be good for another 5 years? Great teams in the post salary cap era are not built in the draft. They draft well and fill multiple holes via free agency (Patriots team of the 00’s). If we did win the division this year, that does wonders for our teams confidence and most importantly Sam’s confidence. It’s a win win. We give up a second for a great WR and don’t get stuck with an Avery or a Dwayne Jarret in the draft. the last thing we need is another project WR!!!!
Ignorance is bliss and way too many people are happy.

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