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Of pillars and paucity, part 1 of 2

New York Giants football player Plaxico Burress exits Manhattan criminal court in New York City, March 31.   Burress, Brandon Marshall and Michael Vick form a trio of enticing talents that many teams will be tempted to bring on board for the 2009 NFL season.  Along with that talent, however, is the personalities that consistently put them in a courthouse.

More photos » by Louis Lanzano - AP

New York Giants football player Plaxico Burress exits Manhattan criminal court in New York City, March 31. Burress, Brandon Marshall and Michael Vick form a trio of enticing talents that many teams will be tempted to bring on board for the 2009 NFL season. Along with that talent, however, is the personalities that consistently put them in a courthouse.

  In the last month, the one storyline that has consistently had this community buzzing is "Should we sign 'x'?" In the last month, we've seen a story on Plaxico Burress (by VanRam), one on Brandon Marshall (by DekaJ), and five (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) on Michael Vick. Bryan Burwell, of Post-Dispatch fame, even joined in Wednesday with this piece, suggesting the pillars should be made more of dough and less of concrete.

  While I can understand the uncomfortability many of us feel with the roster and the depth chart as it exists, this seems motivated more out of desperation than acumen.  It seems we have gotten to the point where some of us are willing to sacrifice what integrity this team has for the potential on-field accomplishments of one of these three.  So while I have stayed largely silent throughout these debates, I feel it is time to opine.

  Adding any of these three would wreck everything this team has built in the last five months, and while that may not seem very long, I believe the next 6 years of this franchise are already in place.  Adding Burress, Marshall or Vick would put us on the road to ruin, and I'll offer why I think so after the fold.

Star-divide

You have to look at the entire equation: At what point do the negatives outweigh the positives? - Dan Lebowitz, executive director of Sport in Society

    For those of you who may not be familiar with the "four pillars" of Spagnuolo's approach to heading up the Rams, he laid them out during his first press conference: faith, character, core values and team first.  While I may disagree with the wording (I don't think it's fair to ask people to express faith, if it is in a religious sense, despite my piety.  And what core values?), the essence is simple: no primadonna knuckleheads allowed.  This team is going to be built around adults who can push their egos aside to commit to one another in the pursuit of a singular goal: the Vince Lombardi Trophy.  I think that's something we can all agree on.

  What Burwell touched on in his piece Wednesday is something I agree with: you have to be flexible in building a depth chart to include a variety of characters.  We can't put together a team of bible thumpers, nor a team of good fathers.  We need all kinds of personalities and talents on this team that Coach Spags can mold together into a single force that is capable of succeeding against any team in the NFL.  I'm in total accord with Burwell on this, but not as it applies to Vick, Burress or Marshall.

  Each of these three has a history of misconduct.  They are not "good guys who messed up."  These are adults who habitually engage in behavior that does not comply either with American law, or the common conduct one would expect of a man.

  Michael Vick had his own history.  Of course, it all starts with the company you keep.  In 2004, two of Vick's homeboys were arrested for trafficking marijuana.... in Vick's car.  (That link details some of Vick's accomplices that were with him from day 1 all the way up to the federal RICO case) There was Watchgate, an episode that saw Vick's friend, Quanis Philips (who would later be involved in the dogfighting escapade), steal a security guard's watch at Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.  There were the misadventures of Ron Mexico, a name Vick allegedly used in seeking medical treatment for herpes after (again, allegedly) knowingly passing it on to a "lady friend."  Of course there were the dogs.  Most importantly to me, was that even in the midst of the publicity surrounding his case, Vick still failed a drug test.  This was not a mistake; this was a pattern.

  Plaxico Burress had a string of incidents himself before his most notable incident.  Twice in late 2008, Burress' wife called the cops to break up a domestic disturbance; after both times, a temporary restraining order was issued.  Of course, the most memorable of his "slip-ups" was the "Ouch, I think I shot myself" story from December last year.  There's a couple details I think that are notable from that.  One, Burress took an unregistered Glock into a club.  In fact, Burress had never even applied for a license in New York.  Two, when the cops searched his house, they found a second pistol and a rifle.  He is yet to produce any paperwork that would suggest he owned the firearms legally.  A month after his self-shooting, Burress was in court for a "mix-up" in 2006; a car dealership gave Burress a Chevrolet Avalanche to drive around town and use to attend promotional events for the dealership.  Shockingly, Burress never showed up at any of the events.  The dealership was soon contacted not by Burress, but by the New York Police Department who had just impounded the 'Lanche.  Upon retrieving the vehicle, there was noticeable structural damage that Burress claimed "was only partially his fault."  Of course, there was the car crash Plaxico was involved in just two weeks after shooting himself; Burress was driving without valid insurance at the time.  This isn't an error in judgment, or a night of carelessness.  This is behavior.

  Brandon Marshall similarly has quite a track record.  Because he has such a track record, I would rather summarize with numbered links instead of spelling them out, so here we go.  #1#2#3#4#5#6#7#8#9#10. Suffice to say, Brandon Marshall is just as dependable off the field than on it, although where you can depend on him to succeed on the field, you can depend on him to get in trouble off of it.

  So what if they have a past?  Don't these guys deserve a second chance?  Sure they do.  But they've already had it.  And third chances.  And in Brandon Marshall's case, someone soon will be giving him his 11th chance.  Sure, it's a bit harsh to suggest that someone who had a domestic disupte is being "given a second chance" when he returns to the field, but this is more.  We're talking about players who have strings of problems, patterns of behavior that explicity demonstrate that their personalities create problems.

  If we are to put any stock into what Coach Spagnuolo is preaching, then we can't even consider these three.  It's one thing to give someone a second chance (which I'll address in part two), it's another to allow them to string you along as they destroy their lives and your franchise.  For all our failures on the field, we've remained a well-behaved team.  Even though we have suffered from a paucity of talent, we shouldn't make ourselves suffer from a paucity of principle.

Poll
Can Plaxico Burress, Brandon Marshall and Michael Vick become role models, or are they fated to repeat the errors of their past?
Role models - All three have learned from their mistakes, and I would think they would be eager to prove their critics wrong.
6 votes
One or two of them can be - I think one or two of those three has turned the corner on their past and will be responsible adults as well as incredibly talented football players.
78 votes
History repeats itself - There's a reason they keep landing in hot water. It's who they are. No amount of punishment will ever keep these guys from getting in trouble.
86 votes

170 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs  |  Comment 17 comments |

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A couple other opinions

Mike Sando
Tim Klutsarits
I didn’t read those before writing this, or I would have incorporated their thoughts in there.

Your uncle molests collies.

by 3k on Jun 19, 2009 2:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

young

oj’s in training

by Magyar on Jun 19, 2009 6:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

So Tired

I am so tired of reading these post about coaches 4 pillars….even he said not to be mislead by them. His core responsibilty is to win football games…not build a soft bunch of choir boys. Marshall and Cutler (with a offensive line) rank number 2 in the league in offense without a franchise running back or a solid number two receiver. Plax help both Pitt and NY get deep into playoffs and even help get them a ring. Vick lead a team deep into playoffs without any other star players on offense. These guys can flat out play. If you want to list out a line of faults these guys done you have to do it for every NFL player. Yes….every spoiled, get what I want since the age of 16, rich, fornicating, alcohol drinking individual. Any team following your beliefs in terms of buliding a team will no longer have a franchise to build upon in 10 years max. Dallas Cowboys ran the table without the pillars. The Packer won a ring with a pill popping drama queen at QB, Ravens won with a drug deal running back and a LB who took part in manslaughter. Rams won with a DWI woman runner overer. Pats won with a cheap shot dirty SS in Harrison and damn near went 18-0 with a self centered brat in Randy Moss. Pat also had a coaching staff with less then honset indiviudals to go along with their rings. List out all of your own shortcomings (porn, weed, anger issues, drinking issues…etc) He with no sin throw first stone. You guys are amazing!!! How many player you think beat or cheat on their wives….how many been in a fight in last 5yrs…how many had run in with law ( law the has history at targeting African American). I’m not saying these guys are good guys by no mean…I’m saying that if you only want good guys on your team…..you better try building a choir….but wait….how many of those turn into “bad” priest…..

by RamsMan on Jun 19, 2009 8:42 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well said

+1. However, there is a fine line between respectability and the Cinncinnatica Bengals. Somewhere closer to the respectable line works for me.

by 81 Witness on Jun 19, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

When did I say I wanted choir boys?
What Burwell touched on in his piece Wednesday is something I agree with: you have to be flexible in building a depth chart to include a variety of characters. We can’t put together a team of bible thumpers, nor a team of good fathers.

Did you read what I wrote or the first paragraph?

Your uncle molests collies.

by 3k on Jun 19, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

When I read the first sentence of RamsMan's comment

my first reaction to your question (which I asked myself) was “no, just the first paragraph (or first couple of sentences and this is too long and I already know what this says)”.

I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.

by Tackle Box on Jun 19, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not advocating an unyielding commitment to rhetoric

What I’m suggesting is that in rebuilding this team, we should look to build on intangibles as much as tangibles. Building an atmosphere is as conducive to success as drafting and signing new talent if not more so, given our situation. Signing one of these guys would eradicate the positives of this offseason (which are built around those intangibles) immediately.

Your uncle molests collies.

by 3k on Jun 19, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mind a thought from Denver?
Marshall and Cutler (with a offensive line) rank number 2 in the league in offense without a franchise running back or a solid number two receiver"

We’ve been running numbers for most of the offseason and some of them are interesting as heck. After week 3, Denver’s offense was 27th in the league in points scored. 27th. Frankly, they could rack up yards between the 20s, but not score. We also looked at a lot of film of why, and it wasn’t what any of us thought – poor running game, weak defense, etc? Nope. Just bad performance at important times, and nothing more. You’re right about the O line, though – great bunch of guys.

Part was awful special teams but a lot of it was Marshall and Cutler. As far as a #2 receiver, btw – Eddie Royal had over 90 catches, which isn’t shabby. But Cutler’s QB rating in the red zone was lousy and while he locked on to Marshall a lot (in single coverage most of the time), the connections for money just weren’t there. The playcalling was pretty terrible (Shanahan let Jeremy Bates, the young Q coach call nearly all of the plays), but the rest was the guys we felt were our best players.

I have no idea what they’re going to do with Marshall. He’s a huge talent with incessant problems – attitude, childish behavior and constant public problems being among them. Instead of getting better, he’s doing more of the same. On field, he pouts of he doesn’t get the ball enough and while he blocks like a tight end, he also gets frustrated with a good CB covering him. He’s Jekyll, Hyde and Hyde’s assistant all rolled up in one.

Wherever he goes, I hope he straightens out his life, but he constantly promises that and doesn’t deliver. I have no dislike for him, but I would be open with you – they aren’t likely to trade him very cheap, and with the injury to the hip and the court appearances later this summer, I can’t see anyone paying much for him.

I think that you folks got a great coach in Spags, and I wish you the best of luck in the coming season. Thanks for letting me stop by.

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jun 21, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He’s a huge talent with incessant problems – attitude, childish behavior and constant public problems being among them. Instead of getting better, he’s doing more of the same. On field, he pouts of he doesn’t get the ball enough and while he blocks like a tight end, he also gets frustrated with a good CB covering him. He’s Jekyll, Hyde and Hyde’s assistant all rolled up in one.
I hope he straightens out his life, but he constantly promises that and doesn’t deliver.

So I ask again, why would we want to add a personality this caustic to our locker room?

Your uncle molests collies.

by 3k on Jun 22, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't think of a reason

If we could find a way out of this morass that brought in value he’d be gone before the sun set

Hillis/Moreno in '09

by Emmett Smith on Jun 22, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

most important pillar

to me, the most important aspect of Spags’ pillars is the intent to make sure we have a roster full of guys that put the team and winning first. Yes, players have to think about their careers too, but the bottom line is players who want wins not just stats.

I think there’s some misconceptions out there about just what exactly the pillars thing means. I don’t think it’s about “choir” boys, but, like I said, guys with enough character to not take plays off or start letting things slide when the team isn’t winning games…something that we have seen in the recent past with the Rams.

Turf Show Times

by VanRam on Jun 19, 2009 9:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

AGREED

I am with you 100%…thats why I am confused with what you are suggesting. Vick didn’t “take plays off or start letting things slide when the team isn’t winning games”

Plax played hard every down and same for Marshall.

Now I do think Marshall has had too many chances at life but Plax and Vick….come on….these guys have made mistakes and need a chance at redemption.

by RamsMan on Jun 19, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the problem with off-field behavior

is that it screws the team on the field. Marshall’s issues got him suspended for two games already, and he lied to his team about his broken arm (from the McDonald’s wrapper).

Burress’ off-field stuff last year hurt the Giants too…not in the least because he couldn’t play thanks to a self-inflicted gun shot wound. Those guys may not take plays off, but those kind of hijinx end up costing more in the long run.

Do they deserve a second chance? Absolutely. We all do. There are still a lot of people out there who think Leonard Little got off easy, but the toll on his conscious of killing someone effects him and he’s made the most of his second chance. That’s why I think Vick, of all three of these guys, really does deserve a second chance. He’s paid the debt to society handed out by a jury of his peers. However, he’s just not a natural fit for the Rams needs right now.

Down the road, once this Rams team has the chance to form a cohesive identity, it’ll be much easier to take on a player like Plax or Marshall.

Turf Show Times

by VanRam on Jun 19, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But is this really their second chance?

Or third or fourth?

Your uncle molests collies.

by 3k on Jun 19, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amazing post 3k

I agree with everything.

I have a very, umm...photographic brain. A lot like Ansel Adams but in color and with a lot more, uh.....insertion and pubic hair.

by Tackle Box on Jun 19, 2009 12:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The guys who want to sign these thugs

all seem to take the line that “the end justifies the means”. I hope most of us are beyond that and don’t feel that way.

by andyrose on Jun 19, 2009 4:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The end does justify the means

But if the end is a successful franchise in transition from a culture of losing to a culture of winning, then these are not the means. Signing any of these three would be misidentifying the means, not sacrificing integrity towards the end.

Your uncle molests collies.

by 3k on Jun 19, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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