Not Suh fast; The Rams QB situation and the draft
by Ryan Van Bibber on Jan 8, 2010 10:18 AM CST
in 2010 NFL Draft
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PrintLook around the web and you'll be hard pressed to find a draftnik or pundit who hasn't already linked the St. Louis Rams to Nebraska DT Ndamukong Suh. And for good reason, conventional wisdom rightly says Suh's one of the most talented players at this positions to come along in years. However, assumptions are a funny thing when it comes to the NFL Draft, so don't be too quick to jump to any conclusions about what the Rams will do with their first overall pick.
Suh to the Rams would be an easier leap if the Rams didn't have one huge glaring need at the game's most premium position: quarterback. Word that Marc Bulger was considering retirement after this season first surfaced here on Turf Show Times, via our own Tackle Box. Talk of Bulger's possible retirement gained more steam today with the PD reporting the same thing. Of course, Bulger's retirement doesn't really matter all that much; it was unlikely that GM Billy Devaney would have brought him back for 2010 under Bulger's current contract.
The free agent route might be the most appealing to some, but the free agent QB class is a little thin this year. One of the more intriguing names on that list, Washington's Jason Campbell, will probably be a restricted free agent rather than an unrestricted free agent thanks to the likelihood of an uncapped year. That makes it cheap for Washington to retain his services, and new coach Mike Shanahan doesn't sound like he's completely ready to move on from Campbell just yet. Besides, keeping Campbell on a RFA contract would give them a really cheap placeholder should they draft a QB.
And so we come to the draft, where assumptions go to die a humiliating, painful death. Though conventional wisdom has made up its mind already, the Rams front office will have to consider very serious drafting a QB. Talk of this scenario - the Rams taking a QB with their first overall pick - has officially started to percolate, with the first serious pundit intimations coming from Walter Football, where they predict the Rams making Notre Dame QB Jimmy Clausen the first overall pick and the cornerstone of the franchise.
I think very highly of that site, so I tend to listen to what they have to say when it comes to the draft. They had Jason Smith going to the Rams immediately after the Combine last year...changing it to Eugene Monroe for a week before the draft. Listen to their rationale for the Clausen pick:
Unless the Rams acquire Jason Campbell or someone else via free agency, there's no way they can pass up on a franchise quarterback. New regimes mean new quarterbacks. Last year Steve Spagnuolo and Billy Devaney flirted with the possibility of taking Mark Sanchez, but ultimately couldn't because of Mark Bulger's contract. However, this season they can get rid of Bulger and finally obtain "their guy."
Let's go back to the free agency possibility for a moment. With the cap gone and a much more restrictive set of free agency rules the pool of candidates will be limited to much older players or guys teams just don't want. Unless you're sold on the idea of Chad Pennington or Jake Delomme in St. Louis for a year or two, free agency is not an attractive route for a franchise whose offense is coming off a historically bad season. A player like that could be a decent stop gap, maybe, if the Rams were to take a QB later in the draft or decide to carry on with the Keith Null project.
Why Clausen? He's not being regarded by many as the top QB in the draft. Clausen, who just finished his junior season before declaring for the draft, threw 28 TDs and 4 INTs. Statistically, Clausen had perhaps the best season of any college junior QB, better even than Peyton Manning's 1996 season at Tennessee. That's not to say the guy IS Manning, but his record is hard to ignore considering the level he played. Other factors to consider include the fact that Clausen plays in a pro-style offense, a West Coast offense to be specific, and that he put up those kind of numbers with limited talent surrounding him. He also did all that while playing through an injury, turf toe. His toe ligaments were repaired successfully this week, and he'll throw for teams in early April in private workouts. Missing the Combine won't help his stock among the pundits, but hours of tape and private meetings and workouts will go a long way toward satisfying NFL scouts and general managers.The turf toe concerns me a little bit since the Rams play on such terrible turf.
There is of course one other factor to consider in the discussion of drafting a QB first overall: history. Rams GM Billy Devaney, as a long-time personnel guy in the NFL, has only been part of a front office that drafted a first round QB once: Ryan Leaf with the Chargers in 1998. The last time the Rams had a first round QB starting for them was Jim Everett, and that wasn't even their first round pick. As for Steve Spagnuolo, don't assume that his defensive background makes Suh an automatic pick. From Walter Football:
Usually, defensive-minded coaches pick offensive players and vice versa. Defensive coaches usually think they can fix their defense with lesser players, and vice versa. You look at Jim Schwartz, Marvin Lewis, Mike Nolan, etc. - all defensive guys - they all took a QB with their first pick in their first year.
The anecdotal evidence can be ignored, but the idea of getting the most out of lesser players is a documented strategy for Spagnuolo.
Not take this post as an endorsement of the Clausen pick; personally, my mind isn't made up either way. This is a legitimate debate for the Rams and their fans to have as the team sits at a major turning point in the direction of the franchise. This is the most important pick the team's had in a long time and that situation requires an open mind and the thoroughness to explore all options.
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clausen is my favorite QB
in the class, but I’m not sold on him as number 1 material, even though Walter Football is really high on him.
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Null?
He showed he had potential.. Maybe if we get some talent for him to work with he could do well. And what about the 2nd round pick? Any good QBs there?
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by AbsolutMoose on Jan 8, 2010 10:34 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Yes, I vote for a QB in the 2nd Round
If we can’t trade out of the 1st overall for a lot of extra picks, than I say we draft Suh and than look at QB RD2. Maybe a Javon Snead or……..??? I would love hear from the TST faithful on what QB’s are expected to be sitting there with the 1st pick in the 2nd round. I’m not a scout, so I’m just speculating with Sneed.
2nd round QBs
Colt McCoy could drop.
Jevan Snead had a terrible season.
Tony Pike could be a system QB.
Future Redbirds! www.futureredbirds.net
Rams Gab! www.ramsgab.com
Typically QBs aren't drafted in the 2nd round at all.
If a QB has 1st or 2nd round talent, he’s usaully taken in the 1st round since team’s aren’t willing to miss them the 2nd time through.
Looking back (and I have this info in a spreadsheet on my home computer), I don’t think ANY quarterbacks have been selected in the 2nd round in the past 10 years. Maybe one. And I think the reason is the top-er ended talent goes in the 1st round and then the rest goes 3rd round or later. So, expecting Snead or McCoy (who I don’t think will ever fall out of the 1st unless something drastic develops with his shoulder), Pike, or Bradford will last until round 2.
or…
Once the first wave (or run) of QBs are taken, it’s pretty safe to assume any team that wanted a QB got one and the one’s who are left know that they can probably wait another round and get the QB they have their eye on or a similar one.
Either way, it’s kind of a tough situation to be in. If this draft goes the way most drafts have gone, if you pass on Claussen in the first, you’re probably gonna be looking at Lefevour in the 3rd. And I really don’t have a huge problem with that.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
I was curious after you said that…so I looked for second round QB’s. Here they are:
2001:
Drew Brees (32nd pick)
Quincy Carter (53rd pick)
Marques Tuiasosopo (59th pick)
2006:
Tarvaris Jackson (64th pick)
2007:
Kevin Kolb (36th pick)
John Beck (40th pick)
Drew Stanton (43rd pick)
2008:
Brian Brohm (56th pick)
Chad Henne (57th pick)
2009:
Pat White (44th pick)
It’s seemingly picked up of late, but you are right. It is quite sporadic, and looking the names…Meh? Not bad. LeFevour or Bradford. Pike has a noodle for an arm.
I believe in 2010
by Eric Nagel on Jan 8, 2010 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Claussen might be
The draft pundits at Todd McShay said that he views Claussen as a high 2nd round guy. Hell, we could potentially go Suh in the first, Tate in the second, and grab a Ryan Mallet or (now that he declared) Jevan Snead. Both are pretty raw talents, but with the right coaching, I think they could be just as good as any of the potential first rounders.
We had a poll up asking what the Rams should do. Here’s how it looks right now:
Suh: 222 votes
Clausen: 99 votes
Bradford: 41 votes
Mocking the Draft: Your NFL Draft source.
by Dan Kadar on Jan 8, 2010 10:37 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Go with the best player on the board
Which is Suh drafting a quarterback wont make us win next year and drafting suh wont either so why not just go with the better player overall which is certainly Suh
"Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that."
by Brandon Birkhead on Jan 8, 2010 10:58 AM CST reply actions
If you believe one of those guys is a
franchise, pro-bowl type QB – then you pounce on him. The best QB in the league is worth more than the best DT (I’m sorry, but it’s true). QB’s also tend to have longer careers than linemen.
I’m all for drafting Suh, who will surely make our defense much better. Sometime in the near future, though, we have to identify a QB with some talent (more talent than Null), draft or sign and develop him. The Rams need a face of the franchise type QB for both the purpose of marketing the team and expanding the fanbase and for winning games.
McCoy in the 2nd round might be a good choice. His upside is pretty low, but I think he can be a solid NFL starter – like a Chad Pennington or Trent Green type. Those guys don’t tend to win superbowls (Trent Dilfer!), but they’re solid players that can win some games.
Suh will make..
Laurenitis, Long, and our secondary better. Clausen may be good but we will still be deficient in talent around him.
If we get Clausen, I'd be in tears.
Clausen is downright awful. Notre Dame quarterbacks not named after states have always sucked in the NFL. Why is this guy going to be different? He won’t. He sucked in college and only succeeded when he had Golden Tate to throw to. He’s just like Brady Quinn and he can’t turn anybody around. If we take a quarterback, we need to take Dan LeFevour. He would be the man.
Wow, non of that is logical.
Just baseless comparisons and weird historical precedents about Notre dame players.
Jimmy Clausen had a great season last year, Golden Tate or no Golden Tate. A lot of upper echelon teams also had great receivers around them and yet Clausen outperformed their QB’s. He’s also the right system and say what you want about Charlie Weiss as a HC, he’s developed some great QBs in the past.
I’m still leaning Suh, but I definitely understand the Clausen hype.
And LeFevour would probably still be there in the 3rd round or later.
That would allow us to strengthen our defense by taking the best players available and still get a QB to compete with Null for the future.
The choice of Suh is SO obvious...
…that I have no doubt the Rams will screw it up. Heck maybe they can even work it out so another NFC West team can get Suh???
by edpjr on Jan 8, 2010 11:44 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Clasen is a reach at number 1 overall...
and yes, we need a quarterback but the Rams needs are many with holes everywhere so it stands to reason to take Suh who is deserving of a number 1 pick plus when you have a team as bad as ours ‘best player available’ is the right choice IMHO. I’ve heard it all around the various sites that this is not a good year for quarterbacks coming out of the college ranks.
I would wait until the second or third round to see what quarterbacks are available at that point. If who ever is available does not measure up to being a franchise quarterback DON’T FORCE IT to happen. When a team is as needy as the Rams I believe ‘best player available’ is the right choice everytime.
I still say we won’t have a true playoff contender in St. Lousi until 2012. I know that’s a long way off but that’s how I see it.
Go Rams!
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now." --- Bruce Coslett, New York Jets Head Coach circa 1990s
by Nbr1RamFan on Jan 8, 2010 12:18 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I agree with andyrose.
Clausen is going to be a bust! He coudn’t even beat Navy! Just because he has some of the tools of a good QB doesn’t mean he will be. Ryan Leaf and Rick Mirer come to mind and I bet those guys would have beat Navy! I hate Florida and I would rather have Tebow, at least that kid knows how to win and with our line he could absorb the punishment and keep playing. Don’t get me wrong I’m not wanting Tebow, I’d just prefer him over Clausen. If they could get a winner like Lefevour in the third I would be estactic. Our team does not need a rookie first round QB right now.
What is it with people?
Look I like Clausen, but I’m not going to let that deter me from laughing at this post. I’m not trying to be rude, but blaming a QB, who actually, played quite well in that game, for a TEAM loss is ridiculous. If you want to oppose the drafting of a player, use concise, detailed reasons, don’t blame a QB for a team loss. His stats for the Navy game:
104.4 QB Rating — 37 for 51 (72.5% completion) — 452 Yards — 2 TD — 1 INT
Now, I didn’t watch the game, but just from looking at these numbers I can tell you that he was not the reason for the loss.
I believe in 2010
You like Clausen, I don’t. In my opinion he’s going to be a bust. Maybe you’re right, only time will tell. I don’t care what his QB rating was, there is no way Navy should beat Notre Dame. To me he’s not a winner.
HA!
He should have made more tackles.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Navy also lit
up Missouri. They have a good scheme, are well coached, and play hard.
I say take Suh..
with the number one pick and Pike or Lefevour in the later rounds because as many have stated, Suh’s presence will likely make the rest of the defense better. However, a rookie QB will not make the rest of the offense better.
+ a billion
If we can pull the trigger on a deal for Kolb, we can use a 2nd or 3rd round pick for the “weapons” that we’re so desperately missing. Of the QBs available, I’m only intrigued by Bradford & LeFevour.
by mooseknuckles41 on Jan 8, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
We MUST have this guy. He can be friends with Massey & Josh Brown.
Kolb is an avid hunter; it has been reported that he hunts wild hogs with a couple of dogs and a 12-inch bowie knife. He asserts that controlling the hog population is an essential part of protecting his hometown’s crops. “One hog can ruin an entire field of crops in just one night. They dig up and eat the roots. They need to be controlled,” says Kolb.
by mooseknuckles41 on Jan 8, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
I lke Kolb already
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
what whould you spend in a trade for him?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Couldn't agree more.
I have a feeling the Rams will end up with one of the three Eagles QBs.
Rams fans should be hoping for an Eagles Superbowl win making it impossible for the Eagles to enter into next season with anyone not name McNabb as QB.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jan 8, 2010 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
If it were guaranteed that we'd have an Eagles QB next season.
I’d put all my money on Vick.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
vick is horrible and
a disgrace…. take clausen
Btw,
how does one from Nova Scotia become a Rams fan?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
First NFL game I saw...
was the Rams and at that age any team with a player named “Flipper” was instantly my favorite team….
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jan 9, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
I like Kolb, he's a good solib QB who I think has had enough seasoning to succeed at the NFL level
He’s my #1 among realistic choices for getting a QB next season, ahead of getting one in the draft.
if Van can
single-handedly start a nationwide “Rams interested in Campbell?” rumor, I think a few of us together could rally the wagons around the HogKiller.
by mooseknuckles41 on Jan 9, 2010 1:47 AM CST up reply actions
If we don't take Suh
We are making a mistake IMHO… especially if we don’t get extra picks and trade out… we need a DT… he is a beast…
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
My thoughts on the "Take a QB in the 2nd Round" talk
this approach seems to advocate drafting a QB just so the Rams can say they drafted a QB. The QB position is so important that you can’t just half-ass it. Why is everyone suggesting that we draft a Pike, Snead, LeFevour? If you don’t want to draft a 1st round talent QB this year, that’s fine. But I don’t think just taking any QB we can in the 2nd round will be wise going foward. It would be better to rather completely ignore the QB position in this draft, and address the issue through free agency, or wait until next year’s draft when we actually do like some of the first round talents enough to take them.
I especially don't get why people want Snead
Pike would be good if he had an arm. LeFevour seems like a good choice but he most likely couldn’t help next season. I say we just sign Pennington, if Bulger isn’t coming back. If Bulger is coming back, we can still use him for a year or two. In any case we could draft LeFevour if we have one of those two QBs. Waiting until second round or later wouldn’t help our QB situation at all this coming year. We’ll see what happens.
Snead
performed badly, but had great tools. Going into the season, people were looking at him as perhaps the 2nd best QB that would be draft eligible (behind Bradford).
I was curious where teams got other quarterbacks
So I took a look at the top 20 qb’s of 2010 per football outsiders:
3 were number one overall for the team they currently played (P. Manning, E. Manning, C. Palmer )
8 were first round draft picks by the team they are currently playing for (Rivers, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Flacco, Young, Campbell, McNabb) .
3 were later round pick ups by the team their playing for (Brady, Henne, Gerrard).
4 were Free Agent pick ups (Brees, Farve, Romo, Warner)
2 were trade acquisitions (Orton, Schaub).
— Note 1: I counted Eli/Rivers as drafted, since that trade was defined at the point they were drafted.
— Note 2: How did I not know that Romo was undrafted?
Currently, I’m really pulling for Suh, everything I see makes me excited for him, but looking at this list, it does make it seem like that at some point or another, our best chance of picking up a “franchise qb” (arguably Schaub, Campbell, Gerrard and a few others aren’t franchise) is really through using a first round draft pick. Whether that be trading back into the first this year (if necessary) or using our pick next year.
by GrnGyant on Jan 8, 2010 2:43 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1
couldn’t agree more. QB’s in the playoffs right now are 8 of 12 as first round picks. I think DT’s are a majority of not first rounders. I did the draft position of top DT’s to QB’s a while back and got something like 80% of top QB’s from the first round and only 60% of top DT’s from the first. Even with all this evidence for a QB being a safer bet for turning our franchise around (I mean come on, no DT is gonna take us to the promiseland without a QB) I still think we should take Suh.
These Stats don’t suggest that we should take a QB first but the odds of getting a good QB outside the first, rests somewhere around 10-20%. The odds of getting a good DT outside the first is somewhere around 35-50%. Again this doesn’t take into account the actual players in this draft but it’s something to keep in mind when looking at the whole 2010 class: Is Suh that much more dominant than Vince Oghobasse? Probably. Is Clausen really that much better than LeFevour? Yes.
Is Suh significantly better than Clausen?
Yes. Can a Suh-type player be expected to be available again soon? No. Can we get a better QB next year than Clausen? I say, likely. I still like Locker, or Mallett. Also Andrew Luck or Barkley may further develop next year as well.
If we do try to get a 1st round QB
I would guess its going to be by, taking Suh then seeing what the other teams have to offer. If there is a team that offers a good QB than the Rams will listen IMO.
I know I will most likely get scorched for mentioning this...
but has anyone considered what return we could get for Steven Jackson? My thought is:
1) This team isn’t going to compete next year, and possibly the year after, why waste him?
2) I know he’s fast, but he’s also a power back. Guys that take a pounding like he has don’t age well. See Ladainian Tomlinson, Shaun Alexander, Edgerrin James
SJax is 26 years old. Those three all saw a big dropoff in production (all of them dropped to under 4 yards/carry) in their age 28 season.
3)He’s coming off a great year. A year in which he carried the team. A year that it would have been very easy to complain about his “supporting” cast. He demonstrated character and leadership all the while producing at a very high level.
4)There are playoff teams that need a franchise back. Funny Kevin Kolb was mentioned earlier, because the Eagles lost Brian Westbrook, and it looks like his career is over. Green Bay has Ryan Grant, but he’s no Steven Jackson. Indy could probably use a RB. New England is still trotting out Laurence Maroney. So hopefully I made my point that interest would most definitely be high.
Jackson is an elite back in the league and if we realize his value now by trading him, I think we would get our highest return. Thoughts?
You may run like Hayes, but you hit like shit.
I think it all depends
On how the RB class this year and how the FA is. Nobody knows what the hell is going to happen if there’s an uncapped year, but if their is enough demand, I wouldn’t mind trading him. He certainly deserves to play on a good team, but It’s bad business to get emotional and make a bad deal.
Everybody wants to be a part of a team that comes together and plays well. He has said many times he’d like to stay with the Rams.
Who knows
I believe in 2010
I'm a fan of this plan
By the time the Rams become an offensive threat, he’ll be past his prime. I am definitely in the “trade Steven Jackson” camp. Of course, it would have to be for a steep price.
Honestly, what’s the worst that happens? The Rams have a franchise-low offensive year… again?
For a team like ours
No player should be considered off limits. I don’t think we can get the value for Jackson that would be an offer we couldn’t refuse. I explored this idea early in the season, but have all but shitcanned it now.
I feel like
Kevin Kolb plus a pick or two would be enough. Maybe a 3rd rounder.
You may run like Hayes, but you hit like shit.
No. Not kidding.
A 2nd rounder would be more likely. Maybe a 2nd and a late rounder. But to me a top 15 QB is much more valuable than a top 15 RB and a RB is easier to find. Plus other teams will be plenty aware of the diminishing returns of running backs. Jackson probably has 2 highly productive years left, then maybe a couple of years where he’s acceptable. I guess the question is how effective you think Kevin Kolb will be.
This whole proposition could be moot though seeing as how the Cowboys are beating up on the Eagles and McNabb is the guy they may be kicking to the curb, all according to ESPN, as reliable as they are.
You may run like Hayes, but you hit like shit.
Living in Detroit
The Lions really want Suh.
So what do you think of this? Calvin Johnson and the Lions #1 for our #1. That way we get a good WR and the #2 pick in the draft. Take McCoy with the second pick.
Just a thought.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
So you mean
Calvin Johnson + G. McCoy = Ndamukong Suh ?
I personally think Johnson+McCoy is superior to Suh alone… and Detroit wouldn’t offer this trade.
Well, that sounds like a really bad move from the lion's perspective.
But hey, as a Ram’s fan i’d love it.
They'd never do it
An All-Pro Young WR who hasn’t even hit his prime, the second pick in the draft for one player?
We’d have to give up a WR or somebody at least. SJ most likely.
I believe in 2010
No offense
but that could be the worst suggestion I have heard in a while. Don’t get me wrong I would love it, if it was remotely realistice, but McMillan is out of Detroit.
There is no way that Detroit would give up there First overall pick of just a few years ago + their 1st pick this year for SUH. Megatron (Calvin) is their new franchise quarterbacks best option and there is no way in hell they are going to make life HARDER for their young QB of the future. Sorry guy.
Is Ditka the head coach?
If so we have a shot at getting ALL their picks
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
Walterfootball is crazy
As much as I like that site, I can’t help but think that they are smoking crack about the Rams taking Clausen with the #1 pick. NFW that will happen (or should happen), the Rams front office is too risk adverse (think why they drafted Long and Smith), which is good in this case. Also, a QB selected at #1 overall will have a bigger guaranteed contract that a DT selected at the same position, another reason why the Rams won’t (shouldn’t) take him. Jimmy Clausen is a HIGH risk/mediocre reward pick at #1 overall. He is not the next coming of Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, or even Joe Thiesman. If he was, then he would be the clear pick and very little debate given the needs of the team. I am not saying that Clausen sucks, but to take him at #1 would be a major, major reach..
Suh is clearly the safer #1 pick at this point, the most dominate player at his position in 10 -20 years.. How many DT’s lead their team in tackles 2 years in a row? Win every defensive award possible at his position, even place in the Heisman voting? He is a difference maker, and at this point has all the makings of a sure fire pro bowl DT. Nobody with half a football brain can say that about Clausen being a lock at being a pro bowl QB, which is why the Rams should not take him at #1. If he drops to #20 or so, then maybe trade up to get him, but then its like Brady Quinn II, and the Rams don’t need that either. The smart move for the first 3 rounds is to take Suh at #1, then take a TE, DE, OLB, or WR (which ever is the most pressing need) in the 2nd round, then take LeFevour with your 3rd round pick. Pick up a Veteran QB to fill in (Delholme, Vick, Pennington, etc) until either LeFevour or Null are ready to take over.
Vick?
Vick?Never!!!When are you people realize this trash is not a real quarterback.
Sad thing is
No real answer exists out there.
You gotta have someone take snaps next year. I, for one, would prefer a Vick-like player who throws another offensive threat in the mix in the form of his feet. If given a choice of Null/3rd-rounder or Vick/Null for the next season. I pick Vick/Null.
Ask yourself
Vick + Suh (rookie QB taken in 2nd)
or
Rookie QB + Carriker
The answer should be pretty obvious
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
I'd take Vick on this team...
he can run the offense and still has plenty of leg left. Nice TD pass he threw against the Cowboys, at least it was good for a trash QB. LOL
by RamsFan1979 on Jan 10, 2010 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
If the Rams...
don’t take Suh and take a QB with the first pick I might have to walk away after being a fan for 30 years. His impact on the defense would be tremendous. An elite DT is not easy to find and he would vastly improve the defense as he would make things easier on Long, JL, and the defensive backs.
Spags likes the physical corners and if the Rams can get a solid pass rush with those corners the D will vastly improve.
In a draft where the depth of talent is being applauded and yet there is a clear cut #1, it would be negligent not to take Suh.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jan 8, 2010 3:58 PM CST reply actions
I am spotting myself....
the years I didn’t really even know football existed.
Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com
by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jan 10, 2010 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
wait wasnt this the same hype...
as for glenn dorsey??? anyone can bust. dorsey had same hype
Mike Vick Anyone?
Why arent we trying to get this guy…he could be a short term solution to get fans in seats while a rookie QB is groomed
by trest on Jan 8, 2010 5:25 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
i dont think he is that good rather draft for a QB in the later rounds
We take Suh with No 1 then a OLB wIth No 2 a WR with No 3 and then we can look for a QB
for now our starting QB is Null
by james535 on Jan 8, 2010 7:06 PM CST up reply actions
WR
What type of WR do you think will be there at No. 3? It has to be somebody with a big body. Have to figure avrey, robinson, gibson, brooks foster and burton (maybe) will be our WR core next year. Personally I think Amendola should stick as a return man and possible depth at WR if someone goes down (probably will happen). I dont think any WR should be taken for the Rams in this draft. As much as we need a great #1 I dont see anyone of that caliber at round 3. OLB at 2 could be a good choice if no QB or DE.
I agree Ed.
Like I said above… ask youself…
Vick + Suh (rookie QB in second)
or
Rookie QB + Carriker
If I see another D-Line repeat performance next year, and a rookie qb tackling dummy, I am seriously going to lose it.. and i’m a pretty mellow guy overall.
I’ll also puke I’m sure… because I can’t take reading many more reality posts by Ed.
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
This is all water cooler talk...
The Rams will take Suh or trade down for a bunch of draft picks. Only if the latter happens will they possibly target a QB. I personally believe they need to grab all defensive players in the draft they can unless they know an offensive prospect is going to be game changer and a value pick in the round selected. Rams, please leave QB off the table until next year. This will be a great draft year to shore up the D. Build a strong defense through the draft and worry about offense in free agency.
Bulger's Status
Hold the phone. Today I read a report by Bryan Burwll saying that Bulger’s agent said that he’s not ready to hang up his cleats yet so all these other stories a premature.
What to do with #1 overall
First off, I would avoid Suh like the plague for one reason: he’s a Nebraska guy. Aside from Grant Wistrom, every Cornhusker in STL Rams history has been either a bust or a headcase. Do the names Lawrence Phillips, Eric Crouch, Adam Carriker, and Richie Incognito – yeah, him – come to mind?
Also, that pick should not go to a quarterback because he’ll be killed behind our current offensive line. Speaking of quarterbacks, Michael “Ron Mexico” Vick will never wear Blue and Gold as long as Chip Rosenbloom is still the owner. Rosenbloom made the Shiloh movies, about a puppy that was abused and is looking for a new home.
I feel that the first overall pick should go to another offensive lineman to protect the QB they draft in the second round. Otherwise, they should trade down and get more picks.
As far as OL goes
The only player worth thinking about IMO is Russell Okung. But I don’t know if he’d be worth that much money as a RT, or keeping Jason Smith on the right side at such a contract.
I believe in 2010
Good analysis
I am perplexed about Okung too. I am interested in knowing how he compares to Smith or Jake Long. Depending on FA, Barron, injuries, Rams MAY be forced to select Okung, which would be a shockwave for many no doubt!
Trade down
That’s who the Rams should go after, even if it means trading down to pick him at a more reasonable spot.
you can't be serious
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
About Clemson
What names come to mind, because I’m blanking?
logical
actually, come to think of it, everybody the rams have drafted in the last 10 years has been a bust, so they should probably take whomever they are considering and then draft his complete OPPOSITE!!! that way they’d be sure to draft the right guy. but wait…wouldn’t that mean that the original guy was the right one? (head explodes)
Dam i ant know about that Cornhusker Curse,thats it trade Suh for more pics
SF and Seachikens both have 2 No 1 picks this year ,lets make a deal lol
by james535 on Jan 8, 2010 7:11 PM CST reply actions
i rather have two number one picks then to get Suh
we could get a QB and WR both No 1 picks then get a DT with No 2 and OLB with NO 3
Rams have too many holes to fill and Suh is only one guy in one position
by james535 on Jan 8, 2010 7:14 PM CST reply actions
But the biggest "hole" is in the non-existent D-LIne. Suh is the best available player in the draft.
Detroit and/or Tampa are hoping we’re idiots enough to bypass him, and given past history, they’re probably right.
Hakeem 'The Dream' was the first overall selection in that draft...
by RamsFan1979 on Jan 10, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
He was pretty good.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Best offense is a good defense
Here’s why we need Suh. Rather than always having to start our drives deep in our own territory, we get a run-stuffing, QB-killing DT that stops drives before they start. Now we’re starting out at our 40 yd line or even in opposing territory. That makes everything easier on whatever QB we have. Also, that QB had better damn well not be Vick!!
by Brendan W on Jan 8, 2010 8:43 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I agree a good D-Line cures many ills
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
Suh 1st round
We should pick Suh in the first round and take the next best player in the second round.As for QBs I would take a chance on LeFevour, McCoy, Bradford, or even Clausen in the later rounds. But Kolb in probably the best option at QB the Rams should take a chance at.
Oh man...
I would totally take a chance on McCoy, Bradford, and Clausen in the later rounds… it’s shame they won’t make it out of the first.
McCoy won't make it in the NFL.
He was QUICKLY taken out of his last game. I don’t like QB’s who can’t take hits, especially w/our line still allowing too many sacks.
by RamsFan1979 on Jan 10, 2010 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
Clausen has everything it takes to be a All-Pro QB
Poise, toughness, intelligence, pedigree.
That said, I absolutely love Suh and think not taking him would be a mistake. It wouldn’t be a huge mistake though and I could live with either guy.
i prefer
arm strength, accuracy, etc to immeasurable quantities as listed above.
Defense win championships.
First the lambs need to fix the defense that gives up a millions per game. Getting a QB first will do nothing. The O-line couldn’t stop a high school team. So with a new QB, a crummy O-line and a shitball D, 0-16 here we come.
by Skunkburner on Jan 9, 2010 12:32 AM CST via mobile reply actions
In the case of the 1999 season...
the Rams had the best rushing defense and a below-average passing defense; but they managed to allow the fourth-fewest points.
Meanwhile, they had the best overall offense, highlighted by the best passing offense and fifth best rushing offense.
My verdict:
1999 offense > 1999 defense
Thus, offense can win championships too. Or, to be fair, the combination of both wins championships.
Very true
But the Rams as you said gave up the fourth least points. And the best rush defense. As of now the rams can’t stop anybody pass or rush. So spags being a D coach should boost the D first while working on the offense. Be smart Rams please! Go Dodgers!
by Skunkburner on Jan 9, 2010 2:59 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Great offenses skew the team's passing defense
In 1999, teams abandoned the run to try and keep up with us on the scoreboard. That skews both our run D stats (making them look better) and our passing D stats (making them look worse).
by postrophemo on Jan 10, 2010 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
I assume all you scouts out there have evaluate video of both suh and clausen
as matt mcguire at WF notes everyone thought the falcons were taking dorsey and everyone thought the lions were going either Smith OT. The fact is we need a QB and will never progress until we have one. furthermore, we have way too much money wrapped up in the d-line already with carriker and long. adding in $50 million for suh is just plain irresponsible.
and thing thing is, all of you claiming you’ll leave the rams forever yada yada yada if they draft clausen won’t because you’re going to be warmed up to the idea, just like lions and falcons fans were in years past.
i’m fairly confident that we will in fact go QB despite what the rest of you all think. it’s a more valuable position, a position of greater need, and there is in fact a guy there worth taking.
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Resident malcontented betamale
I respect your comment
but a position of greater need? Perhaps… but i’d say more of an equal need. It’s going to be 2011-2012 before we see winning football.
I think what we need to be talking about is the QB class of NEXT years draft.
That may tell us a little into the draft game plan.
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
even if they are of equal need QB is the pick then by default since it's a more important position
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Resident malcontented betamale
also, is there any precedent of a front office intentionally not addressing a position of need
with the intention of addressing it the next draft?
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Resident malcontented betamale
For all those wanting to draft a QB at #1
I ask the question: Is there QB head and shoulders above the rest?
Assuming the Rams take Suh at #1, that means there are 31 teams that will draft before the Rams pick again. How many of those teams need a QB? 12 playoff teams, none of them do. Down to 19 teams that could pick one. Tennessee, NYG, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Denver, Houston, Atlanta no there either. Down to 12.
SF(2) Seattle(2) maybe, but they’re not going to pick two QB’s each, so we’ll drop to 10. I can see SF drafting a QB, but not with a first rounder. TB I can’t see taking a QB at #3. Down to 8.
Unless Washington, Jacksonville, KC, Oakland, Buffalo, Miami, Cleveland and Seattle all pick QB’s with their first round picks, we should have a pretty good choice for a QB at the to of the second round.
Personally, I’d like to see them get Kolb. Kolb and Avery played at Houston together and I think coold work well together
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
Houston!!!!
and then we can draft Case Keenum next year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cougars fight for dear old U of H
For our Alma Mater cheer.
Fight for Houston University
For victory is near.
When the going gets so rough and tough
We never worry ’cause we got the stuff.
So FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT for red and white
And we will go to victory.
Eat 'em up Cougars
Are you a fellow cougar?
Class of ’82.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
The S.am H.uston I.nstitute of T.echnology is a fine place-
But they always had a little bit of a PR problem——and a terrible Alma-Mater cheer!
Summa Cum Laude?
Sure sounds like it. It would be a bad Alma Mater cheer, but it’s not the Alma Mater.
If you’re going to try and slam UH, you have to at least use the right insult. Keep trying troll.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
KC
is out of the QB race traded for Cassel and signed long term, i cant see JAX taking one based on gerrard being servicable, they need wide out help, Oakland, Buffalo, Seattle, and Washington is where i see the most. cleveland maybe but with holmgren in there he might help out Quinn. I dont see Miami either chad henne did a decent job
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
This year's crop of qb's are illusionary
ALL OVER-RATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would take Kolb with a 4th or 5th pick if rams just had to draft a qb.
how do you know they're overrated?
at this point all we have is mcshay and the general impression that notre dame qbs don’t succeed.
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Resident malcontented betamale
by slu on Jan 9, 2010 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
excellent analytical thinking
So who goes in the first round?
Washington, Jacksonville, Oakland, Buffalo, Seattle
Claussen
McCoy
Bradford
Tebow?
The dropoff from there appears huge, and none of the above QBs look like sure things. There are just so few prospects out there, particularly if Locker and Mallett are really staying. I’d be shocked if any of the top 3 made it out of the first round, and then what are you left with? Third round talent, other than Tebow, who is a complete wild car.
by postrophemo on Jan 10, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
DUDE, C'MON MAN!
You could stick Peyton Manning behind the Rams OL and HE could not right this ship from it’s wrong “high seas drifting”.
You have to PREVENT the qb from getting “K I L L E D – SACKED” before an offense can be successful, period
AND
end-of-discussion!
so you do that by....drafting a d-lineman?
it’s time for the rams to go qb. if we don’t trust our o-line next year we never will. we have our franchise LT and we’ve invested a lot of money in bell and brown. if you don’t think your line is competent now it never will be.
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Resident malcontented betamale
by slu on Jan 9, 2010 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
and as a front office
do you think its better to strive for the norm or the exception to the norm?
I'm like a polygon, I'm edgy.
Resident malcontented betamale
by slu on Jan 9, 2010 6:13 PM CST up reply actions
His point is that a kick ass defense makes EVERYTHING better.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Unless you consider winning the SuperBowl the "norm"...
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
You're debating the difference
of the trip rather than the destination… moot point if you’re goal is to win the SB. Very few QB’s transtion to the NFL & are effective their first year. Aside from SJ, there is no support a rookie QB can count on from our offense; at least enough to help at the level say NYJ have. We are ready for an experienced NFL QB, not a rookie IMO.
by RamsFan1979 on Jan 10, 2010 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
i think you roll the dice
take suh, take the best in the 2nd QB wise and then WR in 3rd
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
I get it now - Put Clausen in to be a DE'' butt buddy
Look folks, it is better to build and solidify the trenches, not to mention an OL which does not get injured every other snap of the ball. If rams draft Clausen, I will hurl.
Draft Suh or G. McCoy.
2nd Rd. – Do not draft Colt McCoy either. If Rams take a qb in the draft this year, Spags and Devaney are dumb, especially since we will have a high pick next year too.
I just read a sports article where Mr. Devaney and Spags say they don't giva sh*t what the fans think. They're relying entirely on their own brilliance wrt the draft.
After 1-15, I wouldn’t be so bold or condescending about my wizardry. Seems like somebody forgot the “fans” are paying their outlandish salaries. I don’t live in STL and attend games, but I can sure as heck cancel my expensive Direct TV NFL Sunday package if it’s the same old crap after the 1st 4-5 games in 2010….
They're paid to do a job.
not cow tow to the consensus of the fans.
And, fwiw, you’re making it sound a little harsh by saying they don’t give a “sh*t” what the fans think.
Here’s the quote:
If you listen to the grumbling voices among some unhappy Rams loyalists, they have already made up their minds. They think the team can’t afford to bring Bulger back as their starting quarterback if they want to show the ticket-buying public that this organization is in the mood for change. But Devaney said a few days ago that whatever decision he and Spagnuolo ultimately make about the QB position for 2010, it will have absolutely nothing at all to do with public sentiment and everything to do with smart football decisions.
If it were up to the fan base, we probably would have cut Steven Jackson after he made comments a couple of years ago about the lack of support from the fans.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Yeah, both these guys are tops in smart fb decisions...
Let’s see, drafting Keith Null – duh. And now maybe it ain’t looking so smart picking Jason Smith versus Mark Sanchez. The Jets would’ve given up multiple good players to get Sanchez away from us. And didn’t Spags bring in a lard ass washed up DT, that had once played for him, in the 1st 3-4 games and then have to cut him? Oh, and how ‘bout that brilliant OC Spags installed and intends to keep. Could any coach have made worse decisions in the Jags and Redskins games?? And, in the very last game of the season, I was really impressed with Spags calling time outs with 2 mins left and us behind by a score of 28-6. Maybe we could’ve gotten just one more player injured in that time to finish off season on a high note. Both Jim Mora X2 and Jim Zorn managed to beat Spags this year and they’re both gone with the wind. I’m pissed and I’m through cutting these hacks any slack… They better have enough freakin’ sense to get Suh!
I have been realitivly happy with the past few drafts, not greatly excited but not dissapointed either
The fact that Jason Smith had a serious concussion just flat out sucks! He will basically have to go through more growing pains next year, but at least he should be at LT. Hopefully he will pan out. Null=not a smart football decision. I cant help but see random flashes of good things from players but it can never all fire on the same page. After next year if we are in the same position I think things should be evaluated. The line actually played decent there for a while until the injury curse struck. I am starting to think they should just draft all defense this year, maybe an O-Lineman, to add to this young core and be set for years to come hopefully. Improving our offense needs so much and I dont see any WR other than Bryant that should replace who we already have. Next year go full blown offense. Maybe im wrong but that is how I see it.
You're right.
Fire everyone.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Bill Cowher is looking for a team?
That’s news to me. Don’t you think he could have a job if he wanted one? And who says he’d want to take over the mess that the Rams were last year?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
You are probably right about Cowher not even wanting the Rams job...
As a long-time fan, I just foolishly assumed he’d be honored, rather than thinking it could be a career-ending decision ala Mike Ditka in New Orleans. I did read an article that said Cowher wanted back in the NFL. But other than the Skins and Buffalo, there was no major blitzkrieg of losing coaches this season. It was not known at that time that Mora was one and done in Seattle. I think Cowher really wanted the Carolina job, but Fox was saved by the last minute winning streak over good teams.
Yeah.
I assume he wants back in, but is only going to take a close to Super Bowl caliber opportunity. Hell, if I were him, I wouldn’t take a rebuild project like the Rams.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
The local Charlotte News reported last nite that Fox was being given a chance to find another team prior to being released.
However, Fox doesn’t want to go to Buffalo and what else is available. I think Cowher may well end up being the next Carolina coach after all.
IVE BEEN STATING THIS
ARGUEMENT THE WHOLE TIME!
SUH!!! NO OTHER!!!
Most excitement about this team ALL YEAR was engendered over the hope that they would LOSE THE LAST GAME and thus lock up the #! pick.
NO ONE was hoping that and at the same time hoping they would draft Clausen “pickles” or any other QB.
IT WAS ALL ABOUT SUH!!!
What…all the experts are wrong about SUH?
Don’t overthink this one Billy D…we worked too hard to get here…now all we need is for you to have the cajones to MAKE THE PICK!
This is NOT a one(more) year fix.
Patience people patience.
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