Chris Long, Mario Williams, and hype
Most people agreed that one of the positive things to come out of the Rams, um, lost season of 2008 was the play of rookie DE Chris Long. However, did Long get higher marks for his inaugural season because of the NFL's notorious hype machine?
KC Joyner, writing over the NY Times Fifth Down blog, sees a disparity between the reviews of Long's rookie season and Mario Williams' rookie season in 2006, which didn't play as well among the critics despite very similar results. It's a valid point. Let's first take a look at the rookie seasons side-by-side.
| Tackles (assists) | Sacks | Pass Def | |
| Long, 2008 | 40 (8) | 4 | 0 |
| Williams, 2006 | 47 (12) | 4.5 | 3 |
Very similar numbers, no? As Joyner points out in his piece, Long tailed off as the season wound down, a not uncommon thing for rookies and something that might have been exacerbated by the inability of the Rams offense to keep the defense off the field. Williams experienced that tail off as well. Long did not record a sack after week 8, and Williams had the last sack of his rookie season in week 9.
Both players spent their rookie season's on pretty inept teams too. Williams was part of the worst defense in the league during his rookie season, when the Texans recorded a 15.5% DVOA. Breaking it down a little further, against the pass Houston had a 23.9% DVOA, 31st, and a 6.5% DVOA against the run, 26th. Last season, the Rams were even worse, recording an overall defensive DVOA of 23.3%, that miraculously was just the 26th worst in the league and a pass defense with 21% DVOA (25th) and a 25.3% (31st) DVOA against the run. Both players' performance undoubtedly suffered some at the hands of their teammates.
Similar situations, similar results. It would be worth while to go back and actually look at what was said about Williams' first season in the league from December of 2006 through the next season's training camp. I do seem to recall a lot of pans for the Texans' first overall pick, but since my LexisNexis password from grad school finally ran out, thorough research is a little tougher than it used to be.
Unfortunately and unfairly for Williams, his reviews had more to do with Rocket Ismail...I mean Reggie Bush, than anything else. Well, that and the expectations that Williams would help right a struggling ship since he was drafted over the most hyped college prospect in a long time.
I also think Long might have received the benefit of hindsight with his reviews, though thinking national pundits can learn from their mistakes might be too generous of an assumption. But, people saw Williams emerge after his rookie season (though people are just now finally starting to question the hype around Bush), restoring the notion of a development curve for defensive linemen in conventional wisdom in the face of blustery prospect reviews.
In the comments below Joyner's post, a couple people brought up race. Only a fool thinks that perceptions of race don't still resonate deeply in throughout our culture; however, in this case I think that's off-base. The NFL hype machine, for its many faults, is more color blind than the rest of society, and has been more than willing to saddle players of all races with unrealistic expectations and hype. More cynically, they give every demographic a bevy of marketable players; a product as big as the NFL can't afford to be selective about who buys tickets and merchandise.
More than anything, I'll always be convinced that Kim Kardashian's boyfriend had more to do with Williams' grades in 2006 than anything else though. Pundits make their living on hype and are ALWAYS reluctant to walk back from the conventional wisdom, no matter how wrong it is, they helped establish. Why else would Brett Favre still dominate headlines, long since removed from his days as the league's best QB?
That still leaves the question as to who's the better player. For two guys drafted where they were, they come with some big expectations for a reason, regardless of who was drafted in the same year. We've compared Williams and Long on more than one occasion at TST. (here's a full list of comments, fanposts, etc. doing just that). I think Williams is probably a better player than Long, though I haven't seen many Houston games (one struggling team at a time, thanks). However, I still think the Rams have a great player and a franchise cornerstone in Long. Thoughts?
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15 comments
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Comments
I've always thought to my self....
that its pointless to draft high on both lines (offense and defence) of the ball.I would of liked to see a more skilled guy come in ohh say at #2 in Sanchez or a Crabtree. When there are soo many veterns in free agency that are at a higher level of skill and experience then most of these guys comeing in. I understand football is a violent game and the average career of a line men is 3-5 years. But now they sign at the same amount of money and only have a collegent track record.But ive been a rams fan for a while and outside of Long, Winstrom and Pace i have no other way to think then perinniale bust.
by Go_Blues on May 17, 2009 1:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Where are you getting that average career
for a lineman number from?
by Toddius on May 17, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to this,
the average career of any nfl player is 3 1/2 seasons.
by Toddius on May 17, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to this,
the shortest careers are of RBs (about 2.57 years), followed by WR (2.81) and CBs (2.94).
by Toddius on May 17, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind with these numbers
those factor in your Oogaboogas – 7th rounders, and UFAs who make a roster here or there. There’s a good dozen people the Rams have signed this offseason that we haven’t even mentioned. Why? There impact is minimal. So these numbers aren’t very accurate when gauging how long a first round player will play in the NFL.
Your uncle molests collies.
by 3k on May 17, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Oogaboogas"
Laughed. Haven’t had a whole lot of those recently.
Secret elixir, huh? Well, I'm usually more of a bourbon guy but when push comes to shove I don't know what the hell's in that either.
by Tackle Box on May 17, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know whether to call him
Oogabooga, Oogabanooga or Hoch bin eier, which in German means “High are eggs”
Your uncle molests collies.
by 3k on May 18, 2009 2:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree with Joyner
Although I believe we have a certain amount of apologists on this blog, I don’t think Vanrams assessment was one of an apologist as joyner indicated. Long was a rookie with a famous last name and no controversial option when he was picked. Like you said Van this game is all hype, especially in the off-season. Longs hype was no more intense than a standard DE picked @ #2. Williams’ was a lot more. But it’s all hype. By definition, no substance.
I’m grateful for the opportunity to correspond about my favorite team on-line but that opportunity comes with a certain amount of rifraf, myself included. That is where this hype comes from, in large part anyway.
by dbcouver on May 17, 2009 4:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A strange, and incomplete take from Joyner.
The reason that Mario Williams got tagged with incendiary reviews after his rookie season was because even before he played a down in the NFL, the consensus was that the Texans had made a mistake in taking him first. The consensus had already pegged Bush going to the Texans. So Williams faced an enormous backlash of negative media stories already prepared. Then Williams proved them wrong.
There was very little backlash against Chris Long largely because there was no consensus of a better player that the Rams should have taken at pick #2.
Then to make his point of the value of “cold-hearted analysis,” Joyner refers to stats that no one else has access to, including the authors of this blog. Where on the wide world of the internet can one find Point-of-Attack block win rate ? Joyner says Long has a 15 win rate, and “for comparison,” offers a completely off-the-point tandem of players for the Miami Dolphins. So, is that good? bad? average? Where’s the upper limit?
Joyner completely fails to bring the analysis full circle. A more thoughtful reporter would have provided us with Mario Williams’ rookie year POA %, his rates from the following year (when he made his breakthrough), and would have cited someone who made the analysis after Williams’ rookie year when all of the negative press was being thrown around.
No, rather he decides to call out a blog post for being bullish on Long’s future, a post looking for a silver lining in Long’s performance in effort to quell a rising tide of negative opinion about the player, some founded, some not. And in so doing, he proudly calls himself “cold hearted” and a superior analyst. Bullshit. Joyner clearly has an axe to grind here.
Essentially, Van has done exactly as Joyner would have seen done for Mario Williams, after Williams’ rookie season — cited analysis as reason for refusing to engage in negative characterization.
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
by taiko on May 18, 2009 1:05 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Seriously….
Very good points. Rec’d.
Secret elixir, huh? Well, I'm usually more of a bourbon guy but when push comes to shove I don't know what the hell's in that either.
by Tackle Box on May 18, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that Mario eventually did come around — proving the naysayers wrong — I think helps prevent some criticism coming Chris Long’s way.
In other words, You bagged on Mario with those stats, and then look how he matured and made you look stupid. Maybe you don’t make that same mistake with Chris Long, who has nearly identical numbers, only 2 years later.
Who’s to say he isn’t the next Mario Williams?
Lived in LA during the Rams and Raiders days. Now based in NorCal, I am still a die hard Rams fan and Raiders season ticket holder.
by CoachConnors on May 20, 2009 7:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Mario Williams
Texans fan here… Mario is a beast and loved in Houston. It was not a popular decision at first but it was the right decision for the Houston Texans. Reggie Bust and Vince (benchwarmer) Young would have been busts in Houston as well. I haven’t watched enough of Chris Long to compare these two but if people are thinking that they can compare the two then that says alot about Chris Long as a player. The one thing that I don’t see mentioned about Mario’s rookie season is the fact that he played with a foot injury for almost the entire season. He had a break-out sophomore season more so because of health than anything. Anyways, good luck with your team and I will keep my eye out for Chris Long and see if he continues to keep getting high remarks.
by wasteph on May 24, 2009 7:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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