Incognito finished as a Ram?
The quarterback question facing the St. Louis Rams for the remainder of the season is open for discussion, so let's get to the other hot button issue facing the Rams: Richie Incognito.
To bench or not to bench...
Incredibly, the hot headed guard committed two personal foul penalties yesterday. He lost his cool in what was a chippy, physical game. It's tough to look at this game and the image of Incognito jawing with Spagnuolo on the sidelines, giving his coach the old "not my fault" rejoinder and not think that the guy should spend some time on the bench. After all, this isn't the first incident of this kind for Cogs, hell, it's not even the first game of the season in which he had two personal foul penalties. Not that the Rams would have scored points anyway, but his penalties yesterday were drive killers.
Now, the other side of the coin. We mentioned Incognito's other game this season in which he collected two personal foul flags; it was the season opener in Seattle. He spent a little time on the bench during that game and some time reflecting with the coach in the days after. Fans, myself included, were ready for his head on a platter. But, he managed somehow to get it together and became one of the team's better blockers.
Spagnuolo has some sliver of his reputation on the line with this week's decision on Incognito. Bernie Miklasz from the PD took both player and coach to task today.
Here’s the deal: Spagnuolo stood by Incognito early this season when Incognito pulled the same kind of stuff at Seattle. Spagnuolo took the hit from fans and media by giving Incognito another chance and by, in so many words, defending him. And how did Incognito repay Spags for that?
Why would Spagnuolo (and GM Billy Devaney) believe they can win with with this guy?
Because of Incognito, Spagnuolo comes across as a weak guy who can be taken advantage of by players.
Without a doubt, Cogs' move was a blow to Spags, but Miklasz ignores the results the Rams head coach got from his starting right guard after the week one incident. So, in the wake of the first incident Spags didn't come across as weak, he came across as right. Now, after weeks of solid play and a few weeks on the sidelines with a foot injury, Spags has to make this decision again.
Miklasz is being short-sighted, forgetting what happened with Incognito after week one, but he's absolutely right in that there has to be some accountability for the guard now. Though the Jacob Bell injury situation might impact the decision to bench Cogs, it's worth remembering as we start planning for the 2010 season that during Adam Goldberg's time filling in for Incognito the Rams lost nothing in performance from that position. The troubled guard may be talented but he's not irreplaceable.
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He shouldn't play another down for the Rams
We had a rookie QB who was putting up a ok effort and Incognito destroyed 2 drives and cries wolf.
I’m extremely tired of his act and I can imagine what his teammates think of him.
What does he bring to the team at this point?
Intensity? Blocking skills? The Bryan Cox back pad?
Regardless of which answer I or anyone else chooses, the value of any of those at this point is irrelevant, save for maybe the back pad. While we rightly focus on his bonehead-ery, I’d just like to make sure we recognize that what he brings to the table isn’t all that useful right now.
You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.
Apparently
when he has downtime, his bonehead-ery comes back to the surface. It seemed to have been quelled, but apparently continuing to watch your team lose and not being able to contribute to the downfall takes its toll.
I did vote to play him, but there’s not really a choice with as many injuries as this team has incurred.
If the rest of the team could take some of his energy and distribute it, I think we’d have a very competitive football team. And maybe it would take him down just enough to keep his energy between the whistles.
THIS year's the year. I hope....
While I think he's done (I was rooting for him to stop being stupid, but oh well), let's face it
He is a good blocker, albeit stupid, and the Rams aren’t going anywhere this season. Give Greco some playing time and let Cogs play. No sense in getting Null hurt.
I believe in 2010
Ya know, I have been extremely harsh with this big buffoon...
But the more I think about it, maybe he has something 51 other Rams, especially Alex Barron, don’t have. That’s emotion, intensity, anger, frustration and a gut sickness for being the laughing stock of the NFL. If I were 1-12, I think I’d wanna head-butt somebody too. I remember how I used to watch Bulger walk off the field after tossing a game losing interception looking just like he didn’t have a care in the world. Or Spags clapping his hands in the 4th quarter when we’re down by 30 points. Maybe we need more fiery players (and coaches) instead of “pillars.”
I happen to agree with edpjr, but...
Find a way to channel that “justified” frustration to something more constructive. It must be hell having to play through a season like this year. But, he makes a lot of money and he just needs to nut up and be a leader pushing through for next season.
by BatteringRam on Dec 14, 2009 8:14 PM CST up reply actions
much easier said than done.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
I agree with you to a point
I like Richie’s energy, his burn to play. And to be honest, I don’t think much of calling personal fouls on head-butts — not when the heads in question are both armored and padded. It’s a BS penalty, but the problem is not the penalty — it’s the situational awareness. If it was just one penalty, I could write it off. But after having been yanked off the field, jawed at by his coach, to go out there and do it again just three drives later? That’s inexcusable. That’s a player putting himself ahead of the team.
Ever since Faulk left the field, the Rams have taken a major step down in terms of on-field smarts. We can’t afford to keep putting the dumbest players in a position where they can be baited so easily into hurting our team.
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Personally, I didn't see exactly what he did wrong on the 2nd play.
Now, I was watching at an “establishment” and they didn’t have the sound for the Rams game………I saw that the hit was after the running back hit the ground and I assume the whistle blew. But, there wasn’t that much time that had elapsed and he was kind of picking himself up off the ground to throw the block when the running back fell down.
It looked to me like any play that you see every day, but he’s targeted by the referees (and I really believe that he is) so they flagged him.
I didn’t like the head-butt and felt that was a legit 15 yarder, but the “late hit” was not only questionable, but wasn’t dangerous nor an example of Incognito being out of control. Shit, he had gotten knocked down in the open field and was getting back up to block the guy who he thought was still chasing the running back.
When I saw the ref give him the penalty, I was ready to BBQ him, but after I saw the play, I thought it was complete BS.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
I agree with you too.
Firstly, we have to recognize that with Bell going down for the season, we simply don’t have enough linemen so Incognito has to play.
But outside of that, I’d like to point out that he kept his nose clean (on the field and in the papers) until this past weekend. Were we all supposed to think that he was cured forever? He was going to have a relapse and standing on the sideline might have been what triggered this behavior like edpjr just said.
Is it acceptable? No. And if it were a guy like Barron, it’d be a no-brainer decision (well, after the season…) but to think that Spags was going to solve Incognito after their first “talk” is un-realistic and, in my opinion, unfair to Spags.
What I look at is 13 weeks of keeping his name out of the paper. That’s a major accomplishment. Maybe, after this episode, we can hope to see a full season, or two full seasons?
If he’d have had his 2nd blowup in Week 3 or 4 or 5, then yeah, I’d say boot his ass. But having had this much time between the two, I think at least, is a good sign.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
its amazing how i always seem to agree with your assesments edpjr, as far as richie goes i can see where his frustration level has got to be outta this world and hey after 13 weeks or so of playing good and penalty free he finally had another melt down, it happens i also wish the rest of the team had some fire.Its funny you speak of Bulger walking off after losing like it was no big deal, I remember when he first took over from Kurt when in an interview he told the reporter that he only played football to make his dad happy because he personally didn’t really care for it but his dad loved it, well it showed many times thru his career and the rest of this team seems to have that same sorry ass attitude, its all about the money and thats it
If practice makes perfect....
Yet nobodies perfect.....
Then why practice ???
Btw I misread the poll question
and voted no. Then I read the explanations and realized I voted for the wrong one. So move one vote for don’t bench to one vote to bench. Sorry for corrupting the poll results.
Can't think of a good sig
Greco and Stetterstrom need some consistent playing time. It’s time to evaluate your assets Spags, who is going to be around next year and who needs to clean their locker?
But not only is Incognito pretty much the same age as those two.
he’s also much better.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
im torn on this one
if we were a better team id say get rid of him because his penalty’s take us out of the game if you really are worried about this guys attitude did you see the scoreboard? What Ritchie needs to do is learn to sh!t talk better. Let the other guy start the confrontation and headbutt you so you can push him and throw him because the other guys did that to Ritchie. Still think he’s a very talented football player with that fire spags is looking for. Just tone it down because the Pillars are going to collapse.
by keeperskillz24 on Dec 14, 2009 10:21 PM CST reply actions
What sucks the most about our O-Line situation is
With Incognito acting up again, and with Barron being Barron, if the Rams choose to cut both players, that’s two starters gone from our O-Line.
Even if we move Jason Smith to LT, and give Goldberg the RT spot, we still need a new starting RG, not to mention we lose our super-sub in Goldberg.
Our young O-Line was supposed to be our most promising unit this year, and it’s just sad that the Rams will have to once again target the O-Line either in the draft or in FA.
Weak Ram Fans are kiiling the team
I agree with jb22 for the most part. We should let Barron test the free agent market and he will receive offers but limited ones at that. We should keep Incognito and give him a 3 to 4 year contract. He has proven both to be a very good player that the Rams need but has some issues that are correctable. However, we have too many weak Ram fans that want all our players to be choir boys and do not understand the game of football. They (the weak Ram fans) are killing this team. And if Barron does nopt receive ANY offers, we give him a 2 year league minimum contract and use him as a back-up, plus could to draft O-line to improve our team. And maybe in 2 to 3 years of good drafting, we might have a team that will win on a regular basis.
I agree
with what your saying and it will happen. But i don’t think the weak fans are killing this team. Ritchie being let go had nothing to do with the fans. I’m guessing by what you mean is non supportive fans? Evrey Ram fan i know and especially on this forum still loves the rams, i dont think that is an issue.
by keeperskillz24 on Dec 17, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
Close
I believe you have most of it. I am talking about the same “fans” who threw Kurt Warner out of town, bashed Martz for his “timeout” problems, do not like Chris Long because he hasn’t had 22 sacks in his first 2 seasons, kick Carriker because he is hurt from playing on a D-line that needs more talent….etc…etc…etc. Would those losers please go home.
Thoses are the weak Ran fans that I am talking about. In most cities, if you have a fair weather team fan, they keep their mouth shut during the down years and cheer in the up years. St. Louis has too many fair weather fans who open their mouth and who think they know what they are talking about. If so, quit your job and get an NFL executive position.
Please quit driving the media to write about the can’t and write about the can. And quit driving good players out of town. No wonder the Rams lack talent, I wouldn’t want to play in a town and has a bunch of weak minded losers cheering against me.
Give the new regime some time fellow Rams fans
They drafted well the last couple of years, but it will take at least 2 more good drafts to field a competitive team. Some time soon the Rams will have to receive a year of minimal injuries.
I say trade SJax while his value is high and bring in more top young talent. The 2010 draft will be deep so get rid of guys who are eating up cap space, injury prone or not really interested in getting better at football (Barron and Bulger). Trade our star vets (er I should say vet to be accurate) for young studs who are more cap friendly and eager to play on a rebuilding team. SJax deserves better and the Rams need as many building blocks as possible. This grabbing guys off practice squads every week is getting ridiculous.
Go Rams!
by Xandac on Dec 15, 2009 9:34 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
As for Incognito ...
I say keep the guy. He has talent and HE PLAYS HARD ALL OF THE TIME. Imagine that Barron! He just needs someone to stay on him about playing smart. If the Rams were winning, he probably would not get so many penalties.
"If the Rams were winning, he probably would not get so many penalties."
very good point. Unfortunately we haven’t been able to test that hypothesis…..
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
I'd be easy on him
I don’t think Richie had a lot of cool to lose. He’s always been a loose cannon, and always been one ugly play away from suspension.
Having dealt with talnted hotheads on occassion, I would be a little reluctant to do too much with the on field actions. A 1 game suspension? Maybe. You don’t to dampen the fight in the dog, but need him to find legal ways to let it out, that’s all.
Football is a very violent game. You get some guys drawn to it that are a little unleashed sometimes. Its not ballet, these are not bellerinas. You don’t ignore it, but you deal with that as a coach.
If he hurt the team so as to lose a game, then you’d have to really do something, but if the game result didn’t cost much more than a Barron bonehead play, then you can be diplomatic to a certain extent.
The jawwing at the coach however, is something else. That’s even stupider than a headbutt. If he doesn’t understand he needs the coach on his side we could have a serious breakdown. That might get the bigger penalty in terms of suspension or whatever. From me it probably would. That’s just me though, I don’t play that.
by CoachConnors on Dec 15, 2009 12:51 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Has anyone kept track at the Number of Personal Fouls Incognito has made during his Career?
One of the big downsides of his temper that draws personal fouls is that it can be a hugh ‘momentum killer’ just like this past Sunday. Null & company was worked the ball up the field only to be handed a 15 yard penalty.
I’m sorry, but enough is enough. I don’t care how great a player he is (is he even among the top 10 tackles in the League?) I’m getting tired of him causing set backs. It’s time to move on…could we even get a good trade for him? Cincinnati Bengals might trade for him, they seem to like ‘bad boys’.
Go Rams!
"We can't run. We can't pass. We can't stop the run. We can't stop the pass. We can't kick. Other than that, we're just not a very good football team right now." --- Bruce Coslett, New York Jets Head Coach circa 1990s
Coach should play Cogs
Cogs lost control in the first game and coach kept him under control until this last game. in the games he’s played, he’s played well (imo) and is our best option at RG, but he does need to be strainghtened out by Coach Spags. the coach really needs to get in this guys head and teach him to act professional. but i like his intensity and would love to see all the linemen play with the same fire that Cogs plays with, minus the bone headed breakdowns.
"SJAX" - The extra strength cleaner that fights off that Stubborn, Stingy Defense

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