SUH-per Bounty
by AmpLee on Jan 21, 2010 9:50 PM CST
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Barring some cataclysmic shift at the combine, N. Suh is the best player in the draft hands down. When re-building, the number one rule is taking the best player regardless of position. I think the Rams apply here. So 1+1 equals Suh...er...I mean...two. The Rams have 9 picks as of today, not counting possible conditional picks, but I am not holding my breath. So let's llok at what we have in terms of actual pick numbers and their rounds in parenthesis: #1 (1), #33 (2), #65 (3), #96 (4), #128 (5), #151 (5), #160 (6), #192 (7), and #210 (7). To me, it's a fair amount of picks with great positioning in each round. I am all for going with what we have and taking N. Suh and the Rest of the Crew.
I would not be adverse to a trade of our beloved Suh. However, unlike many weak propositions I have seen, you will have to pay. And I mean pay. That would be the only way I would trade out.
I've done my research and I would trade with a possible 6 teams: Det., TB, KC, Sea, SF, and NE.
I will offer six pick trade scenarios and I will ask you to vote at the end. I will then perform a mock draft of each scenario in the up coming month starting with the most popular choice to least.
Let's begin:
TRADE 1: #1 to Det. for #2, #34, #66, and #165
TRADE 2: #1 to TB for #3, #35, #42
TRADE 3: #1 to KC for #4, #36, #50, and #132
TRADE 4: #1 to Sea for #6, #14, and #40
TRADE 5: #1 to SF for #13, #16, #49, and #110
TRADE 6: #1 to NE for #22, #42, #47, and #53
I am not crazy. This would be my non-budging asking price for Suh. If a GM doesn't like it, fine. The Rams win anyway. I will let you guys vote until Sunday night and then I will start mock draft 1 with the most popular trade scenario.
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NO WAY to SeaSquawks & Whiners
We’d see Suh twice a year… and he’d be ticked! lol
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
Good point
To play Devil’s Advocate, those guys would have to face 3 to 4 other guys on the Rams who feel the same way.
49ers and Seahawks are the best and worst scenarios possible
They both give you two first rounder but then you are giving a division rival the best player in the draft. I don’t know if we’d or they’d do that. TB, KC, DET may not want to because they have many needs as well. I don’t want to drop out of the top 20 in one trade, so I wouldn’t deal with NE. All are possible, but difficult decisions for both parties. I’m not sure we could get them done. Also, I don’t know how ticked I would be if I were the best player in the draft and I didn’t have to go to the worst team in the NFL. I’d probably be happy.
You guys both make valid counterpoints!
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
Their own first or Oakland's?
Remember the Richard Seymor trade.
They call me the cloud, because I make it rain.
I would go with Seattle,
we could get Clausen at 6 and maybe Dez Bryant at 14, or trade down from 14 and take Golden Tate.
They call me the cloud, because I make it rain.
NEVER trade down in your own division
no matter how good it looks on paper. The long range result is facing their SUHperior loaded team, with the help of the Rams, twice a year. No thanks! Just MO.
I think the bigger issue would be their reluctance to give us two first rounders.
Not our reluctance to give them Suh.
Yeah I think srdmad doesn't see how UNrealistic
the scenerios are. There is no way a team will give up both their 1st rnds to move into the #1 spot. Don’t hold your breath believing they will as it is a crazy notion. AmpLee should have at least looked or brought up the NFL pts system to make his post realistic. Not Mike Ditka crazy sh%t as his examples show.
by RamsFan1979 on Jan 23, 2010 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
The question was "Which team would you trade with?"
My answer Seattle. Probably not gonna happen, but a question was asked and I answered it. Your logic of not trading within the division doesn’t make since. Seattle would be better, but so would we. Clausen+Bryant>Suh.
They call me the cloud, because I make it rain.
since or sense?
Sense meaning logice and since meaning from the time. I agree, Seattle is the best scenerio, but unrealistic none the less. I just question the fantasy trade vs a realistic trade. To each their own.
If you will look at the point system
I think you will see the two first round picks from Seattle don’t add up to the value of the Rams first round pick. Seattle would have to give us both of their first rounders and something more to even up the points.
Counterpoint
If you read the post correctly RF1979, you would know that the ONLY way I would trade the #1 would be for some “Mike DItka crazy sh%t”. I am not expecting it nor do I think the GMs would do it. The point, however, is that these scenarios would be the only way it would be worth it. You should at least “looked up” the meaning of the entire post.
I read the post and still think it's crazy Ditka sh*%t.
In fact, if you’re going to do a mock draft w/these picks [see, I read your post], then at least make it realistic I ask. I enjoy reading ppl’s post, and yours is no exception, but the Rams would only trade down, IMO, if they wanted a QB. TB & Det would love to have Suh. We get our QB and an extra couple of draft picks. IF they don’t want a QB then wouldn’t they choose the BPA? I’d think Suh or Berry are the most NFL ready, but again that is only IMO. I try and look at the logic and the great fantasy doesn’t quite fit, tho if you enjoy it I don’t wish to rain on your parade.
Tampa
I think it’s the most realistic, maybe not the most impressive trade of the bunch but probably the most likely. Having 3 second rounders would be nice, and maybe grabbing a quarterback for a little less money than a 1st would b nice. Could very easily grab 3 defensive starters with the 3 second round picks and maybe get lucky on a reciever later in the draft and come out with a franchise QB, hole fillers at DT, DE, OLB, and if we’re lucky a #1 wideout….playoffs anyone? haha ok ok i’ll stop there.
If we could get that trade, it would be amazing.
If we took all defense, our defense would be very much improved. Let’s say it goes like this, which I think it may if the trade is made:
Tampa: Suh
Detroit: Berry
St. Louis: McCoy
Then we get 3 defensive players round 2, who are probably all starters, pair them with Long, Lauranitus, and Fletcher, and you have 7 great young defensive players to build on for years to come. And that’s not to mention Cliff Ryan, and if we sign Atogwe long term we are set for 5+ years with 9 starters. Combine that with Spags defensive mind, free agency, and rounds 3-7 and you have a great defense all this year. That would allow us to focus on offense next year. I am giddy thinking of what our defense could be this year, and more so, the next season with added experience, if we make that trade.
bounty
Trade depends on what you get in FA. then what you see at combines. Hopefully you upgrade TE & OLB in FA. Then it depends on what you feel needs are. If QB then KC then TB if DL, S, or other is greatest need/player then go Det.
I think Wash will take Clausen at #5 if available and cut Campbell loose. I say take Suh at #1 and push for Campbell.
Nope
I’m kinda hoping the Lions draft Eric Berry
Suh looks awesome, I’m just saying look at the realistic picture. The draft chart point system is outdated and isn’t used anymore. Suh is a prospect, not a lottery ticket and Matt Millen isn’t a GM in the league anymore.
Think long term. Who will have a bigger impact long-term, a QB or a DT?
You can't just ask that question free and clear
When you plug in the names the choice is clear. We trade down or we pick Suh, No other choice.
I'm not wording it right
Trading down is a great idea, but for the scenarios detailed above in the post is unrealistic
Jazzy is correct.
all scenerios are unrealistic, a pipe dream if you will. I don’t agree that the points system isn’t used, but at least look at this: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2410670
Our #1 pick is worth 3000pts, #2 is 2000pts. If we traded with Detroit we would get their #1, but maybe not their 2nd rd pick, maybe their 3rd and a comparable player or a later draft pick to equal 3000 pts. For anyone to realy believe we’d get all those picks, again pipe dream.
by RamsFan1979 on Jan 23, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
And remember
this is for conversation and fun. Your comments are extremely welcome and appreciated but take the tough guy act down a little. We still love ya, big boy.
LOL, no tough guy here.
I am here to read and enjoy. See above. Think about it, if using the pts system make it add up. Then do the mock draft w/those picks. It would be more challenging [for you] and I think it’d ad realism to the posts. [Constructive criticism] Understand? Limited choices will make it difficult, but like most on here, we’d still follow and of course 60 different views on those picks…lol.
I never really got that chart.
If the team with the 4th pick wanted to move up three spots into the #1, they would have to trade their entire draft, assuming they have the number 4 pick in every round, and then they would still be about a 3rd rounder short. So if you’re going by the chart, you will never get you want. Even both of Seattle’s first round picks wouldn’t be enough alone. I doubt any team would do that. I’d be happy if TB just gave us their 2nd and 5th or 3rd and 4th rounders (neither of which would be “fair” for us in terms of that chart.) We could still get G. McCoy and then two very early 2nd rounders.
I'm aware of that but they're not on the chart.
And the next year’s picks wouldn’t have the same value as this year’s picks, at least in the eyes of coaches. That is shown by trades like the Denver-Seattle trade. Seattle traded its 2009 2nd rounder for one of Denver’s 2010 1st rounder picks. I was speaking strictly about that chart. I know we could get players as well, which would be even better, but if you get into all of that the possibilities are endless.
Everyone who wants us to draft a QB (aka Lions fan)
Seems to think if we draft a DT over QB this year we will never be able to draft a QB again. This isn’t the last draft so “thinking long term” doesn’t really make a difference. If we are thinking long-term, how would drafting a QB this year be so much better than one next year? We’re most likely not making a playoff until at least 2011, so why do we need one now?
Because we might not have as high of pick next year.
If we end up in the 6-8 range, who could we take at quarterback? Jack Locker would be gone already and we don’t know yet if Locker is worth trading two first round picks and one third round pick, like the Giants did to get Manning.
They call me the cloud, because I make it rain.
If we end up in the 6-8 game range
Chances are, we found a QB that can get the job done. I can’t see 6-8 wins with anyone on the roster unless Bulger makes a comeback or Null really develops in between seasons. And chances of that are unlikely. As much as it hurts me to say this, we will probably have a top 10 pick again next year if not top 5. And if we get 6 wins, we won’t have to trade up too far if we need to.
6-8 range as in what number our draft pick could be.
They call me the cloud, because I make it rain.
Next year's class though
does have some good quarterbacks http://bleacherreport.com/articles/331063-prestons-2011-nfl-draft-rankings-the-deep-class-of-quarterbacks so waiting until next year to get a quarterback appears to be a good option.
They call me the cloud, because I make it rain.
We're gonna need both.
This year the DT is far better than any of the QBs, so you take the BPA. We’re not going to win much next year anyway, and taking a QB first didn’t seem to help the Lions much this year (even the Rams beat them). Build the team over time taking the best players available, and eventually you have a solid team. No one player is going to make that much difference in the short term.
I guess I’m just saying not to zero in on 1 player. I was one of the many in the anti-Stafford camp at draft time last year. Many of us were convinced we were going to go defense and wait for the “strong” 2010 QB class. I was wrong and am glad I was
Let's hear you say that this time next year if the Lions don't improve their line.
At least by improving the line first the QB will have someone to protect him so he’s not getting injured during the year. IMO a better & smarter way to draft. I hate to say it, but look at Bulger; he took so many hits from our crappy line that it helped ruin him as an effective QB. The same thing will happen to Stafford. Go ahead and hope they choose Berry, but I’m sure we’ll see more of your backup QB than you’d like. I’m sure Stafford would agree w/me, O-Line support. Just my two cents.
by RamsFan1979 on Jan 23, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Thats why the Lions will be targeting LG big-time this upcoming draft. We’ve had over a dozen LGs the past 8 years and thats where the majority of sacks/QB hits have come from. I’ve seen a ton of mocks with the Lions taking Okung and he is not an upgrade over Backus
Yes I'm serious
At this moment without seeing any Senior Bowl practices/games and combines, no I don’t think Okung is an upgrade over Backus.
Have you
watched any Oklahoma st. games? I’ll admit his run blocking is shaky but his pass protecting better than anyone in this draft and im pretty sure schwartz is looking to upgrade LT this year
Theres a reason why Stafford is on the IR….Because backus is giving up 8 sacks a season!
The Schwartz has said he’s happy with Backus and thought he played at a ProBowl level (I don’t agree with it, but thats what the man said in a presser). I’m not a Backus fan, but he’s not the weakest link on the Lions OL.
I saw that, Pro Bowl...lol
Gotta love the coach sticking up for his guy. Still, giving up over 40 sacks [O-line] tells me help is needed. I don’t know the weak link in your line, but it does need to be addressed. Don’t you want Stafford healthy? I’d think first priority is him so prove it by picking someone to help protect him. I’m sure it’ll help the running game as well. Just my .02.
Lets ask SJAX
if he would prefer a DT or someone else to help him on offense so he doesn’t have to continue taking the pounding he takes.
I swear I’m not trying to be a troll, and if the draft was held today, Jan 23rd, yes, you would HAVE to take Suh. Lets wait for the combine before it’s a lock your team will be taking a DT #1 overall.
Do you really think a rookie QB
would take any pressure off Jackson? If we had Warner at QB, Fitzgerald and Boldin at WR, that would definitely help SJ, but just a rookie QB with the receiving corps and offensive game plan we have would make very little difference.
We all agree at some point the Rams need to find a solid #2 RB to carry some of the load, we need a #1 WR, a good TE, and more help with the offensive line, in addition to a QB. It would be good to get a start on that this year. But there is no way the Rams can fill all the holes on this team before the 2010 season. So, since we have so many holes to fill, why not take the BPA that fills some of those holes? Why take a lesser player because he plays a certain position? That’s the kind of reaching that has contributed to the Rams problems now.
Agreed, we need the BPA.
We had other coaches/GM’s make terrible draft picks that has help put us in this position of rebuilding from the ground up. Take the core few players and roll the best you can. We need more draft picks tho… wonder what/who we trade.
Here's a scenario I really like.
Trade our #1 pick to TB for their #3 and one of their second rounders and a 4th rounder. Then pull of a trade like the Alphonso Smith Denver-Seattle trade this year. 2nd rounder this year for 1st rounder next year. So then we have 2 first rounders next year, 1 this year, and one 2nd rounder in both years. With those three first rounders, you should be able to get a Franchise QB, a DT, and a #1 receiver. The receiver would come next year, and QB and DT could go either year. It just all depends, having 3 picks in the top 40 this year could really help our defense, and having 3 picks in the top 40 next year could really help our offense. This is probably very unlikely, but I would definitely do it if I had the chance. April is so far away.
I donnoo... for some reason
I’m picturing Spags salavating already picturing Suh in the lineup
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
WOW. Dream On.
About the trades I mean. I guess you will take Suh, score 9 points per game [less if Steven Jackson gets hurt] and wait until the 2011 class to pick up Locker or Mallet or whoever at #1, #2, or #3.
Then go through a painful 2011 as you work through your QB’s rookie season, pick in the top five and hope for the best in 2012.
Why are you so determined to tell the Rams what to do?
Or are you just someone who likes to stir the pot on other websites? Why not go back and just worry about your Lions? Heaven knows they sure could use help.
Well, I guess that is fine
at least we will beat the Lions 9-7, because we are better than them. Thank Goodness for one win……
I am not telling you what to do, no more than you are telling your Coach and GM what to do.
I guess I am here [like Jazzy] to set the record straight on the Lions trading up. The idea that Mayhew and Schwartz will move heaven and earth to get Suh is ridiculous. Gerald McCoy, the DT, is a hair behind him in talent and potential and would be a great addition to our team. Even Eric Berry is very good alternative. But go ahead, dream about trading the first pick for a bushel basket full of picks. Who knows? It might even happen.
Thank you for setting us straight
I for one feel much more enlightened by your constant nagging. I’m sure your own team could use some of that inspiration, like AR said. But please don’t go away mad.
Don't get frazzled guys.
NorthLeft12 has come to the sad realization that the Lions won’t get SUH for the #2 overall and two seventh rounders. and it just PISSES HIM (and, obviously, many other Lions fans) OFF.
Go away? Why would I go away? I like talking to you guys.
Knock yourself out and draft Suh. If anything, that increases the Lions chances of trading down with Tampa for Gerald McCoy or some other team who might want the best QB who you guys passed on.
Personally, our chances of trading down are slightly higher than yours. Kind of like slim as compared to none.
Yes, I will agree there are a lot of other Lions fans who are salivating over Suh. The same guys who were jumping up and down for Aaron Curry at # 1 last year. LOL.
NL12, I like the fact that you are here.
It’s just been funny to us here at the TST that so many Lions fans have been trying to talk us out of Suh. You just happened to be the 4th or 5th one. You’re right. No one is a sure thing. BUT……Suh is a bad man who fills an extreme need for the Rams and this QB clas is kind of lame on the top end. We know we need a QB. We just don’t want to reach for him. Especially when someone as powerful as Suh comes along at the top of this draft.
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