Why not?
by Marmie is the best on Apr 30, 2009 12:22 PM CDT
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Print[Note by VanRam, 04/30/09 2:15 PM EDT ] I'm putting this on the front page, because this is an issue worth discussing given our needs at WR.
Why shouldn't the Rams sign Matt Jones or Plaxico Burress? We definitely need some depth at the WR position. Especially Jones who could be signed very cheaply.
Both of those guys have had off the field issues, but Incognito has been in a bar fight, Little's off-field troubles have been well-chronicled, Pisa had some trouble in college, etc. So, these guys off-field troubles should not be that important.
Jones still has the height-speed combination that made him a first round pick and Burress was one of the premiere receivers in the league before the gun incident. With a receieving as weak as the one we have now, either of those guys would be a welcome addition.
Also, if we sign Jones, we could potentially run a crazy offense by either drafting Tebow next year or signing Mike Vick when he gets out of jail. Imagine the possiblilities of having Jones and Vick/Tebow on the field. We could run the option, have either one of them play WR, the possibilities are endless. Bring in Jones, draft Tebow or sign Vick and then bring Martz back and set him loose with the ridiculous talent that we would have. Or heck, just bring all of them in and run double options. Find a defense that could stop that.
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The problem with...
Matt Jones is not only his off the field issues. Even if you ignore those, he has more than enough on the field issues. He has terrible hands and regularly drops passes that any NFL wide receiver should make. Personally, I wouldn’t want Jones on the Rams even if he wasn’t caught with coke.
The issue with Burress is that right now you don’t know the implications of his legal troubles. The charges he is facing carry some pretty serious consequences and he could be looking at some jail time depending on how things go. If the Rams were interested in him, the would definitely need to wait out all of his legal issues and see what happens.
Yup
There’s also the money involved. The Rams will have almost no cap room left after signing the draft class. You could maybe sign Burress for this season on the cheap, taking his legal risk into account, but no way do you get multiple years on the deal. And probably you don’t get him for as cheap as the Rams can afford ($1mm max, is my guess).
Bottom line, though, the Rams just aren’t in a place where these kinds of moves will help the team. A true rebuild is a slow process that requires a disciplined approach. The over-under on the Rams for this year is probably 6 wins at this point. Acquiring Nintendo players that don’t fit the offensive plan is just a waste of money.
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
offensive plan?
whats the offensive plan? not to have a good #1 WR
In a perfect world
we’d have the Larry Fitzgerald, Steven Jackson, Antonio Gates, Anquan Bolden, Roddy White, and Peyton Manning.
It’s not like Devaney and Spags sat down and decided they didn’t need an elite receiver, but with the hand they’re dealt they have to make the moves that make the most sense. At present time, we have talented receivers. Could one of them emerge as a “good #1 WR”? Hell yes. Could they all fail? Yes to that as well. But this offseason, the brass felt it was more important to bolster the line with a bad ass center and the best OT in the draft. Then they felt they needed to protect their QB and RB a little more so they signed Mike Karney and Billy Bajema to block. Then they decided they wanted to improve on the shitty Defense that gave up points by the bucket full by adding a run stuffer to the line, a legit MLB who allows Witherspoon to move to the outside which improves 2 positions at once, sign a proven safety and re-sign our only returning starting CB for a unit that is desperate to find anyone who will live up to some form of their potential.
So, yeah…I guess the “offensive plan” was to not have a “good #1 WR” at the cost of improving about 8 different positions on both sides of the ball.
Did I ever tell you about the time Brasky and I went horseback riding, but there weren't any horses around? Anyway, Brasky throws a saddle on my back and rides me around Wyoming for three days. Well, wouldn't ya know it, my stamina increased with each day, and I develop tremendous leg muscles. So anyway, Brasky decides to enter me into the Breeders Cup under the name Turkish Delight. And Im running in second place, and I'm running, and I break my ankle. So anyway, they're about to shoot me. Then someone from the crowd yells out, God bless him, Dont shoot him, he's a human.
POST
I do believe that the post is about signing a free agent WR as a possible #1 for the rams, not about any off season moves that have already been made. I dont see anyware on here that anyone is asking for an explanation on the rams draft picks or players that were sign. Not that i think these guys are the best candidates but they arent bad either. who knows if we even have the cap room or not but the presence or a veteran WR is not a bad idea. O and by the way dan krieder was one of the best run blockers in the leage we just didnt use him.
So, you asked a question
that you either didn’t want an answer to or wanted an answer but didn’t want it to be based in the real world.
You just wanted to complain that there isn’t a bonafide and established #1 receiver on the team and hopefully you’d find someone who agrees with you. Okay, fair I suppose…
Did I ever tell you about the time Brasky and I went horseback riding, but there weren't any horses around? Anyway, Brasky throws a saddle on my back and rides me around Wyoming for three days. Well, wouldn't ya know it, my stamina increased with each day, and I develop tremendous leg muscles. So anyway, Brasky decides to enter me into the Breeders Cup under the name Turkish Delight. And Im running in second place, and I'm running, and I break my ankle. So anyway, they're about to shoot me. Then someone from the crowd yells out, God bless him, Dont shoot him, he's a human.
I don't think
that Matt Jones has bad hands. He definitely has character issues, but I’ve seen him pull down some ridiculous balls, and he usually is catching it with his hands. One gripe I would have is that sometimes he’ll make a one-handed catch when he could use two – which makes absolutely no sense. I don’t think the Rams sign him or necessarily should, but I disagree with regard to the hands statement.
The stats listed here reflect that he only had 4 drops out of 108 times he was targeted that resulted in an incompletion. Maybe I’m reading that wrong. I’ve read before that people thought his hands weren’t that great, but I’ve never seen that to be the case in action.
That is funny...
My original post had a whole thing about how he always seems to try to catch everything with one hand instead of two but I just deleted it because I wasn’t sure if that was the case or just the games I have seen. I am not a big fan of the “drops” stat because it only counts the drops for a WR when he isn’t contacted at all during the catch. I still count it as a drop if a WR has a step on the defender, reaches out and has it in his hands, and then bobbles it and drops it after the defender wraps up his legs. I don’t mean hard catches but just routine crossing routes and hook routes.
Regardless of his hands, I don’t think any person can argue that Matt Jones is a solid WR.
Counting dropped passes isn't an exact science
The stats at iwon.com give him 5 drops, not four, but both sites fail to define what a “drop” is, compared to other “”http://sports.iwon.com/nfl/stats/league/passesnotcaught.html" >passes not caught." The drop numbers are relatively believable, as they have Braylon Edwards and Terrell Owens, both notoriously careless, atop the leaderboards.
Specifically regarding Jones, I think a lot of the knock against him is that he has never fully used his height advantage. He is supposed to be able to get to balls that other, average receivers can’t. However, he did nothing to distinguish himself from a very bad Jacksonville receiving corps. When he was in the game, he was treated as the #1 receiver last year, but hardly produced like one.
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
Some problems with that argument...
I think the problems with using the examples cited as justification for signing Plaxico or Matt are that a.) all those players are holdovers, and some (if not most of them) will likely not be back after their contracts expire; and b.) it doesn’t account for where the players are now in terms of character. Pisa having some trouble in college does not put him on the same plane as Matt Jones’ recent debacle. Bradley Fletcher’s drinking and driving is a big concern, for example, but the people who know him say that he’s moved beyond that and character is not an issue. I don’t know if you can say the same for Jones, Burress, or Vick.
take it easy
it’s an interesting view point that, while far-fetched, we can debate like adults.
by Ryan Van Bibber on Apr 30, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Never Vick!
Even metioning VIck and the rams in the same sentence, I nearly had a stroke. In with the good air out with the bad….just have to stay calm. I admit that Vick is extermally athletic, but the bottom line is were did he take the falcons. all that talent and all he did is win some games. He is a loser in ever sense of the word. I would rather the Rams have another 2-14 year then put up with Michael Vick. I am not to worried about the Rams offense this year. I will be happy if there are some noticable improvments in the run game, but what I reallyI want to see is a strong defense. I want opposing QB’s and RB’s on their butts in the backfield. I am sick and tired of watching running backs getting 5-6 yards per carry on average when they play the Rams. So far I am happy with how our team drafted, but with all drafts it is wait and see, you cannot rush it, you can only hope in a year or two it will we be proved to be a good to great draft.One last note, I could not stand Martz. I am glad he is gone. Boy do I feel better. Michael Vick…geez!
Matt Jones
Interesting idea but Matt Jones is garbage (cokehead), Burress (shot himself), Vick (scumbag who killed innocent dogs for fun), and Tebow (not an nfl QB). To tell you the truth I wouldn’t want one of these guys on the Rams. I understand Little has had his problems and Ingonito is a baby but we don’t need anymore problems on the team. I’d like to see good quality guys who can play and work hard.
Too Greedy
I think people are getting too greedy. Why do you want to add another receiver? Let’s face it, we are not going to be the offense of the early 2000s. Spags is there to boost the defense and have an offense that can run the clock so that the defense can rest. And Spags and Devaney both said at the press conference that Fletcher’s drunk driving was out of character according to everyone at Iowa, so they are giving him a chance. Burress’ issue is that he has been thru multiple civil lawsuits and makes stupid life decisions and Jones’ issue is that he would rather party rather than committing himself to a sober NFL life (changing lifestyles is very hard for most people). Not looking good for them, and Vick is just not a good guy who keeps surrounding himself with bad influences and at this point in his life, is going to be hard to change is ways.
Conclusion: There is no way they are going to reiterate in every press conference about high character guys and go out and sign all the fuck-ups that have been mentioned already.
Imaging a wide receiver tandem like
Avery and Plaxico, who would complement each other so well, is exciting to think about. Avery with his big play possibility and YAC would, in my opinion, fit perfectly with Plaxico’s size and route running.
My only concern with Plaxico is obviously the pillars that coach Spags is so dedicated to. We signed and drafted high character players so far, so I think that that trend would continue.
We also don’t want a distraction throughout the year. If he has court dates and media constantly following him it would be a burden on the team.
However, maybe because Spags knows Plaxico from coaching on the Giants, he feels that his issue is a one time thing. And he also thinks that Plaxico is a good guy and a good teammate.
I think the only way we would pursue him (this is not even considering about cap space) is if Spags signs off on his character as not an issue. But still thinking about a combo like Avery and Plaxico is exciting!
Might as well draft Lawerence Phillips again
Come on, we have a large hole on the team for a WR, but Matt jones as the answer, I guess he would run fast and straight down the long white lines he dreams about , but not on this team
That's a hell no on Plaxico,
but Jones I would rather have him starting with Avery then any of the other guys we got.
S-St. Louis, R-Rams, D-Dallas, M-Mavericks, A-Arizona, D-Diamondbacks.
Hey he only shot himself lmao
Its not like Plaxico shot up the hole place ,only him self in the leg lol ha ha ha
by james535 on May 1, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I still believe
that something else happened. Why is your finger on a gun that is pointed at yourself?
S-St. Louis, R-Rams, D-Dallas, M-Mavericks, A-Arizona, D-Diamondbacks.
not only that
He has legal issues up the ass… multiple civil lawsuits, stupid citations… the dude just doesn’t understand there are laws and that you can’t do certain things in life
I'm confused
Van, are you still Van?
Jay Zygmunt, now that you have fired yourself, please have yourself hired by Seattle. Thanks.
Laurent Robinson
I’d like to think he is the reason we are not signing a big WR. They probably have hope for him. 6-2, ~200 lbs, and a 4.38 40? I picked him up in fantasy football last year, but he got hurt and never showed anything. So, I’m starting the bandwagon for Robinson. Just to show how dedicated I am, I am going to pick him up on my fantasy football team this year in free agency of course.
VanRAM did you say VICK?????
Let me tell you this ,if Vick every comes to my Rams,i will fly to ST. Louis and stab him in the hart 55 times with an ice pic,end of story
by james535 on Apr 30, 2009 6:57 PM CDT reply actions
Shank 'em
me too
Lived in LA during the Rams and Raiders days. Now based in NorCal, I am still a die hard Rams fan and Raiders season ticket holder.
by CoachConnors on May 1, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Even if
Tebow is a god freak and Vick well is Vick a freak of body and mind……I really wouldn’t mind the team im rooting for to smack those idiots at PETA in their faces.Id buy a #7 FU-PETA jersey.Doesn’t St.Louis already have enough convicted criminals.
I know it appears
we need an experienced wide receiver, and we may still pick one up. Amani Toomer, for instance. But I don’t think Jones and Burress are going to be playing in the NFL this year, and maybe not for a long time. Thinking about the talent of Plaxico running opposite Avery is a fun dream, but he is deep trouble right now.
It’s also fun to think about trading for Boldin, but I don’t see how we could afford him. He is talking about wanting $10 million, and even if he would settle for $7 mill, we still couldn’t afford it.
Aside from maybe picking up a real pro like Toomer, I think we are going with the guys we’ve got for now. It’s gonna take two or three years to undo all the damage Zygmunt did to this team.
just a joke...
While I was not joking about how it would be sweet if signed Burress or Jones, I was joking about the triple option system with Vick/Tebow/Jones. As much fun as it was to talk about at the lunch table, it is completely ridiculous and would never happen. If only Madden let you run that system…
Remember the great 2004 and 2005 Rams teams...
by Marmie is the best on May 1, 2009 9:44 AM CDT reply actions
It's the kind of offense you'd want if you were up against the MonSTARS from Space Jam...
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
this thread has led to a couple permanent rules for TST
Comments discussing the potential of Michael Vick joining the Rams will be mocked. Incessantly.
Comments discussing the potential of Tim Tebow joining the Rams will be ridiculed. Routinely.
And any comments that for whatever ungodly reason make a reference to Space Jam will be wholly disapproved with a stain left forever on the commenter.
Jay Zygmunt, now that you have fired yourself, please have yourself hired by Seattle. Thanks.
by 3k on May 1, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
aww, yer no fun grampa
Pre-dogslaughtering, I could totally see Michael Vick reprising the Michael Jordan role in Space Jam II, the Phantom Menace. Maybe they could still do it, if it was a space prison, and the aliens played for the prison guard team, like The Longest Yard. The only thing is, everyone would root for the warden.
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
Burress is an ass, Jones a future convict
Seriously? No, seriously? Plaxico is not a good fit with who they have there now and would be tantamount to a Terrell Owens type distraction at best, and a Terrell Owens type locker room divider at worst. Matt Jones is destined for prison, he’s not someone you want to trust with an important role. Maybe if he came really cheap he’d be worth a couple of corner-of-the-end-zone jump balls. He’s not exactly in love with the game though, he just does it as a job, and he routinely risks losing his privilige to play it.
Lived in LA during the Rams and Raiders days. Now based in NorCal, I am still a die hard Rams fan and Raiders season ticket holder.
At first I was going to argue...
I thought, calling Plaxico a “Terrell Owens” is pretty bad. But then, I read this:
http://www.bigblueview.com/2009/4/4/822079/bye-bye-plaxico-now-lets-move-on
And yup, you pretty much nailed it.
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
The Rams should go after someone
even if it’s guys like Matt Jones or Plax. They need a WR BAD… they released Holt and Bennett, and now their # 1 is Avery with NO ONE behind him.
Welcome to Baseball Heaven.
Avery was the number 1 even with Holt and Bennett on the roster.
And I’d rather have Keenan Burton and Laurant Robinson behind Avery than Holt and Bennett.
Just because you don’t know who they are doesn’t make them “NO ONE”.
Did I ever tell you about the time Brasky and I went horseback riding, but there weren't any horses around? Anyway, Brasky throws a saddle on my back and rides me around Wyoming for three days. Well, wouldn't ya know it, my stamina increased with each day, and I develop tremendous leg muscles. So anyway, Brasky decides to enter me into the Breeders Cup under the name Turkish Delight. And Im running in second place, and I'm running, and I break my ankle. So anyway, they're about to shoot me. Then someone from the crowd yells out, God bless him, Dont shoot him, he's a human.
We need more but not gonna get it this year..
I think everyone agrees that we are thin at WR… we don’t know what Burton is becuz he was hurt.. Robinson was hurt last year and was labeled as not being tough and was in the doghouse in Atlanta.. I don’t like what we have at depth at WR… But I don’t think Burress or Jones either one are the answer, they are both knuckleheads and we don’t need them on our team..
I would be very happy
to have Holt back on our team if he wanted to be here. He’s still got something left in the tank and could get us the tough yards when we needed them. The void he left is going to be tough to fill.
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