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Vick or Tebow


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Let me start by saying that I am in no way advocating the Rams getting Vick! I think it would border on ruining the franchise.

 

My point in writing this post is to compare Michael Vick to another mobile QB, Tim Tebow.  I would actually like to see Tebow in the Blue & Gold.  I'm not sure on his future in the league as a QB, but if we spent a 4th or 5th rounder on him I wouldn't mind. 

 

Now for the stats:

Star-divide

TEBOW

Passing

YEAR TEAM CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
2006 FLA 22 33 66.7 358 10.8 5 55 1 201.73
2007 FLA 234 350 66.9 3286 9.4 32 66 6 172.47
2008 FLA 192 298 64.4 2746 9.2 30 70 4 172.37
2009 FLA 213 314 67.8 2895 9.2 21 80 5 164.17

Rushing

YEAR TEAM ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST
2006 FLA 89 469 5.3 29 8 0 0 0
2007 FLA 210 895 4.3 25 23 0 0 0
2008 FLA 176 673 3.8 26 12 0 0 0
2009 FLA 217 910 4.2 55 14 0 0 0

 

VICK

 

Year Comp Att Comp % Passing TD INT Carries Rushing TD
1999 90 153 58.8 1840 12 5 110 580 8
2000 97 179 54.2 1439 9 7 113 636 9

 

 

***

 

Year

Attempts Comp. Comp % Yards INT TD's
1994 144 89 61.8 1141 6 11
1995 380 244 64.2 2954 4 22
1996 380 243 63.9 3287 12 20
1997 477 287 60.37 3819 11 37
Total 1354 851 62.85 11201 33 90*

 

Alright, let's examine the numbers.  This may be a little difficult to do with 4yrs vs. 2yrs, but I'll give it a shot.(I'll get to the third set of stats in a minute.)  What I don't want to get into is Vick's pro numbers. I want to examine what he did in college that made him seem worthy of the first overall pick.  He had a high yds/cmp, 20.4 his first year & 20 his second.  He had a nice yds/carry, 5.2 his first year & 5.6 his second.  Now let's keep in mind that his pass attempt number is low & not that much higher than his carries count.  His completion % was never over 59%.

 

Now let's look at Tebow. He has a lower yds/completion & yds/carry than Vick.  His completion % never dropped below 64.4%. He had a lower INT count than Vick and had nearly double the attempts.  Before anybody tries to say that his numbers are inflated by playing weaker teams consider the following:

 

2009 Regular Season Game Log Passing Rushing
DATE OPP RESULT CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD

10/17 Arkansas W 23-20  17     26   255   65.4    9.81 77        1 0       6      110.3 27   69     2.6 16 0

10/31 Georgia W 41-17     15     21   164   71.4    7.81 29        2 0       2      125.9 18    85    4.7 23

2

11/28 Florida State W 37-10 17 21   221   81.0   10.52 39      3 0       2       150.1 15 90      6.0 47 2

12/5 @Alabama L 32-13    20    35   247    57.1    7.06 59       1 1       0         76.7 10 63      6.3 23

0

SGR BWL Cincinnati W 51-24 31 35 482   88.6   13.77 80     3 0       2       147.3 14 51      3.6 17

1

I highlighted these games since they are against top tier teams. Of course he had bad games along the way, but this shows what can do against notable teams. When he has to use his arm he can.

 

Now look at the third set of numbers & compare them to Tebow.  Compare the TD numbers, very similar, same thing for %.  Tebow is behind on yardage though. So to whom am I comparing Tebow's numbers? Peyton Manning during his tenure at Tennessee. 

I am NOT say Tebow is Peyton.  What I'm getting at is if you are one of those hoping that the Rams get Vick, then I would think that it would make sense for you to hope we get Tebow.  He has shown that he can use his arm & feet, arm definitely better than Vick. He excels with short to mid-range throws, like a West Coast offense.  He works well with fast slot receivers, i.e. Avery.  He would be more than capable of sharing SJax's workload, thereby eliminating the need for a backup RB.

What we would get with Vick that we wouldn't with Tebow is a player who has no problem flipping off his own fans. We would get an Academic All-American, high motor, high character, team-first guy with Tebow.

 

So let me open up the lines to TST Nation. If you had to pick one of the two to be the face of our franchise who would you take?

Poll
Tebow or Vick
Tebow
108 votes
Vick
68 votes

176 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 29 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Tebow

My vote is for Tebow in this one. Although it definitely wouldn’t hurt my feelings to see Vick out there for the Rams given our current QB problems, I think Tebow brings 2 things to the rams that Vick can’t. The first being that, if anything, he has room to improve( younger than vick) and could actually produce in the pros, which many people don’t believe will happen (even more of an incentive for him to produce) and the second being publicity if anything. With Suh coming to the rams first overall, which barring a terrible combine, should happen, and drafting Tebow in the later rounds of the draft if he’s there, two of the biggest holes we have would possibly be filled depending on how he turned out…and lets be honest, a risk on Tebow later in the draft (only if he’s in the later rounds!!!) would be better than seeing Vick out there and not having any young QB behind him in the Depth Chart.

by Cloud324 on Jan 13, 2010 12:52 AM CST reply actions  

tebow no doubt

First off, i’m not going to get into why we should not pick Vick.
Second off, I want to say I realize that what we have seen from Tebow throughout his college career is not what you would say qualifies him to be a great NFL quarterback. I know everyone says he won’t produce in the NFL, which may very well be true. BUT, there is one thing you can not bring into question when it comes to Tim Tebow. He is a winner. He is a true football player. He is a extremely high character guy who puts absolutely everything he possibly has on the line to win a game. When people doubt Tebow he steps up to the challenge and produces what he needs to produce for his team. Could it possibly be that since everyone is questioning him now, he will step up his game up and produce in ways that no one thinks he is capable of.
The system he played in didn’t allow him to show if he could function in a pro-style offense, so yeah, noone knows for sure if he can, but he is not a bad passer. His passing stats are, like this post says, are good.
Tebow is a young determined man who was one of the best college players in the history of college football. I, personally wouldnt mind spending a third round draft pick on the kid. What if he proves everyone wrong ? I realize this could be a long shot, and im not trying to be a huge tebow supporter but if he can help this team then id say go for him… not vick.

by StLbluesfan43 on Jan 13, 2010 1:17 AM CST reply actions  

Tebow for Sure!

I get it what draft pundits say about Tebow, however he is coachable, determined, leader and has that “it” quality. He does need to work on his mechanics, but a good coach can correct that, but leadership is hard to come by. What I like the most about Tebow over Vick, is the unknown. You know what your going to get with Vick, but Tebow is an open canvas.

As of today ( alot can change up to draft day ) I wouldn’t draft him before the 4th.

by ramsforever on Jan 13, 2010 1:31 PM CST reply actions  

So you pick what you know you don't know

Over what you know you know and don’t like?

Maybe we should pick what we know we know. Or take a flier on what we don’t know we don’t know.

by BruinHalo on Jan 13, 2010 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Neither

Vick isn’t the future. If he wouldn’t have gone to prison- yes, we could go for him. But he’s had almost zero experience for a long time, and isn’t the type of accurate passer we need in a WC offense. He’s a “trick” guy. Roll him out and the teams won’t know what to do. I’m surprised his legs have lasted so long.

Tebow…meh. I like how everyone calls him a winner. There is no doubt he lead a great team, but I’m curious as to how hard it is to win at a massive college who has a massive football recruiting budget and constantly picks some of the best high school players out of the country to play for them. Tebow is a good player in a spread offense, but the fact of the matter is that he has no technical skills. He doesn’t throw right, he has bad mechanics. These are types of things that need to be changed, and who knows what the hell will happen when they are changed. He might not even be the same player.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t draft him, but There is no way someone should spend a 1st round pick on him. He simply needs to be coached too much to be drafted that high.

I believe in 2010

by Eric Nagel on Jan 13, 2010 2:31 PM CST reply actions  

+1

You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.

by 3k on Jan 15, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Im an SEC guy

I saw Tebow week after week down here…much as I hate to say it dude is money at the college lvl. However I dont believe he translates to the NFL as a QB. I may be wrong but thats just my opinion. That being said I would take him a thousand times over before I would put vick in my beloved Blue and Gold. If for no other reason than the upside is SOOOOO much higher with Tebow. Vick sucks and always has. He has no moral center and would be gone in a year anyway…..why waste the time? Between the two Take Tebow

by Propayne on Jan 14, 2010 12:19 AM CST reply actions  

Tebow

Tebow is a winner. He has passion for the game. If we could get him in the third or fourth round do it. I like Mccoy a little better though. Vick sucks.

by illchild on Jan 14, 2010 12:46 AM CST reply actions  

Vick isn't a franchise ruiner.

He may have issues outside the NFL, but I don’t think he was ever considered a huge clubhouse cancer. The guys had a history of winning in the NFL. Vick has a lot more to lose if he messes up than the Rams do.

The falcons were a team built around and dependent on Mike Vick, when they lost him they lost their most important player. The Rams would not have to give much for him, and at worst would lose their stopgap QB.

You can be disappointed that the Rams would sign a guy with a bad history (but remember we still have Leonard Little on the team and the world hasn’t ended), but I don’t see how Vick can ruin a franchise, and there isn’t much to ruin to begin with. We’ve hit rock bottom from a football perspective.

I think Vick has already paid a lot for his crime, and his punishment fit his crime. I’m ready to give him a chance. That being said from a football perspective there are better QBs available, we should aim higher but I’ll take him over Tebow.

by TheBirds on Jan 15, 2010 3:29 AM CST reply actions  

who cares if he paid for his crime...

which was interstate gambling btw…not dog fighting. Look it up. He had ONE good season in AtL (I live here I know) that was all. the dude isnt a good QB. I could care less about his personal stuff. He just isnt even consistently mediocre….48-50% of passes completed for his career…his CAREER people. He would do us no good even as a stop gap. I just dont know why we talk about this.

by Propayne on Jan 15, 2010 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

vick

I could care less about legal issues. He is just a shitty QB.

by illchild on Jan 15, 2010 11:55 AM CST reply actions  

If Tebow was still there in the 4th round,

we should seriously think about him. He is accurate, and he’s a leader. If his mechanics could be fixed, he could turn out to be a solid pro QB. And you know if he was scrambling he wouldn’t slide down one yard short of the first down mark.

by andyrose on Jan 15, 2010 5:58 PM CST reply actions  

Vick

First, I’m not sure I understand how you can compare the numbers Vick and Tebow put up in college and make any type of argument one way or another if the Rams should acquire either of these guys.

Vick’s college numbers (in regards to us signing him) are irrelevant. And if they’re being used to try and figure out Tebow’s success potential, that’s not fair either. They’re two completely different runners. That’d be like comparing Barry Sanders to Christian Okoye. Vick is (was?) a shifty, super fast runner. Tebow is a bulldozer. There’s no comparison.

Anyway, of the two, I prefer Vick because he comes much cheaper. I can see Tebow having a little success in the NFL, but I also see him getting hurt regularly. His style of play (and his ability to throw) doesn’t lend itself too well to longevity in the NFL and if I’m drafting a guy, I want to know that his style of play can either evolve (which I don’t think it can) or be relied upon for the length of the contract and then some (again, I don’t think it can).

So, I go with Vick.

Now, I do have to say (after reading andy’s comment above this one), if Tebow is available in the 4th round (which he won’t be), then I’d be much more inclined to draft him. But, I really don’t see him making it past the 2nd (and I still think he’ll be going in the 1st to Jacksonville which is the only place I would think drafting him in the 1st round is a good idea….and is has nothing to do with his ability to play football well).

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Jan 17, 2010 12:43 PM CST reply actions  

Here's why I used these numbers

What I wanted to do was to compare the college numbers of two dual-threat college QB’s. Yeah, I know that their running styles are different, however, Tebow does have some pretty decent moves on him.

In no way am I using these numbers as an indicator of future success. My goal here was to compare Vick, who is receiving a bunch of talk lately, to kind of a “darkhorse” college QB in Tebow.

More or less, I’m just wanting to see what some of the pro-Vick folks think about Tebow.

Personally, I would rather have Tebow in a later round. Yes he has some things to work on with his delivery, but he has the work ethic to get with his coaches and make changes if that’s what asked of him. Vick on the other hand, had a bit of a problem with not being a team-first guy.

I can not agree with the idea of Jacksonville taking him in the first round. It would be foolish for any team to do that. If they draft him because he’s the local guy who can fill the seats, big mistake! Let’s say they take him in the first and he really doesn’t have it, then they had a flash in the pan that put butts in the bleachers for maybe 2 seasons and they’re in the same predicament as they were before. Just not worth the 1st round, yet.

by Brendan W on Jan 18, 2010 1:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Here's why Jacksonville will take Tebow in the first round.

They don’t have a 2nd round pick. They traded it to New England. Well, during last year’s draft (in the 3rd round) New England traded their 3rd rd pick to New England for Jacksonville’s 2009 7th round pick and 2010 2nd round pick.

So, there’s no way they can/will afford to wait until the supplemental part of the 2nd round (which is their next pick) and hope he’s still available.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Jan 18, 2010 6:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Vick is a joke and the jury has already come to a verdict on him.

He has never thrown for over 3,000 yards in a season, he has started all 16 games once in an 8 year career, his highest completion percentage was 56% (53% for his career) and is a terrible person outside of football (Ron Mexico herpes scandal, tax evasion and killing dogs). Oh, but he can run!? To anyone thinking that this is such a great asset for an NFL QB to have, here is a list of “Dual Threat” QB’s and how pathetic and injury prone they were. Cordell Stewart, Randall Cuntingham, Mike Vick, Fran Tarkenton and these are just the “Dual Threats” that the NFL has made heroes out of. There have been many more that have tried and failed miserably, so I won’t add those. As for reliability, they played only 24 of 52 full seasons. Statistically they weren’t much better as passers, a combined rating of 76.05 with 698 td’s and 503 int’s. The highest combination of all purpose yards (passing/running) from any of these players was 3,600 yards in a season. Most pocket passers do that in their sleep and end up with longer careers, bigger winning percentages and far less games missed due to injuries. The NFL often makes heroes out of these guys due to skin color or excitement but the plain truth is that they are unreliable injury prone, poor passers that don’t win many games as a pro (3 Super Bowls total and Tarkenton lost all 3). As far as the Rams go…drafting Tebow in the late rounds would be fine if they can make him sign something saying he will play TE or H-Back. Pick the guy with the highest scores on the aptitude test and anything else (arm strength, reading defenses…can be developed.

by Everett 11 on Jan 24, 2010 12:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah,

Fran Tarkenton was horrible, it’s not like he’s in the hall of fame.

They call me the cloud, because I make it rain.

by srdmad on Jan 24, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Didn't say that.

He had so so passing numbers, was injury prone and never won the big one. I had to include him because he was the best “Dual Threat” QB ever.

by Everett 11 on Jan 25, 2010 5:50 PM CST up reply actions  

He still got there 3 times,

you have to be good to be able to do that. Your whole comment is about dual threat quarterbacks that were not very good and you put Tarkenton in the same list as Vick, Kordell Stewart, and Randall Cunningham and that is wrong, because Tarkenton is one of the best quarterbacks to ever play.

They call me the cloud, because I make it rain.

by srdmad on Jan 26, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

i realy like tebow, but (4th or 5th) if he make's it past the 2nd.

the patroits have 3, 2nd round pick’s. & brady need’s sum new blood backup, he wont get to the third round.

by wild zion beaver on Feb 4, 2010 4:32 PM CST reply actions  

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