2010 prospect watch (DT edition) - Nov. 17th
by 3k on Nov 17, 2009 11:12 AM CST
in 2010 prospect watch
32 comments
There were a couple lessons to be learned from Sunday's game against the Saints; IMO, one of the most important was that our defensive front is unable to pressure QBs on their own. As to whether that is mainly due to the defensive ends or tackles is a fair debate. What's not open to debate is the fact that there are some very talented DT prospects in the 2010 NFL draft. While there's not too many games left for some of these future professionals, there's enough time for some fluctuation among each other and on big boards as a whole.
For reference, here's my QB board from Oct. 6th and my most recent mock draft. Here's how my DT board looks in mid-November (* denotes underclassmen, parenthetical links are for scouting reports):
1 - Ndamukong Suh, Nebraska (ESPN)
First, I feel I have to help out Van here - it's en-dom-ah-ken soo. Of course, if you would rather call him damn-you-Kong!, feel free. Name aside, Suh is an absolute terror. He's stronger than his 6'3"-295 lb. frame suggests, and he's incredibly quick. Less than two weeks ago, the Cornhuskers faced off against Oklahoma; Suh made the most out of one of the bigger stages he's played on. He anchored a line that brought pressure on OU QB Landry Jones all day, resulting in a Cutleresque 5 picks. For good measure, he blocked a FG too.
Next notable evaluation: Nov. 27 at Colorado, 3:30pm ET (ABC)
Rest of the board after the fold.
2 - Gerald McCoy*, Oklahoma (ESPN, MTD)
McCoy has been disrupting offenses for three years, missing just one game due to a hand injury two years ago. I've seen him at the top of many a DT board, and it's hard to argue; he explodes out of his stance. Once he does so, he's got a full menu of moves that he executes very well: swim, power rip, spin, and even his power rush, though that last one still needs some work. Really, that's his one flaw is raw power, and juxtaposed against Suh, it's even more evident. Still, he's been a model student-athlete at Oklahoma, acting as president of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, serving as a team captain, and avoiding the kind of off-field troubles that many of his peers seem to enjoy.
Next notable evaluation: Nov. 28 vs. #12 Oklahoma St., 12:30pm ET
3 - Marvin Austin*, North Carolina
Austin heads up the second tier of DTs right now, IMO. He's got a great skill set that applies to both run and pass defense, but he's part of a very funky D-line, that includes two other solid DTs (Cam Thomas & Aleric Mullins) and a 375-lb. DE (Earl Wilson). I think that he could be a great pick in a 4-3 or even as a 3-4 DE. His biggest flaw is his technique; he's still a bit raw, but with a coach to mentor him (Spagnuolo?), he could be very successful in the NFL.
Next notable evaluation: Nov. 21 at Boston College, 12:00pm ET (ESPN2)
4 - Arthur Jones, Syracuse (ESPN, MTD)
Jones is the first real injury plagued prospect on this board. He tore a chest muscle working out this spring, and he injured his knee in the Pittsburgh game earlier this month. Still, what he was able to prove in his 4+ seasons at Syracuse was plenty to go off of. He's a very good run-stopping DT who competes every play. and he succeeded from time to time facing double teams. He's not a strong pass rusher, but that shouldn't hurt his draft stock. Plenty of teams would love to get his run stuffing skills on their lines.
Next notable evaluation: N/A
5 - Terrence Cody, Alabama (ESPN)
Terrence Cody is large human being. At 6'3" and anywhere from 370-400 lbs., he obviously presents a huge roadblock for offensive lines to deal with. Since transferring to Bama last year, he's been a fan favorite for obvious reasons. Still, you have to wonder if he can play anything but a 3-4 NT in the NFL. He's slow (in NFL terms. For his size, he's blazing fast. Try and find someone around 400 lbs. who can A.) run and B.) run anywhere near as fast as Cody), and he's sloppy. His technique revolves around the power rush, and that includes his stints on the offensive side of the ball as a FB or RB where Alabama has used him from time to time. The bottom line is, a body this big will be in demand, especially for 3-4 defenses who need a true NT.
Next notable evaluation: Dec. 5 vs. Florida (SEC Championship - neutral site), 4:00pm ET (TBD)
6 - Jared Odrick, Penn St. (ESPN)
Next notable evaluation: Nov. 21 at Michigan St., 3:30pm ET (ABC)
7 - Vince Oghobaase, Duke (ESPN)
Next notable evaluation: Nov. 21 at Miami, 12:00pm ET (ESPNU)
8 - Brian Price*, UCLA
Next notable evaluation: Nov. 28 at USC, 10:00pm ET
9 - Dan Williams, Tennessee
Next notable evaluation: Nov. 21 vs. Vanderbilt, 7:00pm ET (ESPNU)
10 - Geno Atkins, Georgia (ESPN)
Next notable evaluation: Nov. 21 vs. Kentucky, 7:45pm ET (ESPN2)
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OT??
I also think we need an OT in the draft as well. Maybe 3rd round? Barron isn’t cutting it.
by 81 Witness on Nov 17, 2009 11:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not a WR
Not with Robinson and Avery on board, there’s not going to be a WR picked very highly this time around. And I’m very happy with that, I think there’s a lot of positions we need more than a rookie WR.
by CoachConnors on Nov 17, 2009 11:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Just a thought
I wonder what it would take for us to try and trade for Shaun Rogers. Just a thought.
by jb22 on Nov 17, 2009 1:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
A thought - trade Jackson for great draft picks (remember Faulk, Dickerson)
draft Mark Ingram out of Alabama (Jackson has spent too many years on a non-playoff team and his best days are now starting to trail him behind). Then, with the picks we get for Jackson, we can fill a D.T., D.E., outside linebacker, etc…
Rams actually have done well over the years when they are involved in a blockbuster trade!
by jlcdb70 on Nov 17, 2009 1:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
you only trade when..
a player’s perceived value is higher than is actual value (Herschal Walker). Jackson’s actual value is very great, we would have to get a mother package of players and picks before we even start talking. Not to mention, a cap hit if we trade. I dont see it happening.
by gomer7 on Nov 17, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
there wont be a cap hit
if there is no cap
I believe in 2010
by ram_rod on Nov 17, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"(Jackson has spent too many years on a non-playoff team and his best days are now starting to trail him behind)"
He’s 26 years old… even if we don’t compete for the playoffs next year, and we do the year after, he’ll only be 28.
So 28,29,30 with the Rams peaking… i’ll take that.
I’d be more inclined to get a solid #2 RB to split some time and reduce wear/tear and keep him around. He’s a “once every couple decades” type of back… I can’t see trading him, nor do I think that would make sense.
"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi
by VTramsFan on Nov 17, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely +1.
Thomas Jones 31 y/o, 9th in the NFL rushing yards.
Ricky Williams 32 y/o, 14th in the NFL rushing yards.
Both having very good years. No reason why SJ39 should have anything other than very strong seasons for another half-decade, at least.
On the other hand, look at Clinton Portis who has struggled mightily and is only 28.
Carnell “Caddilac” Williams is only 27 but it seems like he’s had a lifetime of wear and tear already.
Same for Willis McGahee, who is 28 going on 50.
My worry with high milage backs like Jackson is they break down if not given enough breaks. Only 1 RB has managed to lead the league in rushing yards in back to back seasons in….well, several years. I can’t find the exact number but it’s rare. They break down, wear out, get injured or simply lose a step.
However, to say Jackson’s best years are behind him is just silly. We have seen nothing but improvement in him up till now and if we spell him properly he should be a very key contributor for years.
by CoachConnors on Nov 17, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
McCoy vs Suh, from Scouts inc.
ESPN’s Scouts Inc has McCoy rated ahead of Suh. That sounds good to me, because I prefer Suh but I don’t think the Rams will be picking first overall…if Scouts inc has it right, the liklihood of Suh dropping down a couple of spots to whereever St. Louis is drafting is not out of the question.
The difference is not great however, and both look like great prospects for instant contributions. There’s plenty of room for varying opinions in draft war rooms across the league.
McCoy is graded at 97/100 and ranked #2 over all
Suh is graded at 96/100 and ranked #3 overall.
(Safety Eric Berry is Scouts Inc’s #1 rated draft prospect)
Souts Inc. gives a grade of 1-4 for each section, 1 being best.
Here’s what they say about each guy.
McCoy, 6’3½", 296 lbs – Grade: 97
Height/Weight/Speed (2) – Is tall with adequate bulk. Well-proportioned athlete for a 3-technique and shows above-average top-end speed.
Durability (2) – Shows toughness to play through nagging injuries. Missed only one game after breaking a bone in his hand versus Miami in 2007. Has started every game since then, including all 14 in 2008.
Intangibles (1) - He is a well-respected leader and was voted a team captain. Serves as president of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Also a member of the AFCA good works team.
Strength/Toughness (2) – Shows initial pop and drives OL back initially. Mentally and physically tough. Uses excellent pad level to overcome lack of elite size. Fights through the double team. Shows upper-body strength to lock on and then disengage.
Quickness(hands/feet) (1) – Displays exceptional quickness for a DT. Good snap anticipation. Fires off the ball as quickly as any interior DL in the country. Shows very quick hands. Consistently gets hands in position and shows explosiveness to disengage in a hurry.
Versus the Run (2) – Consistently penetrates and disrupts. Shows explosive initial pop to jar offensive linemen and get them on their heels. Shows balance and awareness to find the ball, change directions and pursue once in the backfield. Lacks ideal size and will never be a good fit as a space-eating two-gapper. Still, he stays low and uses leverage to hold his ground against the double-team when teams run at him. Stronger than measurables would indicate. Shows rare closing burst and open-field tackling skills for the position.
Pass Rush Skills (1) – Elite first-step quickness. Consistently penetrates as a one-gap pass rusher. Does an outstanding job of using array of pass rush moves to fight through blocks. Very quick and powerful hands to swim, rip and club OL. Displays elite balance, change-of-direction skills and closing burst for the DT position. Knows how to transfer quickness to power as a bull rusher. Is crafty and does a fine job of setting up offensive linemen and keep them off-balance throughout a game.
Suh, 6’3⅞", 295 lbs — Grade: 96
Height/Weight/Speed (2) – Is one of the taller DT prospects in the 2010 class. Has adequate bulk for his frame and it is distributed well. Also displays excellent top-end speed for position.
Durability (3) – Suffered knee injury that required surgery in 2005, when he received a medical redshirt. Suffered another knee injury that limited him in the spring of 2007. Has remained durable since then, playing in 25 consecutive games the past two seasons (2007-08).
Intangibles (2) – No off-the-field issues to our knowledge. Continues to improve each year and coaches speak highly of his work ethic.
Strength/Toughness (2) – Plays with a great motor. High-effort player. Adequate size but is not a massive space-eater. Displays good lower-body strength and excellent upper-body power. Shows great initial pop. Can drive the offensive lineman off the ball with initial power.
Quickness(hands/feet) (2) – Is light on his feet. Does not display an elite first step but does show good overall quickness. Impressive agility and change-of-direction skills. Good range versus the run. Shows great hand quickness. Explosive upper-body power and the ability to disengage from blocks as quickly as any DT in college football today.
Versus the Run (1) – Love his hand usage. He keeps separation, finds the ball quickly and then disengages in a hurry in order to pursue the ball carrier. Displays good overall awareness. Will work down the line of scrimmage and make more plays than most DTs. Works hard to the whistle. Only knock here is that we’d like to see him play with a bit better leverage at the point of attack because he occasionally comes out of his stance too high and struggles to hold ground when teams run at him.
Pass Rush Skills (2) – Displays excellent straight-line power as a bull-rusher. Consistently collapses the pocket and makes an impact even when it doesn’t show up in the stat sheet. Not an elite first step but shows good combination of quickness and power. Also displays excellent closing burst if he gets a shot to bring down the QB.
by CoachConnors on Nov 17, 2009 2:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
They're both awesome
and as I said above, I’ve seen McCoy rated higher than Suh a lot of places, and that’s a very fair difference.
You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.
by 3k on Nov 17, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they'll probably draft a D lineman in the first 3 picks
And if they go with the first pick, I believe it’ll be Suh. I’d be ok with that.
I’d also be happy if they took CB Alterraun Verner in the 3rd round. Scouts has him ranked 74 overall so he’s in the neighborhood for the early 3rd round, and he’s got great ball skills and playmaker ability. I can’t tell you how badly this team needs playmakers.
by CoachConnors on Nov 17, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
With the Rams first 3 picks that is
by CoachConnors on Nov 17, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The CB crop this year is pretty weak
Especially compared to last year which was stacked.
You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.
by 3k on Nov 17, 2009 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does that imply...
They’ll be in short supply so teams better get them while they can, or that the individuals in this class are less worthy of drafting because there’s just not as many of them?
In my thinking, the depth of talent really only come into play in the later rounds.
For example, I think we need a playmaking corner but I don’t think we can find that in later rounds, especially in a shallow CB pool.
I know some guys who’d say “Its a weak draft for corners so we shouldn’t look there this year” and I just don’t get that.
by CoachConnors on Nov 17, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess both
The second tier of CB prospects going into last year was HUGE. In the second round, 5 CBs were drafted: Alphonso Smith, Darius Butler, Jairus Byrd (now converted to safety), Sherrod Martin and Sean Smith. Hell, you could even throw in the next CB taken – our own Bradley Fletcher.
This year, you’ve got Joe Haden leading the way in a tier by himself. Florida State’s Patrick Robinson could leap into that tier with him, and maybe OSU’s Perrish Cox. Those two lead my second tier with Javier Arenas, Donovan Warren, Wake Forest’s Brandon Ghee, Syd’Quan Thompson, and Trevard Lindley. I’d take last year’s second tier over this year’s in a heartbeat.
You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.
by 3k on Nov 17, 2009 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
when a draft is weak in a position...
I think it only means one can’t expect value at that position. It doesn’t conclude anything. I happen to like Verner too. Like you say he’s a playmaker. Whether or not we pick him? If better value is available at DE, OT, OLB, QB, or DT, I’d be disappointed if we didn’t go for that instead, until those needs have been addressed.
by dbcouver on Nov 17, 2009 6:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on your stance
And since we can’t expect value, why not go somewhere else? Even BPA/BTA advocates won’t be looking at CBs this draft very often.
You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.
by 3k on Nov 17, 2009 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think a shallow pool only effects mid-late rounds
The top of the line CB’s are still top of the line CB’s even if there’s only a couple of them. You either draft a top guy as you would any other year or you wait very late….like your last pick.
I can’t help it, I’d love a playmaking CB and round 3 isn’t too high of an investment into that, as long as they have already decided to retain Atogwe. I think S is a higher priority than CB if they lose Atogwe though.
by CoachConnors on Nov 17, 2009 6:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
See, that I disagree with
After Haden, the rest of the CBs aren’t anywhere close to that crop above I listed from the ‘09 draft that came off after Malcolm Jenkins and Vontae Davis.
I’d love a playmaking CB too, but I think we had a great find in Bradley Fletcher.
You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.
by 3k on Nov 17, 2009 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thumbs down on Alterraun in the 3rd?
To label Fletcher a great find is maybe a little premature, IMHO. I have an open mind about it though.
by CoachConnors on Nov 17, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's unbelivable
All you guys really talking up CBs? Yahoo!!!!
by Knoxfan on Nov 18, 2009 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I <3 me some Alterraun.
The more Bruins on the Rams, the happier I am.
by BruinHalo on Nov 17, 2009 9:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Notice what's important for McCoy's pass rushing grade....
Pass Rush Skills (1) – Elite first-step quickness.
This is what I’ve been railing against Long about. His firast step quickness has been abysmal since the preseason, at least.
Probably half the sacks earned come from by beating the O-lineman with that very first step. The rest of the play is the D guy trying to catch up and get in the way….or holding.
by CoachConnors on Nov 17, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The rest of the play is the O guy trying to catch up and get in the way….or holding.
Whats wrong with me today, I can’t get my head out of my A
by CoachConnors on Nov 17, 2009 5:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Either one of these guys will be good
I still like Suh, although the comparisons are pretty close. I wouldn’t be opposed to McCoy. President of the Christian athletes qualifies for the 4 pillars, so I wouldn’t bet against him being picked. I’ll admit part of the reason I like Suh is he went to school here in Oregon.
by dbcouver on Nov 17, 2009 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"(Jackson has spent too many years on a non-playoff team and his best days are now starting to trail him behind)"
Please explain how Sjax’s best days are “trailing behind him.” sjax I believe is 3rd in the league in rushing yards. I also believe that the offensive line is getting into a much Better groove and is opening up holes for Jackson to run through. And if the playcalling in the redzone would commit to the run, I can see Sjax finishing with at least 10 rushing TDs for the year. So there’s no way I would consider trading our cornerstone player regardless of age
by revrue914 on Nov 17, 2009 3:29 PM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Free Agent Linemen
Some big names are going to be free agents at the end of the year, so if the Rams don’t want to grab a McCoy or Suh, there are other options. Some pretty good options, too.
Richard Seymour has played great since going to Oakland, I can tell you from first hand experience that he is easily the most effective linemen they have now, and he’s only been there a couple of weeks. I think the chances of him staying in Oakland are very iffy.
Selected capsules from FootballsFuture.com….
Vince Wilfork, New England Patriots (27) – unlikely to leave NE
The Patriots acknowledged being unable to keep both of their elite defensive linemen by trading away Richard Seymour, freeing up enough money to retain Vince Wilfork. Wilfork is one of the league’s premier nose tackles and one of the cornerstones for the Patriots’ defense. Once the season ends, the Patriots should start immediately trying to get him under contract so not to give him an option to walk.
Richard Seymour, Oakland Raiders (29) – could be looking for a way out of Oakland
Seymour has been coined one of the best defensive linemen of the decade and made himself a fixture in Honolulu prior to the last two seasons, including one curtailed by injury. Seymour has the ability and experience of playing 4-3 DT and 3-4 DE. Moving to Oakland, the defensive line has been injected with a burst of energy and has performed pretty well overall. Seymour didn’t seem too excited about being blindsided in a trade to Oakland and I’d be surprised to see him make a full-time switch to a losing team from a winning organization like the Patriots.
Ryan Pickett, Green Bay Packers (29) – 3-4 system, but still..
Despite some of the Packers struggles, the front 7 has not been one of them. The Packers are one of the better run-stuffing units and a lot of credit should be attributed to the defensive line. Pickett has turned around his career in Green Bay and done a fantastic job at the Nose Tackle position on run downs. He’s one of three underrated Packer defensive linemen who have been as good as any front 3 in the league so far. Keep in mind the Packers drafted B.J. Raji in the top 10 last year, but the team would still be better off extending Pickett to keep both Pickett and Raji well-rested throughout the game.
Johnny Jolly, Green Bay Packers (26) – another 3-4 guy but with potential
Like Ryan Pickett, Johnny Jolly has very quietly put together a great season at defensive end for Green Bay’s front line. Jolly has been very active up front playing contain and peeling off blocks to make plays himself near the line of scrimmage. Keep in mind that the Packers have a number of starters with expiring contracts this offseason, so Jolly could be one of the guys left out. The organization won’t want to commit that much money to just one unit when they have a number of other up-and-comers they need to extend.
Other Notable Free Agents:
Tony Brown, Tennessee Titans (28)
Kendrick Clancy, New Orleans Saints (31)
Barry Cofield, New York Giants (25)
Jason Ferguson, Miami Dolphins (34)
Aubrayo Franklin, San Francisco 49ers (29)
Kedric Golston, Washington Redskins (26)
Tank Johnson, Cincinnati Bengals (27)
Travis Johnson, San Diego Chargers (27)
Fred Robbins, New York Giants (32)
Clifton Ryan, St. Louis Rams (25) – worth a long term contract?
Tank Tyler, Carolina Panthers (24) – Restricted FA
by CoachConnors on Nov 17, 2009 7:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I just looked at the QB rankings
There’s no way Snead is the number 2 QB in college football. I’ve watched 3 of his games this year. They’re using him to manage the game at this point, just trying to make sure he doesn’t lose. He has a good arm, and some good tools – but performance matters. I don’t think Snead is a 1st rounder at this point.
by Toddius on Nov 18, 2009 9:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Bear in mind, that board was from October 6th. Since then, he had the Alabama disaster (11/34, 4 INTs), the Auburn failure (16/35, 1 TD, 2 INTs), and this last week’s struggls against a solid Tennessee defense (13/20, 1 INT). It doesn’t get any easier; he faces a stout LSU defense this weekend. So yes, he’s definitely lost the pre/early season hype that was hoping he could transcend the losses of Mike Wallace and Michael Oher to the NFL and put together a good year.
You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In *St. Louis* his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well, *Steven Jackson* was the best.
by 3k on Nov 18, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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