Ndamukong Suh vs. Gerald McCoy

by jb22 on Nov 9, 2009 4:40 PM CST Comment 16 comments

A little early to be getting too in depth about the draft, I know. I just wanted to throw this out there and see what you guys think. I know most of you believe Suh is the clear choice, but I'm not so sure. I have some concerns with Suh.

I think he relies a little too much on his size/athleticism. This might work in college, but it will not in the NFL. He's only 300 pounds, which in NFL DT terms doesn't exactly make him a behemoth. (For example, I think Clifton Ryan is 320 pounds). I don't know that he'll be able to just lean on the O-Line and bat down passes as easily in the NFL. If you watch him play (I'm talking entire games, not highlight reels), he doesn't really have a lot of technique/pass rushing skills. Too many college players rely too much on athleticism/motor and they really pay for a lack of technique when they enter the NFL. (Just ask Chris Long. Remember his senior year at Virginia? Absolute monster)

Also, when you watch entire games, you begin to notice that Suh doesn't exactly get great leverage. Surprisingly, there are a lot of plays where Suh just gets pushed/lifted back. I know he can't have a sack on every play, but it was surprising to see that happen a lot more than I expected.

Gerald McCoy is a viable option IMO. He's very athletic, and more importantly, has a nice set of pass rushing skills. Technique always translates much better than pure size/strength. McCoy would be great at the 3-technique for the Rams. I think he could really upgrade the pass rush, although he might lack a bit against the run, seeing as how hes under 300 pounds.

I guess it just depends on what the Rams want from the DT position. If they're aiming to upgrade the run D, I guess Suh would be the better pick, McCoy for the pass rush. Not saying one is better than the other, just wanted to see what you guys think.

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A little off topic for this particular discussion, but

I’ve been curious to know what the general consensus is on Taylor Mays. To me he looks like a superstar in the NFL, but I’m far from being an NFL scout, anyone else have any thoughts on him?

by bdemartin on Nov 9, 2009 6:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Mays

Mays is a better athlete than a football player. He’s basically Calvin Johnson playing safety but he plays like former cowboys safety roy Williams. He plays the run well but can’t defend the pass at all. He’ll give you big hits like Rey maualuga but that’s about it. He also plays like a meathead. Goes for the big hit all the time but sometimes misses. Eric Berry is by far the more talented player.

by jb22 on Nov 9, 2009 7:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Eh

Out of Mays and Berry I really don’t like Berry as much as he is hyped up to be by analysts. He plays ‘like’ Ed Reed but he looks slower and he doesn’t give you hits like Reed occasionally does. On the other hand Mays plays safety like Roy Williams but he looks better at it. He’s faster and stronger. The one thing Mays lacks is a feel for the game, he floats around awkwardly-leading to big hits that Berry would turn into picks. If Berry posts a 4.4 forty time then he’ll jump to best player in the draft for me, but I think his lack of speed will limit his production in the NFL.

by kinzav29 on Nov 9, 2009 11:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm pretty sure

Berry runs a 4.4. saw it online somewhere.

by jb22 on Nov 10, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if they wanted to mays could be moved to the weakside and play linebacker like they did with t.davis on the panthers

by Habte E on Nov 10, 2009 10:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

good points

it’s really hard to tell. Im not sold on either one but McCoy does seem to have the tools that would translate into being a pretty good defensive tackle. Plus he seems to rush the passer very well and we need all the help we can get in that category.

by keeperskillz24 on Nov 9, 2009 6:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I agree with you on this one I am definitly not sold yet both do look like studs at times but I have to think the same things were being said about glenn dorsey when he came out and that hasn’t really panned out but I think this draft is a tough one again because their doesn’t seem to be a clear cut number 1 kind of like this past draft and that is also why I believe it would be tough for the rams to trade down which is what I really would like for them to do. And also on the Mays subject I agree that Eric Berry is the better overall player that can cover and help in run support.

by bobhugehands on Nov 9, 2009 9:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like Suh against the run

And until we can consistently stop the run rushing the passer is secondary.

by dbcouver on Nov 9, 2009 7:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Good Post

I’ve had the same feelings about Suh as you state. I’ve seen him play a bit(couple of VT games) and he’s got 2 outstanding moves: he grabs and pulls you to the right or he grabs and pulls you to the left. I mean they work OFTEN, super effective, but it kinda keeps his explosiveness in check most of the time…sometimes wish he would jus take four steps forward and hit the QB in the mouth instead of trying to read and react all the time. There are moments when he looks unstoppable thou and its encouraging, but I don’t think hes the next warren sapp maybe more like a simeon rice guy if u push him outside. McCoy I haven’t really looked at all that much.

The man I’m looking at is Terrence Cody. FREAKING HOSS. I really dunno where he’s projected but I like him. He’s gargantuan, a special teams force on field goals, and did i mention he’s gigantic. Its like putting a 6’ by 6’ brick wall in the middle of the line and telling the RB “your gonna have to find another way around”. He might be a 3-4 type guy but if he’s there in the 2nd/3rd round, holy bajeezee I’d take a look at this kid.

by kinzav29 on Nov 10, 2009 12:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't agree w/either of you twos

about Suh. You look at what he is instead of what he will become. So he’s got two moves, but look where they’ve gotten him!?! He’ll learn more moves and better technique when he comes to the NFL, so sure he needs some coaching for the next level. This is gonna be true of any player tho, correct? The batted passes aren’t a result from leaning on an OL player, it’s a little more than that IMO. Trivializing it won’t make it less important.

As for McCoy; I don’t see him on the same level as Suh; less tackles, less sacks, no batted balls, no TD’s, no INT’s. As Kinzav pointed out, Cody IS a giant man and great against the run; but our run defense isn’t bad so is that a need vs desire? If we want just a run stuffer he’d for sure get the nod IMO. We need someone that will either get to the QB or cause enough attention to free someone else to getting at the QB. It’s good to look at other draft prospects, especially with so many needs. As many have pointed out, we could trade back and pick up some draft picks. If we trade back we have to look at the talent that will be there for us.

by RamsFan1979 on Nov 10, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Suh is an absolute monster. Not only are his two current moves enough to make him a more than viable option in the NFL, his work ethic will allow for him to learn more and grow more (literally and figuratively) as he matures into a perrenial pro-bowler

by white088 on Nov 10, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Suh is no doubt a beast

but i think McCoy would offer more services for us we could really use the pass rush and yet he may be able to do some of the thinks that Suh can do, just not as good.

RAY

by ray c on Nov 10, 2009 1:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, if we traded back

and picked up a good position, McCoy would be an asset to the team and ‘pass rush’ is the name of the game…. who knows. I just don’t want another Jimmy Kennedy…lol.

by RamsFan1979 on Nov 10, 2009 8:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice post

I don’t really follow college football so I haven’t actually seen these guys play and can’t give my opinion. I just wanted to tell you that I liked your analysis about size/strength and technique as it relates to going from the college level to the pros. If Suh really does just rely on raw strength and not technique at the college level, I think that is a bad sign.

by Hetfield72 on Nov 18, 2009 9:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Talor Mays lol

Did you see the ND vs USC game, He put a hit on Golden Tate and he bounced off of Tate. And Tate owned him in that game. Hell. I would rather have Tate then Mays, At least I know he will make plays no matter where he lines up. He might be the true Heisman candidate. If we could get JC and GT we would score some points….

by Rambling_Rams on Nov 18, 2009 6:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs