The Begining of the Argument FOR Jim Haslett

by Tackle Box on Dec 15, 2008 11:56 AM CST Comment 14 comments

[Note by VanRam, 12/15/08 1:04 PM EST ] It's not often you hear the other side of the argument for Jim Haslett, with the Rams poor play. Though not the most popular position, it needs to be heard, and I'd like to thank long-time TSTer Tackle Box for his thoughtful consideration in defense of Haslett.

People here were clamoring for the young players to get some playing time, but what we see it they’re not any good either. Sure some are, but as you point out, most are bad. Heck, a lot of these guys aren’t good enough to be on practice squads of other teams, yet I’m supposed to hold Jim Haslett accountable for not winning football games with these losers? Please.

As you also pointed out, Incognito was a drive killing machine. Do you really think that’s a coaching issue? Have the coaches not informed him not to do stupid things on the field that will cost the team chances to continue drives (yesterday) or game winning field goal attempts? Is there a coach out there who could get it through that moron’s thick skull? I doubt it.

Is there a coach who can tell Darby to quit dropping passes and fumbling the ball?

There is so much incompetence on this team, I simply cannot hold Haslett accountable. It’s just 100% unfair to handcuff the guy with idiots, losers, and horrible players and then hold him accountable for not winning football games.

He and Billy Devaney deserve a chance to build this team. Give ‘em one year, and I bet you see an improvement. But, it’s gonna take more than one year. You just can’t cut a coach every time you have a bad season. Bryan Burwell made a great point in today’s column. He pointed to Jeff Fisher who was 1-5 as interim head coach with the Houston Oilers and then went on to have 4 straight losing seasons, but management stuck with him since they could see his vision and they understood that building a franchise that was in that much peril takes a long time.

This Rams team is much worse off than that Oilers team was when Fisher took over. You’ve got to give it time. 12 games isn’t nearly enough time to make a decision to cut Haslett. He and Devaney haven’t even had an offseason together to work on the roster. This is going to take time.

This is going to take time.

I keep saying that because I think a lot of people here are missing that point. Outside of Steven Jackson and Chris Long, I doubt any of the players currently under contract will be with this team when it’s gets good again. That kind of change doesn’t happen overnight and it isn’t going to happen if you keep switching coaches. If Devaney believes in Haslett then I trust him. Build a staff and then build the team.

There’s been so much dysfunction at Rams Park, the change must start there first and then on to the players. You need the right people making the decisions.

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I have to say I agree

Or, at the very least, I think the judgment of Haslett based on his personnel isn’t fair. Is he the coach for next year? If Billy DeVaney has faith in him and the get a deal done, then I’ll abide by that.

No matter who is brought in, though, he will have to deal with Bulger as his starting QB. And while the criticism might sound sour after his best game of the season, I still believe that we will not be able to return to winning form with him behind center. We need a guy who can turn in max effort more than twice a season.

If I’m Haslett, I would bring up the Jeff Fisher point. Don’t take the job without a multi-year commitment ~~- and not just a multi-year contract, but a commitment to building a plan and sticking with it. A one~~ or two-year deal with half of this dead wood still on the roster will be a job-killer. He’ll get Bugeled.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on Dec 15, 2008 1:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

oops

I don’t know how I got that strikethrough, but just pretend it isn’t there.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on Dec 15, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good to see I'm not the only one in the bandwagon

Just to make something clear about what I wrote. Just like taiko, I’m by no means saying Jim Haslett is the right man for the job. All I’m saying is, he might be but we’ll never know if we use this season to evaluate him.

And honestly, who would be the best guy for the job? Is there someone who exists?

What we need is a professional coach and general manager who are working together to build a franchise. You can talk all you want about what “kind” of coach we should have or from what side of the ball his expertise lies in or even his level of experience, but I don’t think that stuff is all that important.

Did Bill Belichick get smarter when the took over the Patriots? Not likely. But the organization was probably better suited and committed to implement his plan.

There are coaches out there who I don’t think all that highly of. I really don’t think Andy Reid is a very good head coach and I’m only recently starting to warm up to Jeff Fisher. I’ve never been impressed with Jon Gruden, either. I was skeptical for a long time about Tony Dungy. But there’s one thing all of these head coaches have that every head coach needs. A confident and cooperative front office. All of those coaches have coached stinker teams. But their bosses have had the confidence in them to right the ship. It could have been easy for Tampa Bay to dump Gruden a couple of years ago because, in all honesty, the team has not been nearly as good as it was in his first year as head coach. Instead, the franchises believed in the system the coaches had in place, and allowed that system to correct itself.

You never get anywhere in life or business by constantly changing your course. Granted, some courses are set awry from the get go, but that’s much tougher to do in the NFL than you might think. Guys like Gruden, Dungy, Reid, Fisher, and Belichick all have different backgrounds and different philosophies yet they aren’t all that different when you watch the games. What they also have in common is a system that has been proven to work and they never stray from it. Why can’t Haslett be just like that? In all honesty, he’s had a first chance (just like a lot of those guys mentioned above) and is now looking to implement what he’s learned. I think it’s worth it to see what an actual, professional NFL front office can accomplish. My instincts tell me a lot of people here and within the fan base have no idea how something like this is supposed to be run. When you’re raised in a dysfunctional family, you’re automatically going to think that’s normal. And that’s exactly what we’ve had in St. Louis for pretty much the entire life of the franchise (especially since Vermiel quit).

Let’s see what happens when Mom and Dad actually get along…

The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.

by Tackle Box on Dec 15, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Have to say I agree with a lot of the argument as well

Lots of very valid points in the argument TB.

I was not originally for Haslett long term due to his terrible defensive rankings as our DC before the interm tag but I have to admit that by the NE game I had started to sip some of the Haslett koolaid. The talent is not on par with NFL competition especially with Bulger looking like a latter day Jim Everett and all the injuries so the slide was inevitable regardless of who was HC.

I’m still not sold on Haslett long term but I am not sold on him not being the guy either. Time is needed and more importanty – better personell decisions are a MUST – from the draft to FA signings.

Outfielders For Sale! This weeks special...GMJ - see Tony for details!

by gorams77 on Dec 16, 2008 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry this if off-topic

put this is my first post here and I didn’t want to use a “fanpost” on this question.

I believe that the Rams are going to need to draft a QB and they should consider Matthew Stafford, from Georgia.

If the draft him, and allow Bulger one year to try and right the ship, what happens if they cut Bulger the following season? Do they take a huge cap hit? Would they be able to use some of his money to improve to offensive line via free agency?

Sorry to change the subject but with the team being so bad this year, I’m already starting to think about the draft.

www.salukihoops.com

by salukihoops on Dec 15, 2008 2:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

you should have used a fanpost for this question.

/sarcasm.

This has been a pretty common discussion over here… Check out this comment from Tackle Box on this post a few weeks ago.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on Dec 15, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Stafford

there’s definitely a case to be made for the Rams drafting a guy like that.

This is a discussion worth having it’s own fanpost.

by VanRam on Dec 15, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think the Lions might take him #1 overall

but if he’s still on the board- I say go ahead and draft him. If not, trade down and pick up an extra pick.

then try to improve O-Line in round 2, and get a Fullback and a player for the Secondary in rounds 3 and 4.

The rams 2nd rounder will be in the early 30’s so its practically a first rounder.

www.salukihoops.com

by salukihoops on Dec 15, 2008 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The key to this and the following years draft...

is to make a play where you feel you get the best QB.

IMO Bulger needs to go – whether it is this offseason or next due to his contract. So IF Stafford and/or Bradford declare early – then I think you need to get one of them if you can and play them behind Bulger if retained for the year befor handing them the reigns in 2010. IF Bradford doesn’t come out and you believe that he, Sanchez can be had next year then you wait till’10 and they are inserted into the starting lineup right away. Problem is for this year that both Det and KC need QB’s as well.

Assuming you are not able to get one of the 4 top rated QB’s coming out over this and the next year, then you need to make a call for top OL (more likely) or CB available and take a QB in the next rds (Freeman, Harrell, Painter, etc). Either way you slice it, a QB should be a priority. Much easier IMO to build your OL through FA then a QB.

That said – the Rams need to do much better with their drafting….

Outfielders For Sale! This weeks special...GMJ - see Tony for details!

by gorams77 on Dec 16, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Problem

IMO Bulger needs to go – whether it is this offseason or next due to his contract.

His contract is exactly why he won’t (and can’t) be moved for at least a year and probably two years.

by Tackle Box on Dec 16, 2008 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The decision remains the same...

You draft for the “premier” rated QB this yr and they sit behind Bulger next year to learn offense and NFL game OR you draft him in the 2010 draft and start them right away. Contract be damned, Bulger cant be the starting QB going into 2010. Cut, trade, or benched.

Outfielders For Sale! This weeks special...GMJ - see Tony for details!

by gorams77 on Dec 16, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Disclaimer

Sorry – I hate responding to my own post.

I guess “premier” is in the eye of the beholder but QB should be a priority this draft and next where the new coaching staff feels like they are getting their QB of the future. If that is in the 2nd rd (or later) but they still get their guy then so be it.

Outfielders For Sale! This weeks special...GMJ - see Tony for details!

by gorams77 on Dec 16, 2008 11:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bring back Chuck Knox

third times a charm

by Downing Rules on Dec 21, 2008 5:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I fully agree with your reasoning.

I don’t care if the best available option is Haslett, Ryan, Frazier, Schwartz, or random coach A. I am most interested in seeing an organization that is all pulling in the same direction. The amount of apathy and in-fighting that has gone on in this organization since the 2001 season (maybe before) has to come to an end if this team is going to become a viable playoff threat again.

I get the feeling that Mr. Shaw was hanging on more out of respect to Ms. Frontiere than any great desire to continue running the franchise. Now, with all due respect to the woman that returned a franchise to St. Louis, that situation is no longer applicable. Mr. Zygmunt became so enamored with his own power and ego that he allowed the house to fall down around him by pushing out an excellent football man in Charley Armey. Those two seemed to be enamored with the “next big thing” when it came to hiring coaches (Martz and Linehan), and the organization did not seem to have any idea how to draft once Armey was pushed out.

I think the process has started with the committment that Mr. Rosenbloom has shown. Mr. Devaney seems to be a dedicated football man with a clear vision of how to improve this organization. Let’s give him the opportunity execute his plan. If he believes Jim Haslett is the best available, interested coach to help turn this team, then, by all means, hire him to a 3-year contract. Give him time to mold the team to the style of football that he wants to play. Give him a full offseason to instill a winning attitude in these players that simply don’t seem to understand how to win.

by etp_stl on Jan 4, 2009 12:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs