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Imagine Alex Barron without the penalties

The Rams kicked off a round of OTAs yesterday with penalty prevention 101. It's a much needed course for a team that struggled with penalties on top of their numerous other struggles. A new offense means new snap counts, and learning those will be vital for an offensive line that featured two of the most penalized players in the league in Incognito and Barron. Speaking of penalties and the o-line...

Think about how you'd grade Alex Barron if he didn't incur so many penalties. His value as a player goes way up if he cuts down the number of false starts from say the seven he had last season to just a couple. As it stands now, Barron's an acceptable starter. If he can establish some discipline on the snap counts, he brings even more value. Now, I don't mean to say that with five less false starts Barron's bought his ticket to the Pro Bowl, but with his proclivity to stay healthy, he does become a valuable asset.

As for our other penalty prone lineman, I was ready to dump Incogntio after last season...along with 75% of the roster. Since then emotions have given way to rationality. Incognito plays well in the middle; however, if he can't get over his mental hurdles, the Rams have plenty of options to replace him at guard, especially if some of the more promising undrafted rookie free agents, like Roger Allen and Ray Feinga, sieze their opportunity in camp this year.

Couple items of interest:

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Some clarification

It’s not so much that Tebow has a slow release, it’s that his motion is too long and too deep. If he can fix that and prove he is capable of running an offense under center, albeit a spread offense, it’ll help prove to critics he has the tangibles to go high in the NFL draft…critics like myself.

Your uncle molests collies.

by 3k on May 20, 2009 10:43 AM CDT reply actions  

and, IMO

I’m not entirely sure moving Tebow under center is, as Van suggests, “to help Tim Tebow with his future NFL career.” I think that’s part of Urban’s motivation, but I also think he’s worried about competing in an SEC that has had so much experience against Florida, especially now that he doesn’t have Percy.

Your uncle molests collies.

by 3k on May 21, 2009 4:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

You could be right about that, there was mention in the article that they have more traditional tailbacks now than they did before. But, Meyer’s quotes about “doing right by Tim” I believe are talking about helping his NFL draft prospects as well. Two birds, one stone.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on May 21, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

ALEX

Were go n on 2 how hard is that short bus.Don’t 4 get Florida state players were getting free rides he might have been 1 of them.

by Magyar on May 20, 2009 12:16 PM CDT reply actions  

Great Stat

That’s a telling, yet often overlooked stat. I’m not sure you can extrapolate great play from a subtraction of penalties but you can certainly see where the team was hurt. Don’t forget that injuries and their substitutions have much to do with inconsistant and error-prone line play. I’m pleased with the moves we’ve made on the line this year. No blockbuster names but at least there were some forward progress there and if we average out the penalties we’re bound to improve. This coule be a career year for #39. Oh, and F Peter King.

Lived in LA during the Rams and Raiders days. Now based in NorCal, I am still a die hard Rams fan and Raiders season ticket holder.

by CoachConnors on May 20, 2009 2:23 PM CDT reply actions  

25 yards over the course of a season

I agree that if Barron didn’t have the false start penalties last year, people would not have as negative of an impression of him as they do, but ultimately, 5 fewer false start penalties is only 25 yards (and it’s even better than that considering that you don’t lose the down). If Steven Jackson had run for 25 more yards over the course of last year, it wouldn’t have changed anyone’s opinion of him in the slightest. Just because there are fewer quantitative stats to look at for a lineman doesn’t mean that the ones we do have (such as penalties) are more important.

I’ve done my share of grumbling at stupid false starts (from the Barrons and Fred Millers of the world, in particular), but I think we as fans place too much emphasis on penalties. I don’t have the eye or experience to evaluate a lineman (statistically or from tape), but I find it hard to believe that 5 5-yard penalties makes that big of a difference in value.

by brackenthebox on May 20, 2009 2:57 PM CDT reply actions  

That's an oversimplification

Look up the percentage likelihood of converting a third-and-two versus a third-and-seven. False start penalties kill drives. So that’s five more punts, five quicker possessions for the opposing team, five times our defense has to get up on short rest. These kinds of mistakes are the difference between winning and losing close games. Since the Rams aren’t going to be blowing anyone out, they need to eliminate as many of these mental mistakes as they can. Then maybe we beat Seattle at home, or San Francisco, or Atlanta.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on May 21, 2009 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

since you asked . . .

From http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80ae2bf7&template=with-video&confirm=true
3rd and 2: 52% conversion rate
3rd and 7: 37% conversion rate

Lets pretend all of those false starts came on 3rd and 2 (which is higher leverage than is likely to be true). 2.6 times out of five, the average team converts from 3rd and 2; 1.85 times out of five the average team converts from 3rd and 7. That’s a difference of less than 1 out of 5. It’s not five more punts, etc; it’s one more punt. It’s Steven Jackson dropping an easy 3 yard pass on 3rd and 2, one time in 16 games.

I’m not defending stupid penalties or saying that Barron wouldn’t be better without the penalty proclivities. Player A without penalties is undoubtedly better than Player A with them. But if you’re comparing Player A against Player B (or the rest of the league), a few penalties is unlikely to make a big difference.

by brackenthebox on May 21, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ladies and gentlemen

this is how you discuss an issue. Kudos to Bracken and taiko for elevating TST discourse where I wish it could be for every issue. By the way, my balls itch.

Your uncle molests collies.

by 3k on May 21, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good stats

I’m a little surprised. Of course, those stats are league average, and the Rams were far from league average in third down conversions, but you have opened my eyes a bit.

3k, you have also opened my eyes, and I know with I could weld them shut.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on May 21, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

*now wish

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on May 21, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Part of the problem

with penalties is when they occur. On the surface 25 yards over a 16 game season doesn’t sound like much. But if those extra five penalties manage to come at times that end up killing important drives, then they are more important than it would appear. I’m not sure when all of Barron’s penalties occurred, but I doubt they were all meaningless. He really needs to get his act together this year.

by andyrose on May 20, 2009 4:00 PM CDT reply actions  

Right, and along with killing drives comes killing the emotional momentum and confidence with which they play. Frustration and doubt set in. Don’t underestimate the psychological factor. (A more extreme example would be the kicker who misses a crucial field goal: hey it’s only 3 points, but the miss is going to be on his and everyone else’s mind mind until he makes one).
Typically, lines only do well when they’re disciplined, cohesive units. Get a few subs going in and out and the inconsistancy goes beyond the name on the jersey.

Lived in LA during the Rams and Raiders days. Now based in NorCal, I am still a die hard Rams fan and Raiders season ticket holder.

by CoachConnors on May 20, 2009 6:46 PM CDT reply actions  

If the Rams even think about signing Vick

I will not be happy. Don’t need a guy like him in STL – same with Plax.

Welcome to Baseball Heaven.

by zoomzoomj88 on May 20, 2009 9:24 PM CDT reply actions  

Alex Barron needs to stop the flags

Barron just doesn’t seem to have it. But then again went you have health problems around you on the line you start feeling like you have to do more. I think with the new linemen around him he will do better this year.

by fantasy-info on May 21, 2009 12:24 AM CDT reply actions  

IF OUR RUNNING GAME IMPROVES

I’d be willing to forget a few of the flags. If Bulger gets the protection he needs, then I’d forgive even more. I hope to see both Allen and Feinga and also Trautwein make the squad. If they do, I’d be real happy with our O-line improvements. I didn’t realize how strong Allen is, (38 reps on the bench), and Feinga and Trautwein both have a little nastiness as well as good size and skills. What this means is; we may not have to put up with the flag problem.

by dbcouver on May 22, 2009 1:39 AM CDT reply actions  

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