The Draft
As I said in my last post the win was nice but back to business.
I know it's early but it's something stuck in my mind.
Bernie at Stltoday.com has given a list of 10 in my mind good QBs.
But this post is about the first 2 rounds of the draft.
I say that we need a DT and I know some agree and I like Ndamukong Suh of Nebraska. Though the Rams had a problem with Adam Carriker (also from Nebraska).
Here are some of Suh's Stats (bottom of the page)
Compare with Adam Carriker stats (bottom of page)
Back to the QB's since there are 10 I am almost positive that not all of them go in the First Round.
I am undecided on who they IMO they should take in the first round of the draft.
I would love Suh.
But I'm not sure if a QB is worth passing up to the 2nd round.
In that list my top 5 are Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Sam Bradford, Jimmy Clausen, and Dan LeFevour.
I say they take Suh in 1st round
and then one of the 10 QB's suggested by Bernie.
I added Tyrod Taylor I'm A VT fan. (If he goes out for the draft)
Finnaly choose who you think should be the Rams 1st round pick.
0 recs |
55 comments
Comments
The draft
I say that the rams see what is out there come draft time because so much can happen between now and then and I think a lot of it is going to depend on how Bradford comes back from the surgery and how he performs in the combine but for them to take him I would have to be completely sure that everything is ok. Also I wouldn’t be apposed to the Rams trading down and picking up mutiple picks if possible.
by bobhugehands on Nov 3, 2009 11:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I choked on my Lean Pocket when I read
“Tim Tebow” at the front of your QB list.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
by Tackle Box on Nov 3, 2009 11:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I am not trying to be rude or anything
but I really can’t understand why so many people seem to think Tebow will be a good NFL QB.
He may be impressive physically and he is a good leader and all that, but none of that matters because he cannot throw the ball accurately. Especially in our offensive system, accuracy is an absolute MUST.
I do NOT think Sam Bradford is the most talented QB in the draft, but barring complications with his shoulder, I think he would be the BEST FIT with our system. The spread can inflate numbers, but Bradford’s accuracy is not to be doubted.
by jb22 on Nov 3, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Bradford is the best QB as well.
but him and his two shoulder injuries a huge signing bonus and about 70M dollars scares the shit out of me.
Honestly, i’m torn on which QB would be the best fit. No one really sticks out to me as being the best. Every one of them has a downfall. I really like Dan Lefevour since I’m such a MAC nerd (btw, I’m not too terribly impressed with Tim Hiller) and I’ve watched him play so many times (at least a dozen times or more, once live) but the fact he plays against lesser competition concerns me (he didn’t exactly impress a whole bunch against Boston College this past weekend…152, 0, 1 and 26 yds rushing). Sure, Roethlisberger has succeded after playing in the MAC but he’s kind of a special case.
I just think of guys like Bruce Gradkowski and wonder if Lefevour is just him in a different uniform?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
by Tackle Box on Nov 3, 2009 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Too early to tell who is the best QB
Everyone here seems to like Locker. I like Locker a lot, but I worry about his consistency and his accuracy. Not saying that Locker is inaccurate, but he isn’t on Bradford’s level. Also, I get the feeling that Locker is a bit raw. If we do take Locker, I really think Bulger will have to stick around and play next season as well.
Clausen is talented as well, but I wonder how well he would play with our WRs. Also, I think he would fit in best with a vertical passing game. I don’t think quick short passes are his specialty.
I haven’t looked at Snead much or Lefevour much.
Tebow just isn’t accurate enough to play in the WCO. The only teams that Tebow could play on would be teams like Tennessee that have an elite running game and a simplified passing game.
Bradford (pre-injury) seemed the best fit, but with our O-Line, despite improvements, Bradford is going to take a lot of hits, and I worry if his shoulder can hold up or not.
by jb22 on Nov 3, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The thing with Bradford
is he played behind an All American O-Line last year. He had all day to throw and a uncollapsable pocket. he comfortably threw all over opponents. I needed to see how he would do with an O-line that was not so protective, and sure enough the first game he gets knocked out for a couple games. When he gets back, he gets knocked out by a DB and his season is done. That ruined it for me. I needed to see more on Bradford with an average line and now that won’t happen. If we keep Shurmer calling plays the QB for our system is Colt McCoy. Go look at his stats and the range of his throws. 85% of balls thrown are within 15yds (that is a apporximation, but it is something very close to that). I am going to stick with my suggestion. Trade down, trade down and trade down. We opened up even more needs this year with some trades. Not to mention the amount of money we have locked up in two 2nd overall picks is piling up.
by CaliRamMan on Nov 3, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
THey aren't in order
and my favorite is Jake Locker
Touchdown St.Louis Rams Won the SuperBowl
by WaZuP cReAtOr on Nov 3, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
by VTramsFan on Nov 3, 2009 11:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol was @ lean pocket
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
by VTramsFan on Nov 3, 2009 11:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i still cant believe...
No one is talking about case keenum… he is officially statistically the best qb in college football…him on the second round and suh in the first and we will be golden.
by Danteslion on Nov 3, 2009 4:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Keenum is having a nice senior season
and solidifying his draft stock. I don’t see him going in the first three rounds, but I’ve only seen one game of his live, so I’ll reserve my own evaluation until I see more tape of him.
You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.
by 3k on Nov 3, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How could we consider Keenum this year
If we didn’t consider Harrell at all last year? Thats one guy I’d like to have seen more so than Null.
by dbcouver on Nov 3, 2009 11:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IMO Suh is a more dominant
player than Carriker was at N. Tho one point you should mention, Carriker has had a career of injuries and this was known when he was drafted. Suh has had one injury. Can you tell I voted Suh?!
Hard to say how Carriker could do if he had a full season under his belt, I still think he’d be
a beast for us.
by RamsFan1979 on Nov 3, 2009 5:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Just looked at Suh highlights
for the love… please tell me there’s a good chance we draft him
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
by VTramsFan on Nov 3, 2009 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The way we're winning right now?
We won’t have a shot at him lol.
by dbcouver on Nov 3, 2009 11:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd!
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
by Tackle Box on Nov 4, 2009 7:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One thing that
people need to consider with drafting a DT that early in the draft, is that is one of the hardest position to come in and have an impact early in a career. Rarely are you able to find yourself a Sapp. I too like Suh. i mean the guy is unbelievable, how many DTs chalk up INT’s like this guy? i don’t think I have ever seen it.
BUT, I don’t think he is the pick for us. In life timing is everything, and I don’t think the timing is right for us to draft a DT. Our interior D-line has played well this year (with the pieces we have). They have attacked gaps well, have clogged running lanes well and have done a very good job with minimal pass rushing from the DE position. i will go over what I think move should be in my next post. Right now I have to eat some glorius food!
by CaliRamMan on Nov 3, 2009 9:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Define glorious...
You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.
by 3k on Nov 3, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By Glorious
I mean bacon wrapped meatloaf, with homemade mash, and homemade mac and cheese.
I normally hate meatloaf, but pops spent his time in college working as a chef at a fine dining restaurant. The food makes visiting the folks well worth it. the meatloaf was a mix of pork and beef with the proper amount of spices, onions, etc. he makes his own version of the Ketchup that taste more like a light BBQ sauce that he bastes the meat with. Then the entire loaf is covered with thick cut maple bacon. So Fukin Money. Then he uses 5 different cheeses and a homemade sauce for the Mac and Cheese, just a little better than Kraft. The Mash was your run of the mill mash with the proper amount of salt, pepper, butter and milk. with the exception of it equaling 3500 calories it was like I said…..Glorious
by CaliRamMan on Nov 3, 2009 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd for gloriousness
You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.
by 3k on Nov 4, 2009 8:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
omg
My heroes had the heart to lose their lives out on a limb
And all I remember Is thinking, I want to be like them
by CoachConnors on Nov 5, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How about sacks?
He is the type of player that should develop and will allow other players around him to develop. Maybe he won’t make the immediate impact we’d all like, but he won’t do any worse than Long did IMO.
If not a DT than who? IMO, right now he’s the best pick.
by RamsFan1979 on Nov 3, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want
another early draft pick to just equal Chris Long production. I need that pick to surpass that level. So no worse than long is not where I set my barrometer.
by CaliRamMan on Nov 4, 2009 12:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've come around to thinking if we draft a QB
it should be McCoy. He is a team leader without a doubt. He is accurate, he can move, and he’s tough. It still would be tough to pass on someone like Suh, but who knows where we’ll be by next April? Trading down and picking up high level picks would be great, but I’m not sure how likely it is unless a rookie salary scale is part of a new contract with the union.
by andyrose on Nov 3, 2009 10:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
A couple of WR's I like if we're not going 1st round for one
Eric Decker- Minnesota
Terrance Toliver- LSU
Mike Williams- Syracuse
Dezmon Briscoe- Kansas
Bryan Anderson- Central Michigan
I’d love Suh first round- QB second round (Lefevour), Decker third round, And then I’d think about taking 1-2 CBs, a TE, and a LB and/or DE later.
The 53 as one have become the 53 that won.
by Carneros on Nov 3, 2009 11:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1 I like that
And Cali, I understand ttally your point, but Suh could cue a lot of ills FAST because he looks better than Sapp IMHO.
Even though we have played “adequate” at DT bringing someone like this in I believe could really make everyone else better because of the attention he would draw… If you’re thinking QB in the first round, I hink that would be a mistake because there are some quaity QB’s that should be available in the 2nd round.
Curious to hear your thoughts but I can’t argue with you waiting til after that Glorious meal… damn that sounds good
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
by VTramsFan on Nov 3, 2009 11:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We don't need a WR too early this year
as long as we get Julio Jones next year. I think he’ll be better than any WR’s this year. IF there were ever a reason to root for another Rams losing season next year, Julio Jones would be that reason. My two first rounders aren’t doing much in the way of QB help, but the Rams haven’t drafted a QB in the first round in a very, very long time, I think at least 30 years. LeFevour will be fine with Jones, Avery, and Robinson. And with Jackson, and with that offense, who couldn’t thrive?
The 53 as one have become the 53 that won.
by Carneros on Nov 3, 2009 11:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Next year looks pretty deep at big #1 Receivers, so we should wait until then.
Sorry about the numerous posts, looking at the 2011 draft class is getting me excited, too bad its two years from now. I can barely wait for this year’s draft. But anyway, Julio Jones, Michael Floyd, and AJ Green, are 6’4’’, 6’3’’ and 6’4’’ respectively. I like Jones and Green the most. Haven’t even begun to look at other positions. Can’t wait to see the Rams in the playoffs in 2011, hopefully sooner (2009, we got it in the bag, 9-7 here we come).
The 53 as one have become the 53 that won.
by Carneros on Nov 3, 2009 11:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
heres my only thing
about drafting a receiver so high in the draft. We have a lot of young receivers as it is and to add another one would be just one more. Granted i do like these guys and one of em could be a really good receiver one day and id like him to be in a ram jersey. But it seems to me receivers always step up in the NFL more then any position run the numbers i could be wrong but we have alot of issues. Sign a good #1 in the free agency who already is pretty devolved use Robinson at #2 and avery at 3 or 4 so he can use his speed to play not his other so so abilities. Then have Amendola and the rest go for spots. That will help are receivers but i think a quarterback for the offensive side is the most important position to really pick wisely.
by keeperskillz24 on Nov 3, 2009 11:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Getting a receiver like Julio Jones
would not be getting “just another young receiver”. Yes he is young like our receivers, but he is more talented than anyone we have. And we are still lacking a receiver of his caliber, or what he’s supposed to be.
The 53 as one have become the 53 that won.
by Carneros on Nov 4, 2009 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
true
just not sold on him being a number one pick is all im saying. I think a vetrean for now would be a nice change of things. This Sunday just made me realize this getting a quarterback thing is no joke. He had a decent amount of time to throw but couldnt even get it past the line of scrimmage.
by keeperskillz24 on Nov 4, 2009 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just
read this after I just posted, so …Ditto.
by CaliRamMan on Nov 4, 2009 12:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Word
Julio Jones is the WR I have been keeping an eye on. Well, him and AJ Green. Both guys are 6’3ish and if we don’t have a chance at Bryant with our second pick where ever that maybe in the draft, I say we wait on WR. I’m just not that big on this years class.
by CaliRamMan on Nov 4, 2009 12:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The positions I think we need to look at
are OT if we don’t keep barron. WR without a doubt, but the two more important ones are LB and def DE.
It is becoming more and more clear that Barron is going to be gone next year and that Smith will be making the move to LT, ready or not. Yet I think we can find one in round 3 or 4. Our DT’s have actually looked good. I swear i would have never thought the production we would be able to get out of the group we have. I have to attribute that to the coaching. The reason our secondary is having trouble and drives our able to be sustained against us, is nothing more than lack of pass rush. It is killing us on Defense. Other than that I would say defensively we have played solid (regardless of the Scoreboard). Chris Long (I will never forgive Parcells for drafting Jake Long, the first time I had ever wanted my team to draft an OL in the first round, minus Pace, and Parcells swoops him in the only pick before us) still has a way to go,but development takes time, especially when you are an athletic freak of nature (Mario Williams). Our two best DE’s are averaging 34 years of age and we are maximizing tread left on those tires (not a whole lot left). Our back ups are nothing to write home about. This has to be a point of emphasis early. Our future depends on it.
Yet if it have it my way, there are two LBs that have impressed me beyond any other players. Rolando McClain, the MLB for Alabama. This kid is pure man. An absolute beast in stature. He hits like a truck, organizes well, and plays the run as good as anyone in college football. He is a menacing force at the point of attack. What impresses me more than anything is his intelligence. Rarely are you gifted with both physical ability and intelligence like this. More impressive than that is that he is the only MLB I have seen that has free reign to call defensive audibles. Its an impressive sight to watch. But, we need him on the outside, which Saban lines him up occasionally. I will be watching for more situations with him attacking the OT.
The next one is a guy that i have been saying needs to be a Ram for the last two years. Brandon Spikes, yes the eye raking WWF star that plays football. Regardless, he is the most talented LB I have seen since Miami star Ray Lewis. He organizes incredibly well, he reads the run better than McClain, and he drops into coverage very well. Although he is not blazing fast he covers sideline to sideline and uses his surprising quickness to hit the point of attack. The thing that I like abut him is that Florida moves him all over the place and he has shown the ability to play the SAM almost as well as the MIKE. Meyers and off coordinator Strong love to let him go at OTs and blitz left and right off the edge. Besides his versatility, and intelligence, the guy is 6’3 and 253 lbs.
The thing is, I am imaging one of these two lined up next to Laurinitis and talk about a tandem to wreck havoc for years to come. In addition, LB’s can have an immediate impact, especially for rebuilding teams. They can help disquise weaknesses until they can be addressed. And talk about bang for your buck, LB’s demand less money.
If we can trade down, acquire more picks, pay less money for our picks and come out with one of these guys, would be ecstatic. Then we can use our early 2nd round pick and the additional 2nd round pick to address the DE spot amongst others.
by CaliRamMan on Nov 4, 2009 12:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't agree more
As long as we get them at value like JL came.
by dbcouver on Nov 17, 2009 12:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I humbly think...
…that getting Barron and Bell the hell outta Dodge will actually IMPROVE the O-Line. Both these guys drag down the team. Let’s try Smith, Brown, Setts, Goldberg and Incognito up front and rely on Karney and the TE(?) to help with blocking duties. IF Avery stays healthy and we get back Robinson, we may be OK at WR. So I see two priorities: QB and D-Line. It’s just MHO that a team generally needs a star calibre QB to win divisions, playoffs and championships. So, we’ve either got to invest a high draft pick (and make a good selection) or spend gobs of $$$ to try to snake a quality QB from another team. Next, our LB’s and secondary cannot shut down opponents alone. We need a Monster (or two) on the D-Line that can stuff runs, bat down passes, and get sacks. We cannot rely on older guys like Little and Hall to carry the load any longer. They’re pretty much done by the 4th quarter. Maybe, if we’re lucky, Gibson comes back strong and Ryan works out for us. I think Chris Long will be no more than adequate (ever), but maybe that’ll be ok. Carriker’s a Bosworth – goodbye. So, with the O-Line and WR’s I mentioned above, a good QB, and SJax we should be able to score some points. And with improvements on the D-Line, we should be able to cut down on points allowed.
by edpjr on Nov 4, 2009 12:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
We have to try to trade down
There isn’t a QB worthy of the first 5 spots in the draft. If we can’t trade down right now I’m in the Jimmy Clausen camp. He plays under center and has a good arm and a great touchdown to interception ratio. You can also make a case for him not having the benefit of an all-american O-line in front of him and for having a pretty competitve schedule through out his career. I like Locker, but not in the first round. I like Bradford but not with a questionable front 5.
I like Suh if not Clausen. I just think we need our QB now. I don’t think we can avoid overdrafting for one either.
by dbcouver on Nov 4, 2009 1:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Notre Dame
Offensive line is one of the best in college football. They are big and experienced. They will have an All American by seasons end. They give him all kinds of time to throw, hence his TD-Int ratio.
by CaliRamMan on Nov 4, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How can I vote for a QB without seeing Null?
Someone tell me why we picked him if we aren’t going to see what we have. Was it a completely stupid waste of a pick?
“Who you got?”
“I got no one.”
“Null.”
C’mon, Rams. There had to be someone who thought he needed to be given a shot, we’re screamin headlong towards 12+ losses, we can’t pick a QB next year without throwing this kid out there and seeing what he does.
My heroes had the heart to lose their lives out on a limb
And all I remember Is thinking, I want to be like them
by CoachConnors on Nov 5, 2009 11:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
i agree
I think he should practice with the first team and go out in the fourth quarter if the game is not winnable. Evrey player in the draft should be useful to us in someway. If he makes some decent throws and shows he has poise and makes good decisions even if its taking a sack or throwing it away if hes going to get clobberd or theirs tight coverage. And if he does good against the saints assuming we’ll be down a touchdown or five move him to bollers spot. I just wanna see him so we can possibly cross off a position for the draft/free agency.
by keeperskillz24 on Nov 5, 2009 6:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He'd have to be elevated to #2
Or we’d have to stick with him after putting him in once we did. Bulger and Boller would have to be hurt otherwise.
by dbcouver on Nov 9, 2009 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A QB we can win with
If you guys watch any of the ND games you will see JC is the qb we need. He can make the throws and has a cannon. Realistically he has only thrown 1 int this year. That was a Hail Mary at the end of the first half against MS. Of the other two he is credited with. 1 went through AA’s hands and the other bounced off of MF’s back…. He has heart and leadership at the position we most lack, He is one of the toughest players I have ever seen. This guy has been pounded on for 3 years and gets up and keeps playing. He has tremendous upside. Think McMahon physicality and and a Favre type of gun slinger.
No doubt this is the man we want to lead our team into the future…
by Rambling_Rams on Nov 15, 2009 11:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm starting to lean towards the Clausen boat.
I was with Locker but after looking into Clausen lately I’m really starting to like him.
The 53 as one have become the 53 that won.
by Carneros on Nov 16, 2009 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the QB class is so muddled
we’re better off taking a pass on all of ’em with our 1st round pick. They all look prime for a bust to me.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
by Tackle Box on Nov 16, 2009 9:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea I still think we should draft Suh
But if we were to take a QB I’d want Clausen
The 53 as one have become the 53 that won.
by Carneros on Nov 16, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well sure
You mean Jesus Christ, right?
by CoachConnors on Nov 16, 2009 12:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Has to be a QB this year
Every year we have passed on Qb’s and look what has happened. All the experts say no, you cannot do that, they will get pummeled and become damaged goods. Look at Troy Aikman, he was 1-15 as a rookie. Then he and the team got better. Joe Flacco in Baltimore, sure he is not a All-pro but he has done a great. Atlanta, Indy, NY Giants. All have started rookies and it has paid dividends. We have made to many mistakes in the draft already, enough is enough already. Just draft a top tier qb if not somebody else will and we will be saying “Man we should have drafted him and we let him go” Remember Dan Marino….
by Rambling_Rams on Nov 18, 2009 6:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I hate to say it
But it’s beginning to look like we can add TE to our long list of needs this year.
by dbcouver on Nov 23, 2009 4:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why?
Both Fells and Bajema are under contract for next year (right?) and both are more than competent.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
by Tackle Box on Nov 23, 2009 7:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nothing against Fells and Bajema
As far as I’m concerned they are all we have. And one more pass catcher would be nice is all I’m thinking. I wouldn’t rule out FA as the way to go either.
by dbcouver on Nov 23, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It is a need
but I think we have much more pressing needs. We can go with Fells, Bajema, and a FA (LJ Smith would be nice). I don’t think we use a draft pick on one this year. We have gaping holes in the D-Line, QB, and CB. Also some big needs at the two OLB spots and we have to fill some O-Line vacancies, and perhaps a big WR. The TE is low on the priorty list, probably around change of pace, Darren Sproles-type back.
The 53 as one have become the 53 that won.
by Carneros on Nov 23, 2009 8:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would also rate TE low
But up to now, I haven’t even thought about it. I’m just disappointed with Mcmichael to the point of moving the position up a little.
by dbcouver on Nov 23, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

by 




















