Draft Talk on the Turf

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 2, 2009 10:36 AM CST

I wanted to introduce myself, and the new and improved SBNation Mocking the Draft site, featuring the scouting reports and draft information from Mocking Dan. My name is Jeremy, I go by the name styg50 here on SBnation, and I will be MTD's official correspondent with the fine communities of the NFC West teams, including the Turf.

VanRam has already graciously pledged his support of MTD's efforts to grow, and as part of that effort, I wanted to reach out to this community, with questions about your needs and rosters, the play of your stars and of your so-sos, and hopefully with answers to some of your draft related questions. Mocking Dan knows his stuff, and I will relay your concerns and questions to him in order to facilitate some of the best interwebbery knowledge sharing around. I'm hoping all of you guys will come to be a big part of these efforts, and I hope we all learn something and have some fun with this.

My opening salvo on the rams can be seen here, and I would appreciate any feedback you take the time to give on it. The best part of these posts is the give and take that occurs in the comments, so don't hold back!

To get some of the back and forth started, I'll throw some names out there for things I wouldn't mind seeing for the Rams come draft day. Mocking Dan has already penciled you guys in for taking OT Michael Oher, of Ole Miss, which I can totally get behind. Oher is the real deal, his game is solid top to bottom, and he will quietly be a franchise tackle in the NFL for years to come. Some of you may have questions about QB Ryan Leaf, err, I mean QB Matt Stafford, especially with Detroit trying to squirm out the obvious pick at #1. There are a number of safeties that would help solidify you backfield for years to come, and who could start from day one, including Patrick Chung and Louis Delmas. The depth is in this draft for a top center if you want to target them in the first three rounds, including Alex Mack, and could be a huge first step to regaining offensive dominance in the Spags era.

On the roster front, the one move I am sure of, unconditionally, as an outsider looking in, is that T Alex Barron needs to go. Guys like that drag good teams down, and the oline is one of the few positions that can't compartmentalize his attitude (or lack of attitude really). Spagnuolo needs to purge him via competition, plain and simple.

I will try and respond to everything you guys throw out there, and I am sure a number of questions will crop up from me as well. Thanks again to Van Ram for the hospitality, and I look forward to hearing all your thoughts.

I'll be around.

Poll

What is the highest priority for the Rams in the draft? (Ignoring for now the effects of acquired free agents.)

OT-Barron needs to go and we need the heir apparent to Pace.

15 votes

QB-Stafford may be a risk, but nothing risked, nothing gained.

0 votes

Defense-Even if it isn't the first round choice, no area needs more help.

12 votes

Forget positions-this team needs an infusion of attitude and character, to develop what we already have.

11 votes

38 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 32 comments | 0 recs |

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Comments

Hmm.... I kinda jumped the gun on that vote.

Personally, I didn’t like my options so I guess I just read the last option how I wanted to read it. I agree that Barron has issues, but I don’t think they can simply cut him right now. They might need to hold on to him one more year, especially since they’re getting a new center and might be dropping Incognito. I’m not sure they’ve got it in them to dump Barron as well, considering he was our best O-lineman last year (and that sure is saying something, isn’t it?)

So, at first glance I read the last option as needing more attitude and character on the roster and at second glance I think you mean in the coaching staff and front office assuming we have awesome players already in place. And, while we do have a few, the others are pretty damn bad…

A teenage boy with a sprit inside
Of a Samurai warrior who long ago died.
Now he's O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
O....O....O....O Oshikuru!
My oh My he's a demon Samurai
Who's the guy who had to die.......Oshikuru!

by Tackle Box on Feb 2, 2009 11:17 AM CST reply actions

true

I put a fish hook on the tackle vote, making it a two edged vote.

Between Icognito and Barron you think that the team is preferring to drop Incognito? Is this from any kind of source? I would understand if they did, but I really believe that sticking with Incognito might be the sounder approach. Mental mistakes can be addressed, and just cutting down on penalties would be huge for Cogs. But can mental attitude be addressed?

Here is my dillema: I really think you guys can get a great center in any of the first three rounds. With that kind of flexibility, its darn near a given. (Your comment suggests that a new center is as good as done, do you have the replacement in mind already?) If you get that center, and it nets an overall improvement, then it would be nice to have the strongside running game come in strong. What has to happen for Barron to solidify that concern? Is it improvement in his game you are looking for, or does the coaching staff need to use him better?

Regarding the last option, what I had in mind was that the Rams don’t need any flash in this draft. They need high character, highly motivated guys in the positions that don’t receive a lot of glory, like T, C, S maybe DT, and definitely depth for when starters come out. I wish I could edit polls so I could leave that development bit off the last one…probably not a good idea to be able to edit polls though :)… I look around at the Rams and I just don’t see any five alarm fires on the roster by position, so I start to question the ethic of the guys who DIDN’T get injured, like Barron. Also regarding Barron, I advocate a competition purge, that is, draft heir apparent to Pace, and see if he can raise the play of the line by competing for RT. What would you think if Barron were a backup? Maybe that would help his development?

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 2, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions

I don't have a problem with Barron being a backup

if he gets beat out. And for the record, I want them to draft Andre Smith with the 2nd pick (but I’d be fine enough with Oher), so I’m definitely in the “draft a tackle with the first pick” crowd.

As far as Incognito, maybe being away from the local media masked some of the issues the team and coaches had with Little Richie last year. If he wasn’t going out of his way to insult the fans (and then lie about it when there’s a photograph on the front page of the Post-Dispatch), then he was taking himself out of games and eating candy bars on the sidelines. The guy is really talented, but he just doesn’t get it and I’m not sure he ever will. It’s unfortunate since I think he’s the most talented lineman on the team, but he’s as big of a blockhead as I’ve ever seen and he doesn’t seem to care about how is actions look or affect the team.

I honestly think he came real close to getting kicked off the team in the middle of the season. If the team’s situation on the line weren’t so void of depth, I really believe he would have been sent packing. But, we’ve got a new sheriff in town, so maybe BDR just bought himself another chance.

Also, as far as center, well….yeah, there better be a new one next year since we really don’t have one. The two guys that played center this year, Nick Leckey and Brett Romberg, caused more problems on the line due to lack of ability or size than anything else. Romberg was better, but improving over Leckey wasn’t that difficult to accomplish.

Honestly, a lot of us here suspected the play of our centers was a major contributor to the poor play of the line as a whole. You basically had Jacob Bell and Incognito playing 1 1/2 positions every play to make up for the center not being able to do much of anything outside of playing the part of a speed bump at Daytona International Speedway. A lot of the sacks and pressure defenses put on the Rams came right up the middle. You’re supposed to have 3 guys in there and the Rams had basically 2 since the center was completely ineffective. Then, if you have Bell and Incognito cheating and focusing inside every play, this puts Pace and Barron even more on an island each play.

So, they have to get a legitimate center. I don’t need a game breaker (but that’d be nice too) or anything, just someone competent who can allow the rest of the line to focus on their own assignments.

by Tackle Box on Feb 2, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions

Great info on cogs

I had no idea, and I see him in a totally different light now. I almost feel like I have the characters of Cogs and Barron reversed a little.

I agree 100% on the center issues. So critical. How much zone and trap type stuff do you run? That usually hides the center defect on pulling strongside type plays, but exposes it pulling weakside. I wonder, because it could possibly make it an even more critical consideration. Offhand I am going to say that if it is that serious, I think free agency might be the way to go, but outside of Birk in Minnesota (stud) and Saturday from Indy(undersized adn a likely a keeper for the colts) I have no idea who else is available. It may simply not be an option. Outside of Mack, Unger and Luigs in the draft, I don’t think there are any day one starters (at least that you could count on starting), but now you are talking #2 pick at worst, but defintiely your #3 pick at best…

What would you think of #1: OT, #2: Safety/LB #3: C?? It would seem strange to target Oline so heavily in the first three rounds, given the defensive performance, and Spagnuolo as the new head coach (although I will be the first to acknowledge that as head coach he is neither O nor D, he is HEAD coach)…. But a great offense can do wonders for a mediocre defense, and vice versa… The team would actually be kind of recognizable to outsiders however. :)

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 2, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions

"How much zone and trap type stuff do you run? "

Who knows? With a completely new coaching staff, I wouldn’t know where to start to make a guess.

As far as OT, S/LB, C? I don’t know. I guess it all depends on if they get a center from free agency. I’d prefer not to spend that much focus on the line with 2 of our top 3 picks, but it is a pretty important aspect of the team’s success. We need a lot on defense too. But, once again, that sorta depends on free agency too.

by Tackle Box on Feb 2, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions

Also depends on what LB is available in round 2

I could see us grabbing one of the safeties though. Any safety would be an immediate improvement at SS.

Jay Zygmunt, now that you have fired yourself, please have yourself hired by Seattle. Thanks.

by 3k on Feb 2, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions

And therein lies the problem

We’ve got at least 2, maybe 3, positions where just about anyone is an upgrade.

What to do……

by Tackle Box on Feb 2, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions

problem = draft flexibility

Yes, we definitely need upgrades at C, LB, and S, and a long-term solution at OT as well. I think this makes the draft strategy fairly simple — just take the best guy who’s available when it’s our turn to select. We cannot address all our needs in one draft, so then we should go for the best quality at each spot. OT looks like the best option in round 1 (though I’m sure they will look at trading down 4-6 spots if they can, since that would let them still get one of the top OT’s plus extra picks). After that you just see who drops. If Mack is there at the top of round two then he’d be a solid choice, presumably locking up the center spot for years to come.

by apack on Feb 3, 2009 11:26 PM CST up reply actions

If that's your strategy

then it’d be real tough to pass up Michael Crabtree.

by Tackle Box on Feb 4, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions

Boo

I agree 100% with this assessment:

the Rams don’t need any flash in this draft. They need high character, highly motivated guys in the positions that don’t receive a lot of glory, like T, C, S maybe DT, and definitely depth for when starters come out.

We can’t distract ourselves with shiny baubles like Crabtree. We just don’t have the core to be thinking about reloading the Greatest Show in this draft.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on Feb 4, 2009 1:16 PM CST up reply actions

I'm not saying we should or shouldn't

I’m just saying, if your strategy is to get the best available talent at any particular spot, then at number 2 Crabtree is probably the best talent.

by Tackle Box on Feb 4, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions

Incognito vs Barron

I think you’re on to something, though, with your assessment of Barron. The team already lacks an emotional leader, as Bulger has been battered into submission and was already a pretty meek guy before that. The worst enemy of a team trying to turn itself around is apathy. And while I don’t have inside-the-locker-room knowledge, Barron could be a difficult case to turn around.

Compare this to a guy like Incognito — who was a seventh-round choice and is one of the fiercest blockers on the team, but who has always had discipline issues — and you may be able to steer his energy a little better. But I draw the line at making a guy like this our center – we need a true blue C on this team.

The overriding problem with Richie is unpopularity with the fans, but I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in that. Just a few years ago, the fan base was ready to tar and feather Leonard Little after his DUIs. By comparison, the consternation with Incognito looks pretty pale.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on Feb 4, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions

DUI

he only got one.

And I have a hard time comparing a DUI that results in the death of a mother of 2 or 3 children to a dipshit taunting the fans like a big retard.

Anyway, I think some here actually thought a move back to center would help Incognito. It gives him more responsibility and things to do which requires more of his concentration keeping him from going all retard again.

I don’t know. What I do know is that Haslett had had enough of him last year and Linehan didn’t have it in him to do anything about it when he was here like Haslett did. Who knows what Spags has in mind for the special guy, but I have a feeling he’ll be on the team this coming season.

by Tackle Box on Feb 4, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions

and I'm glad

I really think with a new staff in place and (hopefully) a young center we can depend on, Incognito will have his rattled could turn into a fan favorite. His energy is just misplaced; if the staff can channel that, he could be a high-energy guy that fans could rally around and use this last year as a “See how bad the Linehan era was?” type motivator.

Jay Zygmunt, now that you have fired yourself, please have yourself hired by Seattle. Thanks.

by 3k on Feb 4, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions

This is starting to make more sense to me now

I do feel like Barron might be what VanRam called in an earlier post “a coach killer” (Shula’s terminology). There is at least 3 guaranteed shots to put him behind you guys in the first round alone, and the Rams can have any one of the three guys that they desire.

And Barron doesn’t have to be cut for this all to come down. He would probably make a STELLAR backup, and you can’t have enough depth on the Oline going into 09…

PS. Whats the over/under on length of Pace’s career?

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 6, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions

tough to say

He’s still productive, but one more serious injury and I figure he has to hang em up. I’ll say 2 seasons, but by the middle of the second, he won’t be on the field.

Jay Zygmunt, now that you have fired yourself, please have yourself hired by Seattle. Thanks.

by 3k on Feb 6, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions

I'm not making light of a DUI manslaughter

I’m saying that you should put no stock in fan fervor when making personnel decisions. Leonard Little is the worst case scenario in terms of local controversy. Incognito’s relative unpopularity for his incident is insignificant.

Also, facts being facts, he was arrested twice for DUI. First in 1998, second in 2004.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on Feb 4, 2009 11:19 PM CST up reply actions

Then we're splitting hairs

He was acquitted of DUI on the second arrest and was convicted of misdemeanor speeding.

by Tackle Box on Feb 5, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions

"Even if it isn't the first round choice, no area needs more help."

I liked that reasoning. If there was no explaination after the choice I would have said OT, because a great left tackle does wonders for a team, but after reading the explainations I would have to say defense , we need a linebacker, cornerback, and safety. With the offense, we okay or good, at quarterback, runningback, wide receiver and tight end, leaving our many holed offenisve line as the only thing needed, but you could say that we need upgrades at almost all of the line spots.

But like I said before free agency changes things, which is why I don’t to into mock drafts until after free agency. Twenty five more days, I’m doing my own countdown.

I have witnessed time and time again.

by srdmad on Feb 2, 2009 1:35 PM CST reply actions

I knew my poll sucked

I always make choices that are only half right. But I keep making them anyway…

I don’t dig mocks that much myself, especially early ones. The other thing I can’t hardly fathom is ranking players by the round they will likely go in. I think the two ideas pretty much go hand in hand, since the round projection translates directly to setting up a mock…

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 2, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions

Here is a thought on OT at #2

From a cap perspective, no need allows greater leverage to the Rams. They can get a cap and team friendly contract hashed out early, and can run it by any of the top 3 guys, all of whom would be good fits. There is a limit to what they can get away with regarding the signing bonus, but there looks to be a seachange brewing regarding the way rookie contracts are handled, anyways, in conjunction with whatever new cap rules come out of this uncapped brouhaha. Devaney could be a key catalyst in promoting the ethics of that seachange, a move from arbitrary contract inflation to the sanity of rookie caps…

To me one of the most overlooked components of a draft is how much leverage teams have with their picks.

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 6, 2009 12:41 PM CST reply actions 2 recs

rec’d

Jay Zygmunt, now that you have fired yourself, please have yourself hired by Seattle. Thanks.

by 3k on Feb 6, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions

And another thing

For those that are in the Michael Crabteee camp, with looking at the current cap situation I’m not so sure they could realistically afford drafting him knowing it’s almost imperative they get all of their draftees signed as well as at least one free agent that will start somewhere.

Btw, I’m also going to ‘rec’ that comment. Partly because it took me two readings to understand it, partly because I think it’s a really well thought out idea/comment, and partly because I learned a new word…….“seachange”.

by Tackle Box on Feb 6, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions

Thanks for the green!

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 6, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions

it was well deserved

Jay Zygmunt, now that you have fired yourself, please have yourself hired by Seattle. Thanks.

by 3k on Feb 6, 2009 7:04 PM CST up reply actions

The recession has even hit the blogosphere

I could have sworn it took 5 ‘recs’ to get a green label. Now it’s only 2!?!

by Tackle Box on Feb 7, 2009 12:54 AM CST up reply actions

I think it is up to the guy running the site...

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 7, 2009 1:16 AM CST up reply actions

and your credit score…

Jay Zygmunt, now that you have fired yourself, please have yourself hired by Seattle. Thanks.

by 3k on Feb 7, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions

"Sea Change" is also a great album

Listen if you like “sad bastard” music, as my wife calls it. It’s Beck’s entry into the Nick Drake / Elliot Smith / Ricky Nelson genre.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on Feb 9, 2009 9:54 AM CST up reply actions

Great perspective

Glad to have you aboard these discussions. Picking an OT first just makes the most sense – even if it’s a bit of a vanilla choice, it is the safest course for the franchise. And as you say, the economics work better as well.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on Feb 9, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions

regarding vanilla

I really thought vanilla would apply to Ryan Clady out of Boise State last year for Denver, and I was completely WRONG…

Clady made a case for himself for rookie of the year (no chance in hell, of course, but it was fun to make a case for him), and anchored a line that was on the verge of history for both sacks allowed and sacks per attempt, with Clady allowing zero and only committing 4 penalties all year. He made it fun to watch the oline again! After the season the fans had fun putting together an “Elect Clady to the Probowl” campaign, to no avail.

The trick is finding something to talk about with an OT pick during the initial offseason… :)

Concision in style, precision in thought, decision in life.

by Jeremy Bolander on Feb 10, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions

Figured

this is a place I should post about the Draft. I did not read anything above, so no yelling, if someone addressed the issue. If the Titans will trade Holt for a 1st rd pick, could the Horny ones snag Crap-tree with the second pick (unless Lions do it again….), then take Maualuga with the Titans’ pick? Can Rey even survive that far in the draft? In the second rd the rams can then grab an OT, if a decent one is available

"I always think one step ahead, like a carpenter....the builds stairs"

by sergey606 on Feb 20, 2009 12:28 AM CST reply actions