0-5 teams should not play for OT

by VanRam on Oct 18, 2009 8:37 PM CDT Comment 35 comments

The Jacksonville Jaguars and Maurice Jones-Drew had the Rams right where they wanted them heading into OT.

How could this pass without comment? Why did St. Louis Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo and Co. decide to kick a 27-yard field goal with seven seconds left to play?

On the surface of it, with so little time they risked burning the clock on the third down play. Kick it, tie it, send it to overtime, so the thinking doubtlessly went. Clearly, they were willing to risk Jacksonville winning the toss. That showed a lot of faith in the defense, too much. The defense had been on the field for thirty-five minutes through the first four quarters of the game; even worse, the Rams defense was on the field for just almost 13 minutes of the second half. They had been getting railroaded as the game went on, letting Jacksonville go 72 yards in less than three minutes on the drive after Little's TD.

They should have gone for it.

With nine yards to go they could have left Jacksonville guessing. Sometimes you need, you want a win so badly. Teams that can finish drives and stop them can play for OT; winless teams heading into their 16th straight loss as a franchise, cannot play for OT. Spagnuolo et al got too conservative reaching for the win.

Poll

Should the Rams have gone for the TD or kicked the FG at the end of the 4th quarter?

FG, they made the right move

185 votes

TD, what did they have to lose

258 votes

443 votes | Poll has closed

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Yes

There is plenty of time to run another play. There was only 9 yards, you could have thrown a pass over the middle and still had time to kick the field goal with the timeout. It made no sense to me then and makes no sense to me now. Unless he was fearing a turnover, there was no reason to kick it then. Do you trust your offense not to make a turnover more than you trust your worn out defense to be able to make a stop in OT? Well you shouldnt.

Reserved-- been waiting 6 weeks to have this sig, I guess I can wait 1 more

by Carneros on Oct 18, 2009 8:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

exactly

what’s even worse is the rams ended the drive with a timeout in hand. seems like some better clock management could have won this game.

by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 18, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

with seven seconds to go on the jax 9

you HAVE to go for the win. the obvious concern was bulger taking too much time to make a play. you just have to trust him to not run down the clock there, tell him he has four seconds to find an open receiver and if he doesn’t see one, throw it through the end zone. as one of the few vets on the team, you have to trust bulger to be able to do that.

by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 18, 2009 8:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree Van.

I was watching the game with no sound and was completely confused. That’s why I asked in the game thread “what down is it?” since I knew I had to have had the down in my head wrong (thinking it was 3rd when it was actually 4th).

Should have gone for the TD. Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Oct 18, 2009 8:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

spags was correct

bulger should have had 2 picks on the last drive. rams could have had a sack or an interception. and burned out the clock. a potential of one positive result and several negatives, the decision to put the outcome with the defense rather than the offense was the correct call. the defense is actually becoming somewhat respectful, while the offense is a complete joke with donnie avery, much less without him. any of the other quality coaches in the league would have made the same call. good call, bad outcome!

by COACH M on Oct 18, 2009 9:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

no they wouldnt have

and if he if he was sacked we still had a timeout and still a makeable kick for Brown. You just have to trust your QB to be smart and put the ball where only his receiver has the chance to catch it in the endzone. Even just short of the endzone and try to get the YAC into the endzone because we still had a timeout

Reserved-- been waiting 6 weeks to have this sig, I guess I can wait 1 more

by Carneros on Oct 18, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any other quality coaches make the same call?

I’m not so sure. I’ve seen good coaches trust players comparable to Bulger and Jackson in similiar situations. I think this team needed the psychology of going for it more than they needed to play percentages. Maybe if we’re playing .500 ball, you’re right.

Lived in LA during the Rams and Raiders days. Now based in NorCal, I am still a die hard Rams fan and Raiders season ticket holder.

by CoachConnors on Oct 18, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, Van.

Just my 2 cents, I they should’ve gone for it and played to win because it shows confidence in your offense and is highly motivational. At this point, they could use a healthy dose of confidence. Even if you don’t make it, you have the feeling the coach believes in you and makes you play that much harder. One more L on record really doesn’t matter at this point but a W sure does.

I was right in that 24-ish points would have won this game but wrong in thinking that the Raiders are a worse team than the Rams. The Raiders Defense really came to play today and a GREAT football game broke out in Oakland. The Oakland D seperates these 2 teams.

Without having seen the Rams game, I’d say they need to get pissed off and decide they’ve had enough — like the Raiders did today. It was really something to see.

And if they had decided before the game that they had no chance against the Eagles, they would’ve been right. See that’s the thing, whether you decide you can or you can’t, you’re right.

Lived in LA during the Rams and Raiders days. Now based in NorCal, I am still a die hard Rams fan and Raiders season ticket holder.

by CoachConnors on Oct 18, 2009 10:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This game ended eerily reminiscent of the 2003 NFC Divisional Playoff

For those fans that may recall, our Rams finished off the regular season 12-4, had a 1st round bye and the 2nd seed. The Carolina Panthers came to town and were leading 23-20 with less than a minute to play in regulation, but we were deep in Panthers territory. Faulk made it down to like the 9 yard line and the Carolina defense was sucking wind and had bulging eyeballs from exhaustion. However, instead of trying a couple shots at the endzone to win it outright with star players like Faulk, Pace, Bruce, Holt, Curtis, and yes, even a young Marc Bulger, the wizardly Mike Martz sent out the FG unit to play for OT. We tied it alright; 23-23. The Carolina defense got a while to rest and recover. Each team moved the ball and missed long FG tries into the second OT. Then, as we had just moved into Carolina territory, Bulger was intercepted. On the next offensive play, Jake Delhomme hit Steve Smith on the run. Smith faked Jason Seehorn out of his socks and it was over 29-23. Goodbye SB chance.

Always play to win. Could you imagine the 1960s Packers or the Joe Montana led 49ers playing for a tie and the flip of a coin? We were 0-5 today. We had a timeout(s). With a little better clock management, what did we have to lose in going for a TD and the win???

by edpjr on Oct 18, 2009 10:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

(hides in a corner before saying this)

i completely agree.

by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 19, 2009 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It wasn't the next offensive play on which Smith scored

It was 3rd and long.

by WestCoastBuc on Oct 19, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My memory must be failing me...

by edpjr on Oct 19, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They made the right move

The defense is much more reliable. If we had gone for it,and failed …… Just my opinion but record doesn’t matter. The mere fact that we’re second guessing this decision means Spagnuolo would be corrrect in assuming his decisions will be scrutinized.

by dbcouver on Oct 18, 2009 11:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The defense is not much more reliable than a shot at the endzone.

You throw a smart pass, and its either a TD or an incompletion. If its an incompletion, you still get the field goal and you still go into OT. The defense had been reliable for most of the game, but the last few possessions they were getting killed.

Reserved-- been waiting 6 weeks to have this sig, I guess I can wait 1 more

by Carneros on Oct 19, 2009 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The reliable defense gave up 492 yards and 33 1st downs...

by edpjr on Oct 19, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

mostly due to inept offense 3 and outs

but I agree, we do need to improve.

"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi

by VTramsFan on Oct 19, 2009 6:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mostly due to a struggling secondary (even when there was plenty of pressure on the QB)

as well as injuries and fatigue (which was caused by the offense’s inability to stay on the field for more that 3 downs at a time.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Oct 19, 2009 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

MJD's 133 rushing yards and 3 TD's, by a tired defense that was on the field for twice as long as the offense, versus needing only one play for a couple of yards

I wouldn’t have thought the defense was going to be more reliable in OT.

Lived in LA during the Rams and Raiders days. Now based in NorCal, I am still a die hard Rams fan and Raiders season ticket holder.

by CoachConnors on Oct 20, 2009 1:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was at the game and was baffled by the Rams decision not to go for the TD

Either way, great game, great questions, thanks for the hospitality and hope you guys don’t join Detroit and Tampa

by FSBlueApocalypse on Oct 19, 2009 12:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If our punter Podlesh don't screw

that extra point at 7-6; the game would be different in the end (21-17-then The Rams must went for a TD) I curse that play, but in retrospect that was the key for winning the game. I agree, a TD would be a better choice, but can blame Spangnoulo to went for the FG. It was a close game (thanks to the -2 turnover ratio; and the picksix) I think the rams will be soon can win games like these. Don’t give up Rams fans, your defense showed signs; you have a fantastic RB. All you need some weapons, and defensive playmakers in the near future, and this team wll be much better!

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 19, 2009 1:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The right move but

i was wondering why we didn’t call timeout versus spiking the ball… we gave up a timeout and could have ran another play

"The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." - Vince Lombardi

by VTramsFan on Oct 19, 2009 6:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This is merely partially related

but, I was disappointed to head into overtime. The D had already been on the field way too much, and there’s no way to prevent the winning FG. Why even put the team in that situation?

I feel like the overtime rules would be better if a team had to win by 4 points.

THIS year's the year. I hope....

by thisguy on Oct 19, 2009 10:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

4 Points.....interesting.

I’ve never thought or heard of that idea.

Personally, the only change I’d make to the NFL rules is to keep it Sudden Death but only after each team has had one possession.

So, it wouldn’t matter who gets the ball first or if they score on their opening drive. Both teams get 1 shot at putting points on the board. After the 2nd team gets a shot, if one team has the lead, it’s over.

However, if it’s still tied after each team gets a possession, then the next team to score wins.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Oct 19, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i don't really care how they do it

but i agree that each team deserves to have at least one possession. it’s bogus that the teams play their guts out for 60 minutes only to have the game more or less decided by a simple coin flip. there’s got to be a better method than that.

by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 19, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it should've been left like it was in the 1960's...

If teams were tied at end of regulation, that’s the way the game was recorded. I recall one year the Rams were 11-1-2. Sudden death OT should be used only in the playoffs and SB.

by edpjr on Oct 19, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, but you've still got this goofy system where

one team can get the coin flip and the other team never touches the ball. Whether its in the playoffs or the regular season, I’d like to see it altered.

Granted, I wouldn’t be opposed to a defense stopping an offense before they reach field goal range…….

However, by no means would I like to see the college/high school format adopted. That’s as ridiculous as ending a hockey game in a shoot out.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Oct 19, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you

run something quick – 3 step drop and get the ball out on a line. Call your timeout immediately after the play if it’s complete and he doesn’t get in. If he does get in, you win. If not, there’s still a good chance you have a tick left to kick.

The Personal Finance Playbook.

by Toddius on Oct 19, 2009 12:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

by stlcardinalsfang on Oct 19, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Coach has no idea

once again the coach has no idea whats going on he should of gone for the win we have nothing to lose he defenitly the worst coach we have had and it is going to get worse he has no disipline no play calling ability nothing u go for the win always dont try and be conservative that why he sucks bring martz back and i bet we will score spags u suck u cant even win a game pack ur bags and get on bring us a real coach

by ANTHONY46 on Oct 19, 2009 3:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I was going to somewhat agree with you

until you said…

he defenitly the worst coach we have had

Nevertheless, I do agree that he should have gone for it, but from everything I’ve read by people in the game and people who cover the game, the reaction is pretty much split 50/50 on whether to go for it or kick the FG. So to say he has "no idea’ is, well first it’s an absolute statement like “worst” and I don’t think you can really make that statement for a number of reasons (i.e., Scott Linehan is one reason) and second it’s apparently going against some inner code these coaches have and live by.

Then, it’s totally undermined by the “awesomeness” that precedes the proclamation of “no idea” and “worst coach”…

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

by Tackle Box on Oct 19, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m out of breath just reading that. It’s ok to use periods and commas, my man.

Lived in LA during the Rams and Raiders days. Now based in NorCal, I am still a die hard Rams fan and Raiders season ticket holder.

by CoachConnors on Oct 19, 2009 4:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

THIS year's the year. I hope....

by thisguy on Oct 19, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

@ThisGuy -- Read your profile, was wondering...

I saw “Not a big fan of teams going on strike/lockout/whatever you want to call it”and was wondering what will your reaction will be if and when the NFL comes to a work stoppage, be it management lock out or union strike?

I think it’s likely. I hear all kinds of good things about the new NLFPA President but some fo the things he says are not good for the league or the fans…only the players. Maybe that can be rationalized as just doing his job, but nevertheless it’s pretty far away from what the owners are saying.

Lived in LA during the Rams and Raiders days. Now based in NorCal, I am still a die hard Rams fan and Raiders season ticket holder.

by CoachConnors on Oct 20, 2009 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs